Lombardi weighs in on team's moves and motives

[Clonamery]

:youtheman:

Well, here at Staff College we want to learn from failure, whether that's free agent failure (Adalius), trade failure (Burgess) or draft failure (Chad Jackson). The assigned question was: which strategy is best?, but, of course, it's an impossible question. The obvious truth is that if you execute any of them badly you will fail. As for the options that BB should consider, the only rational answer is: all of the above.

However (and seriously for a minute) if I were the coach of the Patriots, the thing that I would be doing immediately was getting in touch with Adalius Thomas.

SCENE ONE
AD: Yeah, what?
BB: Adalius, this is Bill Belichick.
AD: Uh, Coach -- what's up?
BB: I'm doing fine, thanks. I'm not going to ask you what you're doing, because I know. You're sitting on your couch in your living room. And do you want to know how I know? That's because I'm sitting at the end of your driveway.
AD: Uh, so why are you here?
BB: It's not because I want to see how many Ferraris you've bought with all that money we dumped in your lap, it's because we need to talk, just the two of us -- no Bart Scott, no Rex Ryan, just us.

SCENE TWO
AD: All right, what have you got to say?
BB: See, Adalius, it's quite simple. You think that by being a pain in the butt, talking to reporters, stirring things in the locker room, you're going to shoot your way out of town. But you signed a contract, buddy, and so, take it from me, it's not going to happen that way. Believe me. I know. It's my decision. So what we have to talk about is this. What sort of a career do you want in New England? If it hasn't happened the way that you wanted, why not? How can we make it work better? If you and I can find a way to do that, let's start here today. If not ... well you'll just have to get used to living in the dog house ...

How it would really go.....

SCENE ONE
AD: Yeah, what?
BB: Adalius, this is Bill Belichick.
AD: "click".......dial tone

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

:youtheman:

Well, here at Staff College we want to learn from failure, whether that's free agent failure (Adalius), trade failure (Burgess) or draft failure (Chad Jackson). The assigned question was: which strategy is best?, but, of course, it's an impossible question. The obvious truth is that if you execute any of them badly you will fail. As for the options that BB should consider, the only rational answer is: all of the above.

However (and seriously for a minute) if I were the coach of the Patriots, the thing that I would be doing immediately was getting in touch with Adalius Thomas.

SCENE ONE
AD: Yeah, what?
BB: Adalius, this is Bill Belichick.
AD: Uh, Coach -- what's up?
BB: I'm doing fine, thanks. I'm not going to ask you what you're doing, because I know. You're sitting on your couch in your living room. And do you want to know how I know? That's because I'm sitting at the end of your driveway.
AD: Uh, so why are you here?
BB: It's not because I want to see how many Ferraris you've bought with all that money we dumped in your lap, it's because we need to talk, just the two of us -- no Bart Scott, no Rex Ryan, just us.

SCENE TWO
AD: All right, what have you got to say?
BB: See, Adalius, it's quite simple. You think that by being a pain in the butt, talking to reporters, stirring things in the locker room, you're going to shoot your way out of town. But you signed a contract, buddy, and so, take it from me, it's not going to happen that way. Believe me. I know. It's my decision. So what we have to talk about is this. What sort of a career do you want in New England? If it hasn't happened the way that you wanted, why not? How can we make it work better? If you and I can find a way to do that, let's start here today. If not ... well you'll just have to get used to living in the dog house ...

As Shakespeare never said, 'if you don't play ball with me you don't play ball, but I'll pay you anyway.' Perhaps it loses something in the translation, but I question if management and wannabe big labor are going to connect & clarify with each other anytime soon. Afailius (if I may continue to enjoy my first childhood pending arrival of the second) appears to now be looking for a specific role, whereas it appeared he was signed to be a generalist in the Mike Vrabel fashion. Assigning him to the specific role of his choice presumes he would succeed at that role, which the most recent data brings into doubt.

There is also the all important locker room dynamic, we have already observed a surprise release, which SMY's sources attribute to a purge of lethargy and negativity. The tea leaves would suggest there's a parallel.

Unquestionably a willing Afailius contributes much to restoring defensive glory, unfortunately, willing is wanting. With the real dearth of talent in this free agency, I think it's reasonable to presume there will be a market for Afailius, the elusive part for fans, and probably the Patriots too, is whom might that trade partner be, and what goodies do they dangle in return?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

How it would really go.....

SCENE ONE
AD: Yeah, what?
BB: Adalius, this is Bill Belichick.
AD: "click".......dial tone

Exactly, because if Bill hasn't been able to get through to this egoist after two years of having his locker room leaders conduct attitude adjustment workshops behind the practice bubble woodshed, AD would assume he could get any pertinent information that call might entail from his Agent (am I going to NY for a reunion or did the SOB ship me to the NFC for a bag of balls...).

Bill tells his players that his door is always open. AD has not only chosen not to persue a one on one to clear the air, he says there is no reason too. I think he's right. AD is more comfortable grousing about Bill behind his back or thru the media. So as Bill so often says, it is what it is...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Sorry in advance, but yeah, that's why BB traded away our 3rd and 5th this year for Burgess and opted to take Oakland's 2011 1st instead of this year's. (and please don't go into the possible rookie salary cap thing.) Also, don't drink the koolaide that's being sold about this year's draft class being so deep--only time will tell on that one.

The choice was never 2010 1 v. 2011 1; BB would not have turned down a 2010 1 if he had been offered one.

Al Davis didn't want to cough up their 2010 2, so he offered up 2011 1 instead.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick can indeed insist that Thomas play for the patriots for only $4.9M for the 2010 season and only $5.9M for the 2011 season.

So, if this power of forcing AD to play of only $4.9M make us think that belichick has all the cards, so be it.

 

[Ring 6]

The choice was never 2010 1 v. 2011 1; BB would not have turned down a 2010 1 if he had been offered one.

Al Davis didn't want to cough up their 2010 2, so he offered up 2011 1 instead.

When the trade was made it was reported that the Raiders offered the 2010 #1 and BB turned it down for the 2011, for obvious reasons. Those reasons being that the 2011 draft will have a cap on those rookies contracts that is enormously lower than what you will have to pay 2010 picks.
BB wouldnt want a top 5 pick in 2010, because the cost is stupid and its hard to trade out of and get anything of real value. The Raiders 1 in 2011 will be a hot commodity.
Where did you get your version?

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick can indeed insist that Thomas play for the patriots for only $4.9M for the 2010 season and only $5.9M for the 2011 season.

So, if this power of forcing AD to play of only $4.9M make us think that belichick has all the cards, so be it.

I dont get what we would gain by paying him to not play. It seems that his playing days here are over, what is the advantage of sticking it to him?

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry in advance, but yeah, that's why BB traded away our 3rd and 5th this year for Burgess and opted to take Oakland's 2011 1st instead of this year's. (and please don't go into the possible rookie salary cap thing.) Also, don't drink the koolaide that's being sold about this year's draft class being so deep--only time will tell on that one.

I do think it's possible that on some level BB regrets the way he built the 2007 team (signing the top FA on the market, plus trading for two premier players). Aside from the fact that AD ended up backfiring, the 2007 team was all about the Brady/Moss/Welker show. That team steamrolled everyone so badly that any deficiences we had on defense were never exposed and never addressed. And the biggest problem with the reliance on Brady/Moss/Welker to bludgeon everyone in the passing game is that, as we've seen, any one of the three goes down and basically, season ovah.

"That rookie salary cap thing" is the entire reason for the decision, so you cant answer that question without going into that.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I ws all set to post a 3 page master's thesis on this, but no one would notice most likely.

It's not either or though. Bargain basement FAs who fit "our system" and the draft SHOULD be the way the team builds. The draft has been bad, and the FAs are either garbage (Beisel) or too high priced.

So where from here? Develop the players we have. Let crable, wheatley, and butler play. And draft some good players instead of LBs who were backups on their team in the 7th round.

 

[emoney_33]

Draft picks are important, either by infusing talent by drafting good players or trading them for talented players (Welker, Moss, etc.).

If you go look on the roster, most of the players were drafted by the team or traded for. FA is really not a good way to build a team.

FA is how the team won in 2001, 2003 and 2004. If that's not a good way to build the team, perhaps using more of the bad way is in order?

There's no backtracking at all. As I've noted, if you weren't so gung ho to see everything as anti-Patriot, you'd be better off. You'll notice that, in the post above you, the person I'd originally responded to clarified his position, and explained that he was referring to Daniel Snyder style. Once we get that clarification, I'm in agreement with that poster:

Exhibit A of the Deus double-standard. You want everyone that disagrees with you to only discuss the EXACT statements you make, yet your "defense" of making the above "patently absurd" statement is that you misunderstood PATRIOTS-80... REALLY??

PATRIOTS-80 did not say "you should sign 0 FA". However your statement and than justification of the statement indicates that is what you felt he was saying. You either screwed up and can't admit you were wrong or intentionally chose your words to stir up controversy with an obviously ridiculous statement.

And then to top it all off you pull out the homer card in a discussion that was based on WHICH move of the FO were MORE responsible for the dominance? Seriously? Andy is just looking for anti-patriots stuff in your posts yet it is YOU who threw up this ad-hominem homer bull based on a discussion that had nothing to do with anything that could be construed as homer.

My enjoyment of this board is almost non-existent since you decided that you shall proclaim what is right, have no obligation to defend your point, and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of having no integrity in their post, that they simply have an agenda, because who could honestly disagree with anything the great Dues Irae says.
Your arrogance is ruining this board for me.

Seconded

 

[mgteich]

There is no advantage. If the team thinks that we will get anywhere near $5M of play from Thomas, then he should stay. However, I don't think that there is ANYONE (including Belichick and Thomas) who thinks that Thomas is worth $5M to the patriots for his 2010 services.

The only question in my mind is what draft choice, if any, we will receive for Thomas. I would note, that there is also no advantage to cut him now, or at point before he is in camp risking injury. If appropriate, we can certainly wait until after the draft to trade him.

I dont get what we would gain by paying him to not play. It seems that his playing days here are over, what is the advantage of sticking it to him?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Exhibit A of the Deus double-standard. You want everyone that disagrees with you to only discuss the EXACT statements you make, yet your "defense" of making the above "patently absurd" statement is that you misunderstood PATRIOTS-80... REALLY??

PATRIOTS-80 did not say "you should sign 0 FA". However your statement and than justification of the statement indicates that is what you felt he was saying. You either screwed up and can't admit you were wrong or intentionally chose your words to stir up controversy with an obviously ridiculous statement.

And then to top it all off you pull out the homer card in a discussion that was based on WHICH move of the FO were MORE responsible for the dominance? Seriously? Andy is just looking for anti-patriots stuff in your posts yet it is YOU who threw up this ad-hominem homer bull based on a discussion that had nothing to do with anything that could be construed as homer.




Seconded

but what about someone ...... like you ..... who is clearly a homer?

 

[Frezo]

There is no advantage. If the team thinks that we will get anywhere near $5M of play from Thomas, then he should stay. However, I don't think that there is ANYONE (including Belichick and Thomas) who thinks that Thomas is worth $5M to the patriots for his 2010 services.

The only question in my mind is what draft choice, if any, we will receive for Thomas. I would note, that there is also no advantage to cut him now, or at point before he is in camp risking injury. If appropriate, we can certainly wait until after the draft to trade him.

AT $5 this year and $6 the next, what team would want that contract for a problem child that even the Pats couldn't straighten out? I see him sticking around for awhile. IMO only a team desperate from a LBer injury would take the risk. (and the Jets of course)

 

[Deus Irae]

AT $5 this year and $6 the next, what team would want that contract for a problem child that even the Pats couldn't straighten out? I see him sticking around for awhile. IMO only a team desperate from a LBer injury would take the risk. (and the Jets of course)

I don't know where people are getting this notion that Thomas is a bad seed. He didn't seem to have any problems in Baltimore. Not everyone is willing to become a complete automaton, which is what people here seem to demand of NFL players.

 

[captain stone]

Uh oh; now you've done it...

 

[captain stone]

There is also the all important locker room dynamic, we have already observed a surprise release, which SMY's sources attribute to a purge of lethargy and negativity. The tea leaves would suggest there's a parallel.

May I ass-ume that you're referring to the Chris Baker release? And if I'm correct, do you happen to have a link to that story?

 

[RobertWeathers]

May I ass-ume that you're referring to the Chris Baker release? And if I'm correct, do you happen to have a link to that story?

I second that request. 1st I'm hearing of Baker being Mr. Negativity.

 

[Ring 6]

We need to prevent players from quitting on the field by asking them what they would like to do so we can keep them happy and have 11 players out there having fun. After all, winning isn't that important as long as players are allowed to play the way they want to.

 

[JMarr]

=Mike the Brit;1751514BB:

See, Adalius, it's quite simple. You think that by being a pain in the butt, talking to reporters, stirring things in the locker room, you're going to shoot your way out of town. But you signed a contract, buddy, and so, take it from me, it's not going to happen that way. Believe me. I know. It's my decision. So what we have to talk about is this. What sort of a career do you want in New England? If it hasn't happened the way that you wanted, why not? How can we make it work better? If you and I can find a way to do that, let's start here today. If not ... well you'll just have to get used to living in the dog house ...

Something similar to this conversation probably has already taken place in the bowels of Gillette. I say use AD as a blocking FB/TE in goal line situations this year, lol.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I don't know where people are getting this notion that Thomas is a bad seed. He didn't seem to have any problems in Baltimore. Not everyone is willing to become a complete automaton, which is what people here seem to demand of NFL players.

This is a good point. I know the fans have jumped down AD's throat, but he never had any problems in Baltimore and he bought-in to BB's philosophy from day 1 with the Humble Pie t-shirts and such.

I think the reason he became upset with BB was probably because BB stopped using him as a pass rusher. He'd drop him into coverage and take him off the fields on 3rd downs a lot. I don't think AD is a bad seed, I think he was just frustrated with his role, and then that snowballed when the coming in late thing happened. I'm one of the biggest BB fans out there, but I think he mishandled this.

What did AD do/say that was so wrong? So what he had a little fun with the media. I know BB had supposedly given a speech about being more dedicated, but I don't think Adalius did anything wrong. He called or w/e to let the team know he was stuck in traffic and couldn't get there on time. Stuff like that happens all the time when it's snowing out. I think he was pissed that BB sent him home and used him as an example to send a message to the team.

Maybe he hasn't been the player we thought we were getting, and maybe his play has slipped a little as he's gotten older, but I don't think that he's a bad seed. I think he could still be a good contributor on D, especially at SILB, but I highly doubt AD would be willing to change positions if he is retained.