Lombardi on Seymour trade

[MoLewisrocks]

Maybe, if the Patriots are really, really lucky, the pick they got from the Raiders can be used to get a Richard Seymour kind of talent.



Oh, wait............

Why not, it represented tremendous value for the first 4 years. Although not nearly enough to warrant $30M over the last 3.

 

[Deus Irae]

On the cheap compared to paying Seymour? Of course it will happen.

No pick, not even the first pick in the draft, will cost more than Seymour would. And Seymour is not likely to give 6 years of All-pro effort.

Everyone, probably even NEM, has acknowledged that the Pats cannot pay both SEymour and WIlfork, and that of the two, Wilfork is the more valuable. Add all the complaints about our D over the last two-three years, and the effect that one top-ten pick had, I am amazed that anyone would not like to trade a year of Seymour for 5-6 years of hot new DL talent to pair with Wilfork.

Some of us actually think things through before just genuflecting in the general direction of Bill Belichick. When we do that, we realize the problems with this trade. Those of you who prefer to just drop to your knees in homage and chug the Koolaid without bothering to check on it first are free to do so.

By the way, you should check into the numbers that those top picks got. You end up paying top dollar for hopes and prayers.

One of the amusing ironies of all this is watching people who were defending the Patriots not getting a first round pick for Cassel, and who were defending the way the team dropped down out of the first round in the last draft, both on money arguments, are now trying to act as if the money of a top pick is no big deal. So, thanks for that chuckle.

The Koolaid crew has been a seemingly bottomless supply of irony and humor when it comes to this trade.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Some of us actually think things through before just genuflecting in the general direction of Bill Belichick. When we do that, we realize the problems with this trade. Those of you who prefer to just drop to your knees in homage and chug the Koolaid without bothering to check on it first are free to do so.

By the way, you should check into the numbers that those top picks got. You end up paying top dollar for hopes and prayers.

One of the amusing ironies of all this is watching people who were defending the Patriots not getting a first round pick for Cassel, and who were defending the way the team dropped down out of the first round in the last draft, both on money arguments, are now trying to act as if the money of a top pick is no big deal. So, thanks for that chuckle.

The Koolaid crew has been a seemingly bottomless supply of irony and humor when it comes to this trade.

Your insight into football is pretty good. Unfortunately your insight into people and their motivations is not. Lumpin most people into a group, and arguing with them as though they share all the opinons of that group is not a good thing.

Oh, BTW, most fans of other teams and analysts are calling this great value for Sey. I'm pretty sure most of them aren't drinking the Kool-Aide.

 

[Deus Irae]

Your insight into football is pretty good. Unfortunately your insight into people and their motivations is not. Lumpin most people into a group, and arguing with them as though they share all the opinons of that group is not a good thing.

Oh, BTW, most fans of other teams and analysts are calling this great value for Sey. I'm pretty sure most of them aren't drinking the Kool-Aide.

1.) Most people are rating this trade based upon it being the Patriots and the Raiders. Anyone who takes the time to think about it in a rational, objective manner, sees the inherent issues in the trade. Some still favor it, and others don't. The key point is that all it takes is a moment of rational thought to see the potential negatives of this deal. Unfortunately, far too many people are like the current idiot caller on the radio, who's citing Seymour's never having double digit sacks as some proof that he's "one of the most overrated Patriots players ever". The willingness to blindly follow BB and to just chuck former players on to the trash pile the moment they're no longer a part of the team is simply something I refuse to participate in.

2.) Nobody I've seen who is worth reading or listening to has suggested, for even a moment, that this deal doesn't hurt the Patriots this season.

3.) Your comment about motivations is wrong, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[flasox27]

Kraft and BB are smarter than you give them credit for. The draft pick is in the 2011 draft when a cap on the draft picks salary is likely so the cost for the high picks isn't as exhorbitant as it its now. Otherwise the Pats will just trade down as they did when they got Mayo.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

1.) Most people are rating this trade based upon it being the Patriots and the Raiders. Anyone who takes the time to think about it in a rational, objective manner, sees the inherent issues in the trade. Some still favor it, and others don't. The key point is that all it takes is a moment of rational thought to see the potential negatives of this deal. Unfortunately, far too many people are like the current idiot caller on the radio, who's citing Seymour's never having double digit sacks as some proof that he's "one of the most overrated Patriots players ever". The willingness to blindly follow BB and to just chuck former players on to the trash pile the moment they're no longer a part of the team is simply something I refuse to participate in.

2.) Nobody I've seen who is worth reading or listening to has suggested, for even a moment, that this deal doesn't hurt the Patriots this season.

3.) Your comment about motivations is wrong, and I'll leave it at that.

I never suggested that trading Seymour doesn't make the Patriots defense a little weaker this year. See what I mean?

 

[Deus Irae]

I never suggested that trading Seymour doesn't make the Patriots. See what I mean?

I never said you did. You're reading into my posts. I'm not reading into yours.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I never said you did. You're reading into my posts. I'm not reading into yours.

Oops, I misread this statement
"Nobody I've seen who is worth reading or listening to has suggested, for even a moment, that this deal doesn't hurt the Patriots this season."

Misread, not read into. My bad.

 

[shmessy]

By the way, you should check into the numbers that those top picks got. You end up paying top dollar for hopes and prayers.

2011. Go ahead and plan on the draft slot rules being exactly what they are today.

Keep buying stocks based on what they did YESTERDAY.

Too many Americans do that. It's why we'll have to learn Chinese soon.

BB plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers. Evidently, you're a huge checkers fan.

 

[shmessy]

1.)
2.) Nobody I've seen who is worth reading or listening to has suggested, for even a moment, that this deal doesn't hurt the Patriots this season.

Of course it hurts the Patriots THIS season.

If they gave the Raiders a ham sandwich on rye with nothing immediate for return, the organization would have been lessesned by a ham sandwich on rye.

In the meantime, the Patriots are VERY deep on the DL. Seymour, while still a very good (though not as great as he was 4 years ago) player ids not a MUST on the Patriots DL at this time.

Immediate gratification is the realm of Daniel Snyder. I get to watch that up close here in Maryland. It's hugely entertaining.

 

[Deus Irae]

2011. Go ahead and plan on the draft slot rules being exactly what they are today.

Keep buying stocks based on what they did YESTERDAY.

Too many Americans do that. It's why we'll have to learn Chinese soon.

BB plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers. Evidently, you're a huge checkers fan.

The last time I checked, there was no rookie pay scale in the NFL. You are both speculating on Belichick's motivations and assuming that the owners will get their way with this when they get a new CBA. I'm doing neither, because I don't presume to have the inside knowledge about either situation. Due to my lack of psionic powers, I usually try to leave that sort of thing to you and the rest of the mind readers.

It's not a matter of chess v. checkers, as anyone who knows anything about Boston sports should know. Feel free to go ask the Bruins how 'anticipating' the outcome of a CBA worked out with regards to the salary cap.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course it hurts the Patriots THIS season.

If they gave the Raiders a ham sandwich on rye with nothing immediate for return, the organization would have been lessesned by a ham sandwich on rye.

In the meantime, the Patriots are VERY deep on the DL. Seymour, while still a very good (though not as great as he was 4 years ago) player ids not a MUST on the Patriots DL at this time.

Immediate gratification is the realm of Daniel Snyder. I get to watch that up close here in Maryland. It's hugely entertaining.

There is nobody on the Patriots defensive line that currently even approaches the overall talent and impact of Seymour. However, I love the immediate gratification line. It'll make everyone who's pissed off about 2007 feel much better to know that putting off that gratification will really help come 2013-2014 when the first rounder gotten in this trade really starts having a major impact. Why worry about winning Super Bowls in 2009 when you can draft someone to help ease Brady into his NFL dotage in 2011?

 

[Fencer]

That was one 2nd not two.

I was giving an example of what "based on" might mean.

 

[shmessy]

The last time I checked, there was no rookie pay scale in the NFL. /QUOTE]

Once again, the draft pick is for TWO YEARS HENCE.

It doesn't matter a hill of beans, the LAST time you checked what the scale IS.

Once again, keep playing checkers, someday you'll learn chess.

 

[vyrago]

Lombardi says the exact thing that always comes to mind when I think of Seymour - when he was on/motivated/whatever, he was a force out there. But many games he seemed totally invisible as well. I could usually tell early in the game; Seymour would be in the offensive backfield all the time on his 'good' days, it seemed.

I don't know for sure the problem was entirely Seymour's motivation either; maybe it was the scheme the Pats were playing vs some opponents, maybe it was the opposing OL, who really knows. But his play seemed awfully inconsistent to me.

I suppose this has been speculated on in one of the 200 other Seymour threads, but could big Sey be one of the players Hobbs was talking about who faked injuries?

 

[shmessy]

The Feel free to go ask the Bruins how 'anticipating' the outcome of a CBA worked out with regards to the salary cap.

Are you kidding???????

The BRUINS???????

You're comparing Jeremy Jacobs to Bob Kraft in the brains department????????

Thanks for the entertainment!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh geez, Deus, I guess since Jeremy Jacobs (or whoever the "genius" is on Causeway street who turned the Boston Bruins from the #1 most beloved team in Boston into an organization that garners a little more interest than the Northeastern Huskies football team) got singed, then Kraft doesn't have a chance!!!!

Thanks for that!!!!

 

[shmessy]

However, I love the immediate gratification line. It'll make everyone who's pissed off about 2007 feel much better to know that putting off that gratification will really help come 2013-2014 when the first rounder gotten in this trade really starts having a major impact.

You must have been a joy to be around the day Milloy got cut.

At least this time, the Patriots are actually going to get something.

And, yes, they are STILL the favorites to win the Super Bowl this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

The last time I checked, there was no rookie pay scale in the NFL.

Once again, the draft pick is for TWO YEARS HENCE.

It doesn't matter a hill of beans, the LAST time you checked what the scale IS.

Once again, keep playing checkers, someday you'll learn chess.

And you keep ignoring the point of my posts. How cute!

 

[everlong]

Seymour is playing for a contract which means he is going to be seriously motivated. So at least for one year the Raiders are going to reap the benefits of this deal.

Here's the interesting thing. It's been rumored Seymour won't report. He has little leverage in this matter but he might push the issue to get one of two things. An extension or more preferable an agreement that the Raiders won't franchise him. The Raiders almost certainly want to extend him but would be foolish to do so now IMO. I'd get the production first then franchise him if it comes down to it. With the possibility of a lockout it saves them from a big signing bonus. If they agree not to franchise him they are bigger idiots than I thought because he, and I would too, is going to bolt ASAP rather than be in football Siberia. Certainly Samuel and Briggs have done it but that was at the end of rookie deals not after a trade.

It would be classic if he bolted and the Raiders gave up a first rounder and gained a third round for one year of service.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If he's right, it also completely undercuts all the claims that the 2011 pick was based on the likelihood of a rookie pay scale, or that it shows that the Pats expect a lockout.

Or, for that matter, that the Pats were demanding a 1.