Lombardi weighs in on team's moves and motives

[mgteich]

And you'd be an idiot for spending $5 MILLION for a blocking FB/TE. But, you'd get to laugh at how you screwed AD by only paying him $5M.

Something similar to this conversation probably has already taken place in the bowels of Gillette. I say use AD as a blocking FB/TE in goal line situations this year, lol.

 

[JMarr]

And you'd be an idiot for spending $5 MILLION for a blocking FB/TE. But, you'd get to laugh at how you screwed AD by only paying him $5M.

And that would make you an idiot for not knowing sarcasm when you see it. I'll put a or there for you next time.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The only question in my mind is what draft choice, if any, we will receive for Thomas. I would note, that there is also no advantage to cut him now, or at point before he is in camp risking injury. If appropriate, we can certainly wait until after the draft to trade him.

So if the Jets offer you a conditional 2011 pick (2nd through 6th depending on performance) for Thomas, do you make that deal?

 

[Ring 6]

This is a good point. I know the fans have jumped down AD's throat, but he never had any problems in Baltimore and he bought-in to BB's philosophy from day 1 with the Humble Pie t-shirts and such.

I think the reason he became upset with BB was probably because BB stopped using him as a pass rusher. He'd drop him into coverage and take him off the fields on 3rd downs a lot. I don't think AD is a bad seed, I think he was just frustrated with his role, and then that snowballed when the coming in late thing happened. I'm one of the biggest BB fans out there, but I think he mishandled this.

What did AD do/say that was so wrong? So what he had a little fun with the media. I know BB had supposedly given a speech about being more dedicated, but I don't think Adalius did anything wrong. He called or w/e to let the team know he was stuck in traffic and couldn't get there on time. Stuff like that happens all the time when it's snowing out. I think he was pissed that BB sent him home and used him as an example to send a message to the team.

Maybe he hasn't been the player we thought we were getting, and maybe his play has slipped a little as he's gotten older, but I don't think that he's a bad seed. I think he could still be a good contributor on D, especially at SILB, but I highly doubt AD would be willing to change positions if he is retained.

Come on.
Thomas 'became upset' at BB because Thomas was playing like crap and BB called him out.
What do we want now, **** McPherson for a coach?
The player plays like crap so the coach is supposed to ask him what he'd like to do so he can try a little harder, and build a defense on democracy?
This is one of the most ludicurous ideas I've seen in a long time.
Coaches need to direct, manage and DISCIPLINE players, not figure out how to make them happy.
We have now reached the point where people are criticizing Bill Belichick for not being Herman Edwards. This board is on tilt.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, if the alternative was paying Thomas $5M and using up a roster spot. I suggest that we will be able to get a 7th from someone other than the jets.

So if the Jets offer you a conditional 2011 pick (2nd through 6th depending on performance) for Thomas, do you make that deal?

 

[RobertWeathers]

So if the Jets offer you a conditional 2011 pick (2nd through 6th depending on performance) for Thomas, do you make that deal?

I'll answer. I do think AD has something left in the tank. I would do that deal. However, it would be based on % of snaps/stops, etc.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Come on.
Thomas 'became upset' at BB because Thomas was playing like crap and BB called him out.
What do we want now, **** McPherson for a coach?
The player plays like crap so the coach is supposed to ask him what he'd like to do so he can try a little harder, and build a defense on democracy?
This is one of the most ludicurous ideas I've seen in a long time.
Coaches need to direct, manage and DISCIPLINE players, not figure out how to make them happy.
We have now reached the point where people are criticizing Bill Belichick for not being Herman Edwards. This board is on tilt.

Are the Pats ever wrong in your eyes? You defend BB and the Pats non-stop. None of us were really complaining about Adalius until Zolak called him out and BB benched him vs Tennessee. People were calling Zo a moron and a hack that "knew what not getting it done" was all about b/c he sucked.

I had no problem with Belichick benching Thomas. But I think that planted the seed and then things got worse/more tense when Thomas was late to work that day. I think Belichick mishandled that. I don't think he should've sent those guys home. I never said I want BB to be like Herm Edwards, I just think he could've managed that particular situation better than he did. He wanted to send a message to the team, but I think it created more of a distraction than a positive experience.

 

[Ring 6]

Are the Pats ever wrong in your eyes? You defend BB and the Pats non-stop. None of us were really complaining about Adalius until Zolak called him out and BB benched him vs Tennessee. People were calling Zo a moron and a hack that "knew what not getting it done" was all about b/c he sucked.

I had no problem with Belichick benching Thomas. But I think that planted the seed and then things got worse/more tense when Thomas was late to work that day. I think Belichick mishandled that. I don't think he should've sent those guys home. I never said I want BB to be like Herm Edwards, I just think he could've managed that particular situation better than he did. He wanted to send a message to the team, but I think it created more of a distraction than a positive experience.

Well, lets see, signing Thomas looks like a poor move. I'm not defending that.
"None of us" is an odd comment to make. Did you think he was playing well before he got benched? I didnt. Oh, guess I cant say that because it isnt positive.

My comments have nothing to do with defending anyone or taking any side. Try to see the point instead of painting with a broad brush.

Players are accountable to doing what the coach tells them to do. Players who quit, give up, whine, *****, reduce their effort, show up late, take plays off, don't practice hard, etc, etc, etc are WRONG, and to blame the coach for doing something to cause that is crazy.

To defend the players uprofessional actions by saying that its the coaches fault for how he used the player is like blaing the rape victim for the rape. Thomas wasnt rushing the passer more becuase he was DOING A TERRIBLE JOB.
He played bad, got benched, whined, and you say he's not a bad guy he shouldn't have had consequences for playing bad because it might hurt his feelings.
I don't care who our coach is that is the wrong relationship to have.
Herman Edwards would do that, which is why he is unemployed.

 

[Frezo]

I don't know where people are getting this notion that Thomas is a bad seed. He didn't seem to have any problems in Baltimore. Not everyone is willing to become a complete automaton, which is what people here seem to demand of NFL players.

I would say we were all detached from his situation in Baltimore. IIRC Lewis called him a wimp or something to that effect after he left. The Pats also have a pretty good reputation for dealing with personnel problems with an exception being Thomas. What coach or GM wants a player that doesn't follow instructions to the letter? I do feel that the Pats could have used him more in the role he was best suited for coming out of the Ravens which was a pass rushing OLB. One doesn't have an engineer do the accounting because the accountant gets sick.

 

[Ring 6]

Are the Pats ever wrong in your eyes? You defend BB and the Pats non-stop. None of us were really complaining about Adalius until Zolak called him out and BB benched him vs Tennessee. People were calling Zo a moron and a hack that "knew what not getting it done" was all about b/c he sucked.

I had no problem with Belichick benching Thomas. But I think that planted the seed and then things got worse/more tense when Thomas was late to work that day. I think Belichick mishandled that. I don't think he should've sent those guys home. I never said I want BB to be like Herm Edwards, I just think he could've managed that particular situation better than he did. He wanted to send a message to the team, but I think it created more of a distraction than a positive experience.

And I do defend BB, because he is the best in the business.
Unlike others, I do not feel the need to stretch things into an unfounded criticism of him, because I can not imagine anyone doing a better job than him from 2000 until today.
If you ask me for a specific judgment on a specific decision I will give it, but if you try to pretend you know what goes in his his head, players heads,the lockerroom, the front office, the meeting with players, coaches, Kraft, scouts, etc, or what his relationship is with any player, you are simply guessing.
You are guessing that Thomas played poorly because he was taken off the field more, and guessed that BB didn't communicate that, that you wouldn't send them home, without a clue whether there had been warnings or repeated offenses (which I have heard there were) or whether BB had just talked to Thomas about being more committed to his play, etc, etc, etc.
You have created a scenario out of thin air to absolve the player based on events you have no clue happened, all with the result of trashing BBs management of the player and the situation.
Of course I will defend him against that, he deserves it.
Gvie facts without made up potential events, nonevents, thoughts inside someones head, and feelings, and you won't be outting yourself in a position of trashing someone unfoundedly.

 

[Ring 6]

I would say we were all detached from his situation in Baltimore. IIRC Lewis called him a wimp or something to that effect after he left. The Pats also have a pretty good reputation for dealing with personnel problems with an exception being Thomas. What coach or GM wants a player that doesn't follow instructions to the letter? I do feel that the Pats could have used him more in the role he was best suited for coming out of the Ravens which was a pass rushing OLB. One doesn't have an engineer do the accounting because the accountant gets sick.

He didnt have any problems here until his play, and theoretically his effort fell off the table.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

And I do defend BB, because he is the best in the business.
Unlike others, I do not feel the need to stretch things into an unfounded criticism of him, because I can not imagine anyone doing a better job than him from 2000 until today.
If you ask me for a specific judgment on a specific decision I will give it, but if you try to pretend you know what goes in his his head, players heads,the lockerroom, the front office, the meeting with players, coaches, Kraft, scouts, etc, or what his relationship is with any player, you are simply guessing.
You are guessing that Thomas played poorly because he was taken off the field more, and guessed that BB didn't communicate that, that you wouldn't send them home, without a clue whether there had been warnings or repeated offenses (which I have heard there were) or whether BB had just talked to Thomas about being more committed to his play, etc, etc, etc.
You have created a scenario out of thin air to absolve the player based on events you have no clue happened, all with the result of trashing BBs management of the player and the situation.
Of course I will defend him against that, he deserves it.
Gvie facts without made up potential events, nonevents, thoughts inside someones head, and feelings, and you won't be outting yourself in a position of trashing someone unfoundedly.

I know for sure that no one could have possibly done a better job than Belichick in the past decade. I'm not a person who is very critical of BB, but I do think Thomas was "potentially" mishandled based on what we know. Is that better wording for you?

I never said that Thomas played poorly b/c he was taken off the field more. I said I believed his being taken off the field more and deactivation vs Tenn (without BB telling him in person, supposedly) was something that built up some tension with Belichick and planted a seed. I think the being sent home thing pushed the relationship to the brink, especially when Thomas talked about in-house problems with the media. We are all guessing. No one knows what truly goes on behind closed doors in NE. That's why I sort of defended Thomas. How do people on this board know that he is such a bum and has character flaws? They don't, they are just making judgments from what has gone on in the media, and they are entitled to that. I gave my opinion/guess on why the relationship with BB and Adalius soured. The point is, everything with the Thomas situation is a guessing game. We do not know when all of this began, what was said, etc. It does appear though that it all came to a head when he was late to work, and he spoke out about it with the media and was deactivated for the Panthers game.

 

[Frezo]

He didnt have any problems here until his play, and theoretically his effort fell off the table.

What happened to his effort? One of BB's strong coaching points is his ability to get max effort from his players regardless of their talent level. For some reason the Thomas signing went awry. I'm not comfortable placing all of the blame on Thomas.

 

[emoney_33]

What happened to his effort? One of BB's strong coaching points is his ability to get max effort from his players regardless of their talent level. For some reason the Thomas signing went awry. I'm not comfortable placing all of the blame on Thomas.

Want a crazy theory?

Thomas came in here in 2007 with a big contract and high opinion of himself. He got to be here for 2 years with Vrabel and Bruschi busting BB's chops and getting away with it. AD places himself alongside or above the talent level of those guys and believes he has right to bust chops or criticize or whatever else happens behind closed doors and in the meetings. BB doesn't feel he has earned that type of respect and does not take it the same as he did with Vrabes and Bru. AD feels slighted and tensions rise. etc...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Want a crazy theory?

Thomas came in here in 2007 with a big contract and high opinion of himself. He got to be here for 2 years with Vrabel and Bruschi busting BB's chops and getting away with it. AD places himself alongside or above the talent level of those guys and believes he has right to bust chops or criticize or whatever else happens behind closed doors and in the meetings. BB doesn't feel he has earned that type of respect and does not take it the same as he did with Vrabes and Bru. AD feels slighted and tensions rise. etc...

That is crazy. I like it.

My crazy theory is that after AD broke his arm, they expected him to come back and play with it. He busted it in early Nov and they didn't IR him until mid/late Dec.

 

[captain stone]

So if the Jets offer you a conditional 2011 pick (2nd through 6th depending on performance) for Thomas, do you make that deal?

No conditional pick. Either they give us their 3rd-rounder this year or their 2nd-rounder next year. Otherwise, the jesters can s**k my d**k.

 

[Ring 6]

I know for sure that no one could have possibly done a better job than Belichick in the past decade. I'm not a person who is very critical of BB, but I do think Thomas was "potentially" mishandled based on what we know. Is that better wording for you?

I never said that Thomas played poorly b/c he was taken off the field more. I said I believed his being taken off the field more and deactivation vs Tenn (without BB telling him in person, supposedly) was something that built up some tension with Belichick and planted a seed. I think the being sent home thing pushed the relationship to the brink, especially when Thomas talked about in-house problems with the media. We are all guessing. No one knows what truly goes on behind closed doors in NE. That's why I sort of defended Thomas. How do people on this board know that he is such a bum and has character flaws? They don't, they are just making judgments from what has gone on in the media, and they are entitled to that. I gave my opinion/guess on why the relationship with BB and Adalius soured. The point is, everything with the Thomas situation is a guessing game. We do not know when all of this began, what was said, etc. It does appear though that it all came to a head when he was late to work, and he spoke out about it with the media and was deactivated for the Panthers game.

My point is that it is the responsibility of the player to do what is asked of him, not the responsibility of the coach to placate the player.
I cannot fathom a circumstance, other than something just bizarre, that would justify a player doing what Thomas did, and making it the coaches fault. If that were realistic teams would be in anarchy. These players have been taught their entire life to follow authority, coaches cannot have their authority quesitoned, no matter what.

 

[Ring 6]

What happened to his effort? One of BB's strong coaching points is his ability to get max effort from his players regardless of their talent level. For some reason the Thomas signing went awry. I'm not comfortable placing all of the blame on Thomas.

Why not? His effort is his responsibility.
You cannot hold a coach responsible for a player pouting when the coach aptly reduces his playing time when he plays poorly. None of those facts are in question. Are you saying it was BBs job to persuade Thomas to want to do his job, and that is a good quality for a player? I dont buy that.

 

[Frezo]

Want a crazy theory?

Thomas came in here in 2007 with a big contract and high opinion of himself. He got to be here for 2 years with Vrabel and Bruschi busting BB's chops and getting away with it. AD places himself alongside or above the talent level of those guys and believes he has right to bust chops or criticize or whatever else happens behind closed doors and in the meetings. BB doesn't feel he has earned that type of respect and does not take it the same as he did with Vrabes and Bru. AD feels slighted and tensions rise. etc...

It could've gone down that way. It also could've been:
"C'mon coach. Turn me loose once in a while. I see openings. I can get to the QB. It's what I'm best at."
"Sorry AD. That's not my system. You'll be in the exact place your teammates expect you to be in. You only rush when told to."
It's a classic case of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. What stinks most is they are stuck with two more years of this at 11 mil. At that price any trade partner will be expecting to rid themselves of a player of similar salary. There is also the question of whether Thomas is worth that money to another team regardless of a trade.

 

[Frezo]

Why not? His effort is his responsibility.
You cannot hold a coach responsible for a player pouting when the coach aptly reduces his playing time when he plays poorly. None of those facts are in question. Are you saying it was BBs job to persuade Thomas to want to do his job, and that is a good quality for a player? I dont buy that.

As a manager it's my responsibility to have people under my position to be part of the team concept. When one isn't I have ways to change that because it benefits the whole. Not everybody is going to be a good dog because of their personality make up. It's not the job of the employer to cater to the demands of the employee, but a good employer will be responsive to the desires of the employee. Maybe BB did go out of his way to appease Thomas, maybe he didn't. We'll likely never know. Not knowing what takes place behind closed doors, I'll sit on the fence regarding this. I do know one fact. Right now there is a wasted 11 mil of future moneys sitting in Foxboro.