Lombardi: Seymour's not looking for a contract, he's just pissed.

[shmessy]

Come on Shmessy. Players want to win. They know BB will put them in the best position to do that. That's why they come here. Period. I think you know that.

I was in a senior level management position with my last company and we hired a medical director with a serious Napoleon complex. The guy had all the skills, abilities, and "championship" experience but he was a flat out jerk. He treated people like **** and managed through fear. We let him go because after lengthy debate we felt he didn't fit with the company's values i.e. he treated people badly. IMO it's pretty naive to think some of Bill's decisions with regard to his treatment of people hasn't had Kraft reaching for the Alka Selzter.

I understand what you are saying AM. However, my guess is your company let that guy go not because he was a meanie, but becuase his awful people skills were bound to hurt the bottom line.

Once again, watch the interviews with Hobbs, Milloy, Law, McGinest, Woody, etc. Not one of them, in retrospect, say things about BB that you say about that Medical Director.

Cold hearted? Yes. Awful to be around? Haven't heard one player ever say that.

 

[shmessy]

On Raiders.net forum they are saying that Seymour thought his agent was working out a long term deal with the Pats and then next thing he knew he gets traded. Could he be having second thoughts?.....

Too late, Richard.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not taking sides, but you came real close to saying that without exactly saying it. Your words: "The Patriots demand absolute loyalty and return the favor by showing most players absolutely no loyalty at all."

DI, I think the Patriots are a very loyal team. Many have given plenty of examples why. It's easy to listen to the brilliant media and say 'oh, the Patriots must not be loyal'. Sometimes we all have to step back, assess the facts, and figure out that they are wrong.

I'll summarize like this: All teams can either choose to re-sign players or not. All teams can choose to trade players or not. All teams do that, as much, if not more than the Patriots. The Patriots are a high profile, Super Bowl winning team, and the masses know the players. So when the team says, appreciate what you are asking for, but that's too rich for our blood, they get slammed for it. History shows in most cases these decisions have turned out to be the right decision. We, as fans, should be happy about that. Those that are jealous say it's disloyalty, because it's a free shot.

Let me ask it this way: If overpaying for players past their prime makes a team loyal, that's your opinion. However, it probably makes them a losing loyal team.

The Lions gave Woody what he wanted. They have been since, one of the worse NFL teams in the league. The Jets gave Ty Law what he wanted. They have been one of the worse teams in the NFL since then. Ty Law was converted to safety, last year had zero interceptions, and this year NOBODY even wants him. The Browns gave McGinist what he wanted, and are on their 2nd head coach since then. This year nobody has signed McGinist, and he will be most likely "retired" soon. Playoff team Seattle gave Branch what he wanted, and have arguably been on the decline since.

They offered to pay many of these players alot of money. They took more to go elsewhere, and those teams were since seen to have overpaid. If that's disloyalty, I really hope the Patriots keep doing it.

Again, that is NOT disloyalty. It's called having a clue.

You're confusing paying money, often below what would be earned on the open market, with loyalty. They are not the same thing.

I have no problem with the team offering less money than other teams. I do have a problem with people bashing the players when they go elsewhere as a result, especially when you're talking about a team that's as famous for jettisoning its players as any team in the league.

 

[mgcolby]

Come on Shmessy. Players want to win. They know BB will put them in the best position to do that. That's why they come here. Period. I think you know that.

I was in a senior level management position with my last company and we hired a medical director with a serious Napoleon complex. The guy had all the skills, abilities, and "championship" experience but he was a flat out jerk. He treated people like **** and managed through fear. We let him go because after lengthy debate we felt he didn't fit with the company's values i.e. he treated people badly. IMO it's pretty naive to think some of Bill's decisions with regard to his treatment of people hasn't had Kraft reaching for the Alka Selzter.

Player after player talks about how the reputation doesn't fit the man. AD comes to mind and how he always heard BB was a jerk etc... yet when he actually met him, he found out the opposite was true.

You seem to be equating decisions made in the best interest of the football team with how BB treats his players on a personal level. Outside of Bledsoe I can't think of a player that claime BB to be anything but a great coach and mentor. Being a cold calculating business man, doesn't mean he is a cold hearted prick. And someone in a senior management position should know this.

 

[shmessy]

You're confusing paying money, often below what would be earned on the open market, with loyalty. They are not the same thing.

I have no problem with the team offering less money than other teams. I do have a problem with people bashing the players when they go elsewhere as a result, especially when you're talking about a team that's as famous for jettisoning its players as any team in the league.

They don't pay less money than other teams. They spend right up to the cap every year.

They DISTRIBUTE cap space amongst the roster differently than most teams. Once again for you, Deus, this is the NFL, not MLB.

BTW, ever stop to wonder why Patriot FO personnel are so much in demand from other teams these days?

 

[Absurdly Metro]

I understand what you are saying AM. However, my guess is your company let that guy go not because he was a meanie, but becuase his awful people skills were bound to hurt the bottom line.

Once again, watch the interviews with Hobbs, Milloy, Law, McGinest, Woody, etc. Not one of them, in retrospect, say things about BB that you say about that Medical Director.

Cold hearted? Yes. Awful to be around? Haven't heard one player ever say that.

Fair enough. Well said.

BTW... Who do you get when you take on BB's persona minus the football acumen and resume?


answer: Eric Mangini

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

On Raiders.net forum they are saying that Seymour thought his agent was working out a long term deal with the Pats and then next thing he knew he gets traded. Could he be having second thoughts?.....

Sounds like Richard needs a new agent.

 

[Bostonian1962]

You're confusing paying money, often below what would be earned on the open market, with loyalty. They are not the same thing.

I have no problem with the team offering less money than other teams. I do have a problem with people bashing the players when they go elsewhere as a result, especially when you're talking about a team that's as famous for jettisoning its players as any team in the league.

You lost me there. Are you saying the Patriots are disloyal, in that they bash players when they go elsewhere? Also, I list players that took more money to go elsewhere. You reply that you have no problem with the Patriots offering less money, but say that they are famous for jettisoning it's players as any team in the league. Which is it? Are they being disloyal and "jettisoning" their players. Or, are you O.K. with their approach. Very confusing response.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You lost me there. Are you saying the Patriots are disloyal, in that they bash players when they go elsewhere? Also, I list players that took more money to go elsewhere. You reply that you have no problem with the Patriots offering less money, but say that they are famous for jettisoning it's players as any team in the league. Which is it? Are they being disloyal and "jettisoning" their players. Or, are you O.K. with their approach. Very confusing response.

He's just doing what he accuses the rest of us of, moving the goalposts. He was mad at the FO but now he's mad at the fans. I think he's just mad, period.

 

[Deus Irae]

You lost me there. Are you saying the Patriots are disloyal, in that they bash players when they go elsewhere? Also, I list players that took more money to go elsewhere. You reply that you have no problem with the Patriots offering less money, but say that they are famous for jettisoning it's players as any team in the league. Which is it? Are they being disloyal and "jettisoning" their players. Or, are you O.K. with their approach. Very confusing response.

No, now you're confusing the my point out the Patriots with my point about the fans.

 

[Deus Irae]

He's just doing what he accuses the rest of us of, moving the goalposts. He was mad at the FO but now he's mad at the fans. I think he's just mad, period.

I'm not mad at the front office. I wasn't mad at the front office before. I don't like the trade, because I'd rather have Seymour this year and a 3rd in 2011 than no Seymour this year and a 1st in 2011, but that has nothing to do with my defense of Seymour regarding the claimed desire to get every possible dollar in his next contract.

No goalposts were moved, no anger was involved.

 

[spacecrime]

The Patriots demand absolute loyalty and return the favor by showing most players absolutely no loyalty at all.

Why wouldn't players look to get the money at some point?

No reason at all. They have every right and many of them do go for the highest dollar available. No one would bleme Seymour if he left the Pats nextyear of teh Raiders offered him more money. Did anyone blame Ted Washington?

At the same time, when a player makes he clear he is more about the money than anything else, when he repeatedly says, "It's not personal, it's business and I have to look out for myself," (which he has every right to do), then he has no ***** coming when the team does what it has to do for itself.

Sorry, Seymour has no ***** coming. He made is bed. Time to lie down in it. In Oakland.

Nothing wrong with what Seymour did, nothing wrong with what the Pats did.

 

[Ring 6]

Why? I wasn't claiming that Seymour had shown any loyalty.

You said they demand absolute loyalty and dont give any back.
That implies that you mean dont give any back WHEN THE GET THE LOYALTY THEY DEMAND, because it would be ignorant to criticize the team for not being loyal to a player who didnt give the loyalty they asked for.

 

[Ring 6]

No reason at all. They have every right and many of them do go for the highest dollar available. No one would bleme Seymour if he left the Pats nextyear of teh Raiders offered him more money. Did anyone blame Ted Washington?

At the same time, when a player makes he clear he is more about the money than anything else, when he repeatedly says, "It's not personal, it's business and I have to look out for myself," (which he has every right to do), then he has no ***** coming when the team does what it has to do for itself.

Sorry, Seymour has no ***** coming. He made is bed. Time to lie down in it. In Oakland.

Nothing wrong with what Seymour did, nothing wrong with what the Pats did.

That is the irony in the argument. Seymour would have left as a free agent after this year. There is no doubt at all. So how are the Patirots acting disloyally by getting something for the player who was certain not going to be loyal 6 months from now.

 

[Ring 6]

Fair enough. Well said.

BTW... Who do you get when you take on BB's persona minus the football acumen and resume?


answer: Eric Mangini

That is the most ignorant statement Ive seen in a terribly long time.
You have never met either person, yet you have decided to accuse one of being an @ss by comparing him to the other.
I know someone very well who is as close to Mangini as virtually anyone outside his family. And I can tell you that you know absolutely nothing about Eric Mangini the person.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This thread reminds me of the special olympics.

even if you win...

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Typical Richard Seymour

If you really believe that, you should turn off the television and find another way to pass your time.

I'm surprised to hear someone say this. Maybe before the 2004 season, but not after. Were you a Pats fan then? Check out the contributions of Green who filled in for Seymour during the stretch run and 2004 playoffs.

Before that season, I would have said that Seymour was indespensible to the Pats. When Seymour and Law were out the last few games and the playoffs, many thought the Pats were done. But they won a superbowl.

Not saying that Green is better than Seymour. But I am saying that no one person makes the team. Not even Brady. BB doesn't call that time out as Cassel sneaked for a first against the Colts, and we're in hte playoffs and who knows?

Good players are better than bad players, but the team is the most important thing.

 

[Frezo]

This thread reminds me of the special olympics.

There aren't enough parking spaces.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

That is the most ignorant statement Ive seen in a terribly long time.
You have never met either person, yet you have decided to accuse one of being an @ss by comparing him to the other.
I know someone very well who is as close to Mangini as virtually anyone outside his family. And I can tell you that you know absolutely nothing about Eric Mangini the person.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em Andy. If having a personal relationship with NFL players and coaches (or knowing someone who does) was a prerequisite to posting opinions on a football messageboard I guess it'd just be you and the crickets fighting it out here everyday.

And if you think I'm the first guy to perceive Mangini as a wannabe BB clone then you're Rip Van Winkle.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...

I have no problem with the team offering less money than other teams. I do have a problem with people bashing the players when they go elsewhere as a result

...

i'll stay out of whatever argument you're having there, but I completely agree with your points above. i sometimes get amazed at how quick some folks are to give away the money that players might be able to command; "it's only a few mill less--he should be willing to take a cut so he can stay in Foxboro and show loyalty to the Patriots;" "only a few mill less?" that's a lot of money.

these guys are in the entertainment business and are trying to monetize a set of skills that have a relatively short shelf life and that diminish (ever more rapidly) with time. why shouldn't they get what they can get when they can get it?

i have no problem with the pats being rational (by their lights) in how they pay, release and trade people, i have no problem with players who walk because they don't think the pats are offering enough and i also have no problem that Richard Seymour is ticked off at how this worked out for him.