LOL, Indy and New York media dog the Patriots

[He Ban Me]

It IS truly hilarious. "Pats overpaid free agents", "Pats pannicking". Puhlease. Thomas took LESS money to play for this organization. Moss was for a fourth round pick and he also gave up $20 odd million bucks. These guys are ridiculous. Not kidding, who is going to cover our receivers in Indy? In NY? Nobody. We ought to score 50 points on both of them...

Moss had 17milin guarantees coming from Oakland?? Not trolling, just curious what the actual correct number is. Because I just find it tough to belive that he left 17mil hanging.

BTW, for a 4th rounder? Why not do it? At worst, it'll cost 3mil, correct? You guys have it, go for it. Dillon worked, so maybe Moss can too.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

Cap Hits (courtesy of Miguel)

$3,406,720 - A. Thomas
$2,773,386 - D. Stallworth
$2,306,720 - K. Brady
$1,706,720 - W. Welker
$1,350,000 - T. James

Plus around 3 million for Moss. Somewhere in the ballpark of 14-15 mil on the cap for 6 guys? Damn. We sure overpaid for them.

- ha ha hilarious! I couldn't agree more...

I mean guys, lets face it, they are jealous and scared. Again, who gives a rip what the media says, a lot of them have little to no credibility. #12, go out and get us 'the next one"...I am already putting cash aside for my new Big Screen TV...damn!!

 

[cblesz]

Moss had 17milin guarantees coming from Oakland?? Not trolling, just curious what the actual correct number is. Because I just find it tough to belive that he left 17mil hanging.

BTW, for a 4th rounder? Why not do it? At worst, it'll cost 3mil, correct? You guys have it, go for it. Dillon worked, so maybe Moss can too.

No. Not guaranteed as nothing but bonus money is. But, he was due $9 odd million next year and almost $11 million the following year in salary. That is $20 million that he basically gave up for a one year $3 mill deal...

AND, you are going to see this happen for the next several years. Good players are going to take less to play in New England for a chance at a ring.

 

[He Ban Me]

No. Not guaranteed as nothing but bonus money is. But, he was due $9 odd million next year and almost $11 million the following year in salary. That is $20 million that he basically gave up for a one year $3 mill deal...

AND, you are going to see this happen for the next several years. Good players are going to take less to play in New England for a chance at a ring.

OK, ty.

You mean good players like Branch?

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, ty.

You mean good players like Branch?

Kindly show me where he said 100% of all good players will take less to play in New England.....

 

[PatsFanInVa]

He's definitely right, to judge from this offseason: we've seen good players doing just that. I don't think it necessarily continues. It is a moment in time. We have always gotten something like this effect, to one extent or another. The Moss move, on Randy's part, was an extreme example, on the face of it. But he was not getting that salary either way; bonus money already paid on that contract is pro-rated courtesy the Oakland Raiders, unless we agree to help them pay that down, off our own cap. Once details are in, we will see them. Evidently, Oakland built in 9-10M/year in salary, at least in part as incentive to make Randy act right. Randy was looking to get that money, elsewhere - or, get half that much here. Last year, Seau referred to NE as graduate school in the NFL. To judge from this moment in time, there are those who call us "cheap," and others who say we're the place to be if you're serious about winning.

I don't know that you can project that anti-competitive (in monetary terms) player bias continuing in future years. I think it spiked this off-season. It's beautiful, but we can not expect it to be of this magnitude -- or for that matter, to necessarily continue at all -- in future years.

PFnV

 

[He Ban Me]

He's definitely right, to judge from this offseason: we've seen good players doing just that. I don't think it necessarily continues. It is a moment in time. We have always gotten something like this effect, to one extent or another. The Moss move, on Randy's part, was an extreme example, on the face of it. But he was not getting that salary either way; bonus money already paid on that contract is pro-rated courtesy the Oakland Raiders, unless we agree to help them pay that down, off our own cap. Once details are in, we will see them. Evidently, Oakland built in 9-10M/year in salary, at least in part as incentive to make Randy act right. Randy was looking to get that money, elsewhere - or, get half that much here. Last year, Seau referred to NE as graduate school in the NFL. To judge from this moment in time, there are those who call us "cheap," and others who say we're the place to be if you're serious about winning.

I don't know that you can project that anti-competitive (in monetary terms) player bias continuing in future years. I think it spiked this off-season. It's beautiful, but we can not expect it to be of this magnitude -- or for that matter, to necessarily continue at all -- in future years.

PFnV

^^^What he said^^^

 

[Bostonian1962]

You have to admit, if the Colts or Jets were as successful this offseason as the Pats have been we'd be spinning it the same way.

I live in Skins Nation, and there is a huge difference with the Skins and the Pats.

First, for what it's worth, the Skins have made many "use to be's" or "never were's" the highest paid players at their positions. They have not looked to fit what the team does. It's been more like a fantasy football, overpay for the biggest name, not necessarily the best players.

O. Thomas took less than the 9ers were willing to pay him to come here. Moss was willing to tear up his contract and take less to play here. Stallworth was offered more to play with the Eagles, but wanted to play in New England. These players aren't going for the biggest paycheck like these Skins' fantasy football players. They're here to WIN! Big difference!

Deion Sanders, David Patten, Fauria, and many, many more Skins signing were on the definite down slopes of their careers. O Thomas is in his prime. Ditto Stallworth, Washington, Welker, Morris et al. Big Difference!

No comparison, but I understand the need to make ones selves feel better. The best team in football over the last 6 or 7 years is as deep as they've ever been, and the rest of the league doesn't like it one bit.

 

[ClevTrev]

He's definitely right, to judge from this offseason: we've seen good players doing just that. I don't think it necessarily continues. It is a moment in time. We have always gotten something like this effect, to one extent or another. The Moss move, on Randy's part, was an extreme example, on the face of it. But he was not getting that salary either way; bonus money already paid on that contract is pro-rated courtesy the Oakland Raiders, unless we agree to help them pay that down, off our own cap. Once details are in, we will see them. Evidently, Oakland built in 9-10M/year in salary, at least in part as incentive to make Randy act right. Randy was looking to get that money, elsewhere - or, get half that much here. Last year, Seau referred to NE as graduate school in the NFL. To judge from this moment in time, there are those who call us "cheap," and others who say we're the place to be if you're serious about winning.

I don't know that you can project that anti-competitive (in monetary terms) player bias continuing in future years. I think it spiked this off-season. It's beautiful, but we can not expect it to be of this magnitude -- or for that matter, to necessarily continue at all -- in future years.

PFnV

Good post and good points!

I, too, live in 'Skinsville, and was listening to the sports radio talking heads in the weeks prior to the draft. They ALL hold up the Pats as THE model franchise for building a solid team. They were fantasizing that Snyder might take on that approach the other day.

Yes, the media in NY and Indy are skewed. NY just wants a winner from the Jests in the worst way. Their sensibilities are gone at this point. Indy is scared, as they now need to prove they're a good team by repeating. That's always difficult in the NFL, particularly when you have every other team raiding the cupboard for UFAs that have rings and demand more money than the cap-strapped Colts can afford. It's rough being in the spotlight!

I find it humorous that anyone can criticize the Pats for picking up Moss and Meriweather. If you look at these moves in pure economic terms with the league cracking down on bad behavior, I contend that this is the best time to acquire any talented player with a history of behavior problems. The league has made strong statements and will now back any team having player indiscretions. NE is extremely smart in that they have not risked anything major in either salary, bonus, or years in Moss. If he's a good citizen, it's a win-win. If he's not, the team and league move in to fix the situation. These guys are sharp and know how and when to invest in something of value where other teams will balk.

That being said, I refuse to get involved in any SB talk regarding the current team. The NFL is a tough league where things on a team can change overnight.

 

[DW Toys]

You have to admit, if the Colts or Jets were as successful this offseason as the Pats have been we'd be spinning it the same way.

I live in Skins Nation, and there is a huge difference with the Skins and the Pats.

First, for what it's worth, the Skins have made many "use to be's" or "never were's" the highest paid players at their positions. They have not looked to fit what the team does. It's been more like a fantasy football, overpay for the biggest name, not necessarily the best players.

O. Thomas took less than the 9ers were willing to pay him to come here. Moss was willing to tear up his contract and take less to play here. Stallworth was offered more to play with the Eagles, but wanted to play in New England. These players aren't going for the biggest paycheck like these Skins' fantasy football players. They're here to WIN! Big difference!

Deion Sanders, David Patten, Fauria, and many, many more Skins signing were on the definite down slopes of their careers. O Thomas is in his prime. Ditto Stallworth, Washington, Welker, Morris et al. Big Difference!

No comparison, but I understand the need to make ones selves feel better. The best team in football over the last 6 or 7 years is as deep as they've ever been, and the rest of the league doesn't like it one bit.

Have to say for limited DC the Skins did o.k. The Dolphins are the new WTF team in the draft. Used to be the Bills. Bills did a good job in 2007 too.
DW Toys

 

[fair catch fryar]

As for the NY media.....who gives a sh%t what they think! Bob Kravitz of the Indystar is a two-bit hack "Ron Borges" wannabe! His own readers at the Indystar dog him all the time!

 

[coltsfan]

Those smack of two things:

Fear and frustration. Nothing more.

No, all it is is a dumb Indy sportswriter. Everyone has them.

 

[NEPat]

I don't have much issue with the indystar column. They won and they can talk. It is also well disguised as a "different approaches of the two teams" discussion. Of course you could say that you'd expect this stuff from fans and not a reporter.

The "Mangini's footsteps" comment is downright hilarious. You'd think the Jets actually challenged NE last year. The Jets outperformed everyone's expectations going from 4-12 to 10-6 and Mangini did a wonderful job, but they lost the division by 2 games and got trounced in the playoffs. The Jets were clearly not in NE's class last year, and NE has done a remarkable job improving itself.

Yup, great points. Indy can be snide if they want to be, they're the champs and beat the Pats on the way, so they can say whatever they like, they're entitled.

But give me a break on the Mangini footsteps, New York. Listen, I think the Mangini-Belichick soap opera is a lot of fun, but let the Jets challenge the Pats first before we're talking about the Pats making moves to beat the Jets. Right now they're making moves with a mind to beat the other AFC elite, like the Colts and Chargers. Calm down now.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Good post and good points!

I, too, live in 'Skinsville, and was listening to the sports radio talking heads in the weeks prior to the draft. They ALL hold up the Pats as THE model franchise for building a solid team. They were fantasizing that Snyder might take on that approach the other day.

Yes, the media in NY and Indy are skewed. NY just wants a winner from the Jests in the worst way. Their sensibilities are gone at this point. Indy is scared, as they now need to prove they're a good team by repeating. That's always difficult in the NFL, particularly when you have every other team raiding the cupboard for UFAs that have rings and demand more money than the cap-strapped Colts can afford. It's rough being in the spotlight!

I find it humorous that anyone can criticize the Pats for picking up Moss and Meriweather. If you look at these moves in pure economic terms with the league cracking down on bad behavior, I contend that this is the best time to acquire any talented player with a history of behavior problems. The league has made strong statements and will now back any team having player indiscretions. NE is extremely smart in that they have not risked anything major in either salary, bonus, or years in Moss. If he's a good citizen, it's a win-win. If he's not, the team and league move in to fix the situation. These guys are sharp and know how and when to invest in something of value where other teams will balk.

That being said, I refuse to get involved in any SB talk regarding the current team. The NFL is a tough league where things on a team can change overnight.

Talked about exactly this, last week - people were calling the lower rounds "the felony rounds" because this year everyone is so gunshy about character.

That gives NE another kind of capital to spend, that of having a "clean" team going in. When we picked Merriweather, one of the ESPN guys said its a great pick for NE... but Cincinatti (for example) couldn't have made that pick.

The common thread is that the Pats are masters at evaluating the impact of a new NFL phenomenon, and assessing what effect that has on their always-fluid capital and evaluation. So basically, we had instant capital, because we could "get away" with moves others couldn't. The media are dogging us for making that trade and that pick? That means we've used capital others don't have. Point is, we can survive this heat for the moves. Cinci could not.

But the real beauty isn't that we traded for Moss. Anybody could do that. The real beauty is that Moss identified NE as the place to go. Maybe a pay cut would have come anywhere, but I really believe GB was set to pay him in the neighborhood of his contract's stated salary. Moss himself said he wouldn't take a cut anywhere else. That effect is another kind of capital. And it's fleeting, as is anything else in this league.

Last point: when would you make these moves, now when we've just been through salary cap inflation, and people are catching up to the implications thereof, or in five years, when the "New Order" is set in stone, and people are used to double the money Moss was originally asking for? This is separate and apart from whether you take a cut to come here - this has to do with when you start edging up the salaries and "buy in now." Problem is, as always, you do a one-year deal to indemnify yourself from risk, but then you don't get the full benefit of "locking in" with a player.

We'll see how we negotiate with all these guys next offseason... of course, it will be tougher if the infusion of all this talent results in another...

(shhhhhhhhhh.)

:rocker:

PFnV

 

[He Ban Me]

As for the NY media.....who gives a sh%t what they think! Bob Kravitz of the Indystar is a two-bit hack "Ron Borges" wannabe! His own readers at the Indystar dog him all the time!

^^^This is true^^^


Occassionally writes a decent article, but for the most part he's a tool.

 

[TripleOption]

OK, ty.

You mean good players like Branch?

Branch already had his 2 rings.

 

[ClevTrev]

Talked about exactly this, last week - people were calling the lower rounds "the felony rounds" because this year everyone is so gunshy about character.

That gives NE another kind of capital to spend, that of having a "clean" team going in. When we picked Merriweather, one of the ESPN guys said its a great pick for NE... but Cincinatti (for example) couldn't have made that pick.

The common thread is that the Pats are masters at evaluating the impact of a new NFL phenomenon, and assessing what effect that has on their always-fluid capital and evaluation. So basically, we had instant capital, because we could "get away" with moves others couldn't. The media are dogging us for making that trade and that pick? That means we've used capital others don't have. Point is, we can survive this heat for the moves. Cinci could not.

But the real beauty isn't that we traded for Moss. Anybody could do that. The real beauty is that Moss identified NE as the place to go. Maybe a pay cut would have come anywhere, but I really believe GB was set to pay him in the neighborhood of his contract's stated salary. Moss himself said he wouldn't take a cut anywhere else. That effect is another kind of capital. And it's fleeting, as is anything else in this league.

(shhhhhhhhhh.)

:rocker:

PFnV

That's why I believe NE is peerless in understanding where the true value exists at any given time.

It's true, the Bengals and Titans and some others would not have been able to bring in Meriweather without a firestorm erupting. While NE was questioned, the reputation developed over the past seven years always forces any criticism to be qualified because it is NE.

Recognizing the opportunity of trend changes and relative worth enables this team to leverage value in advance of other teams. While I agree that it would be nice to lock up players at the moment value is moving from low to high, it's still a risk. The Pats are willing to go for shorter time frames and bet they will be able to effectively replace value at any given time. I believe they've proven they're more adept at this approach than any other team in the league.

So, while many in the local and national media express negativity & shock at the Meriweather & Moss moves made over the weekend, the Pats are simply executing the plan they recognized would most effectively improve the team at this time with the least amount of risk based on the most current trends in the NFL.

Gotta love this team!

 

[AzPatsFan]

He's definitely right, to judge from this offseason: we've seen good players doing just that. I don't think it necessarily continues. It is a moment in time. We have always gotten something like this effect, to one extent or another. The Moss move, on Randy's part, was an extreme example, on the face of it. But he was not getting that salary either way; bonus money already paid on that contract is pro-rated courtesy the Oakland Raiders, unless we agree to help them pay that down, off our own cap. Once details are in, we will see them. Evidently, Oakland built in 9-10M/year in salary, at least in part as incentive to make Randy act right. Randy was looking to get that money, elsewhere - or, get half that much here. Last year, Seau referred to NE as graduate school in the NFL. To judge from this moment in time, there are those who call us "cheap," and others who say we're the place to be if you're serious about winning.

I don't know that you can project that anti-competitive (in monetary terms) player bias continuing in future years. I think it spiked this off-season. It's beautiful, but we can not expect it to be of this magnitude -- or for that matter, to necessarily continue at all -- in future years.

PFnV

It will continue only if the Patriots continue to win Super Bowls. It won't continue if all they do is come close.

The 49er dynasty extended for several years as Carmine was able to import stars to add to the dominant 49ers. (Oh, and lie about the cap, as well)

 

[jczxohn1]

I find it humorous that anyone can criticize the Pats for picking up Moss and Meriweather. If you look at these moves in pure economic terms with the league cracking down on bad behavior, I contend that this is the best time to acquire any talented player with a history of behavior problems. The league has made strong statements and will now back any team having player indiscretions. NE is extremely smart in that they have not risked anything major in either salary, bonus, or years in Moss. If he's a good citizen, it's a win-win. If he's not, the team and league move in to fix the situation. These guys are sharp and know how and when to invest in something of value where other teams will balk.

Talked about exactly this, last week - people were calling the lower rounds "the felony rounds" because this year everyone is so gunshy about character.

That gives NE another kind of capital to spend, that of having a "clean" team going in. When we picked Merriweather, one of the ESPN guys said its a great pick for NE... but Cincinatti (for example) couldn't have made that pick.

The common thread is that the Pats are masters at evaluating the impact of a new NFL phenomenon, and assessing what effect that has on their always-fluid capital and evaluation. So basically, we had instant capital, because we could "get away" with moves others couldn't. The media are dogging us for making that trade and that pick? That means we've used capital others don't have. Point is, we can survive this heat for the moves. Cinci could not.
Last point: when would you make these moves, now when we've just been through salary cap inflation, and people are catching up to the implications thereof, or in five years, when the "New Order" is set in stone, and people are used to double the money Moss was originally asking for? This is separate and apart from whether you take a cut to come here - this has to do with when you start edging up the salaries and "buy in now." Problem is, as always, you do a one-year deal to indemnify yourself from risk, but then you don't get the full benefit of "locking in" with a player.
PFnV

That's why I believe NE is peerless in understanding where the true value exists at any given time.

It's true, the Bengals and Titans and some others would not have been able to bring in Meriweather without a firestorm erupting. While NE was questioned, the reputation developed over the past seven years always forces any criticism to be qualified because it is NE.

Recognizing the opportunity of trend changes and relative worth enables this team to leverage value in advance of other teams. While I agree that it would be nice to lock up players at the moment value is moving from low to high, it's still a risk. The Pats are willing to go for shorter time frames and bet they will be able to effectively replace value at any given time. I believe they've proven they're more adept at this approach than any other team in the league.

So, while many in the local and national media express negativity & shock at the Meriweather & Moss moves made over the weekend, the Pats are simply executing the plan they recognized would most effectively improve the team at this time with the least amount of risk based on the most current trends in the NFL.

Gotta love this team!

No doubt, it is sad no one in our own local media is able to voice such intelligent analysis as this, but has to play the "hard-hitting criticism" card in a vain attempt to prove their "objective" POV.