Logan Mankins Traded

[Bruins29]

Your inability to accept any sort of Patriot criticism is even better documented.

Your inability to comprehend why this team is not better off after this trade for this year is proof that your brain can't compute any sort of Patriot criticism.

Condon, you keep saying we wont be better but I am not sure that is 100% guaranteed. Mankins was solid, no doubt. Elite still? Probably not, but certainly excellent.

But now you have to factor this. Is TW production plus what the next LG gives us better than (or going to make it easier to win) than what LM gives you.

If another LG comes in, and the sack levels (hurries etc )stay about the same as last year (40) which wasnt great to begin with then whatever TW gives you is gravy. Plus what they can do with the other cash.

WRs go down, Gronk is gronk. If TW is there to replace. Or TW is just integrated into the lineup and Brady is able to get off more plays, or quicker plays, it makes up for a Guard who is not as stout.

I dont see the fallout from this trade as a black and white thing i.e All pro gone, replaced with raw rookie for future. Its not really that.

Given the numbers of last year of both sacks and TW receptions and yards, given who was throwing to him, you could make an argument that Tim Wright is a better player in his position than LM was.

And right now, we have backup guards. We dont even have any depth at TE much less a Joker for the team.

 

[Ring 6]

G


Go find someone else to try and pick an argument with Andy I'm not interested. I am sure you will succeed in that quest, you always do.

I like talking about football, your only interest is in starting an argument.

I AM talking football.
You made a comment about Kline's ability. I asked what you based that on.
What kind of football talk are we going to have if you cannot explain how you arrive at a conclusion?
If you are offended that I asked that, I simply do not understand.

 

[Ivan]

Your homerisim is even better documented.

Your inability to comprehend why this team is not better off after this trade for this year is proof that your brain can't compute any type of Patriot criticism.

That depends entirely on how well the LG and Wright play. If the LG plays well and Wright can have a productive season as a move TE then they may be better off, and if this leads to Revis getting a new deal then I will be very happy with the move.

 

[Ring 6]

Considering the other poster is the one who threw around that anyone who didn't agree with him were just homers who are unable to look at the situation objectively, I don't know why you are throwing back at me. I am just turning his words back on him.

condon's record of lack of objectivity is well documented. Also, he proved he isn't looking at the situation objectively when he consistently said that Mankins still plays at an All Pro level.

But with the fact that Mankins has been on the decline for several years and Wright was an impressive rookie going into his second year, you cannot be objective and say there is no chance that this trade can make this team better this year. What if Mankins is the same Mankins of last year or worse and Wright has a similar second year jump as Hernandez did? Not saying it will happen, but in that scenario the Pats traded an average guard at the end of his career for a 900 yard TE in his second year. Not only would it help the Pats this year,but years to come.

You may have a valid counter argument, and I don't disagree with your comments on the posters MO, but saying it is not objective to grade players differently than you is wrong, that is what I was saying.
I think we need to slow down with making Wright an all-pro too.
I will be surprised if he matches last years production now that he is on a team with more weapons, and will get IMO substantially less playing time.

 

[Ring 6]

Your inability to comprehend why this team is not better off after this trade for this year is proof that your brain can't compute any type of Patriot criticism.

Now the other side, where he is a moron because he evaluates the players differently than you.
Either is a valid prediction, both objective and not moronic.

 

[condon84]

Condon, you keep saying we wont be better but I am not sure that is 100% guaranteed. Mankins was solid, no doubt. Elite still? Probably not, but certainly excellent.

But now you have to factor this. Is TW production plus what the next LG gives us better than (or going to make it easier to win) than what LM gives you.

If another LG comes in, and the sack levels (hurries etc )stay about the same as last year (40) which wasnt great to begin with then whatever TW gives you is gravy. Plus what they can do with the other cash.

WRs go down, Gronk is gronk. If TW is there to replace. Or TW is just integrated into the lineup and Brady is able to get off more plays, or quicker plays, it makes up for a Guard who is not as stout.

I dont see the fallout from this trade as a black and white thing i.e All pro gone, replaced with raw rookie for future. Its not really that.

Given the numbers of last year of both sacks and TW receptions and yards, given who was throwing to him, you could make an argument that Tim Wright is a better player in his position than LM was.

And right now, we have backup guards. We dont even have any depth at TE much less a Joker for the team.

That depends entirely on how well the LG and Wright play. If the LG plays well and Wright can have a productive season as a move TE then they may be better off, and if this leads to Revis getting a new deal then I will be very happy with the move.

If our backup LG plays better than Mankins and Wright puts up great numbers, of course we'll be better off. Of course there are other scenarios like Gronk getting hurt, etc that we can't foresee.

Mind you, I think we are a better team this year overall. Because of young players development, injured players coming back, new FA signings etc.

I just think we were an even better team with Mankins manning the LG.

 

[Bruins29]

I think we need to slow down with making Wright an all-pro too.
I will be surprised if he matches last years production now that he is on a team with more weapons, and will get IMO substantially less playing time.

I Agree. He is going to get less snaps and probably less targets. However f he is out there and not getting the targets but causing D's to pay attention to him (a la a decoy) then he is earning his paycheck.

 

[Bruins29]

If our backup LG plays better than Mankins

Agree, I just dont think your above statement has to happen for us to be a better team this year.

Brady was sacked 40 times last year. Its not the barometer of all barometers but the Oline did have issues. Is it possible they made it completely worse by removing mankins. Its certainly possible, but I cant imagine BB just "winging it" there.

 

[condon84]

Now the other side, where he is a moron because he evaluates the players differently than you.
Either is a valid prediction, both objective and not moronic.

Robo can't understand why someone might think Wright's production might take a dip because of circumstance. He follows the Pats, he knows about the difficulties of receivers learning our offense, gaining Brady's trust. Wright has not had the necessary reps plus Brady already has a solid group of receivers he trust. Factor all that in and it really is more probable that Wright's production is going to take a hit. That really is why I think Mankins being here would be better for this team for this year.

I understand Wright could break out and really go above and beyond even Robo's expectation, but I highly doubt it.

Why Robo can't understand this is beyond me.

 

[Rob0729]

Your inability to comprehend why this team is not better off after this trade for this year is proof that your brain can't compute any type of Patriot criticism.

Your inability to comprehend that we do not know for sure that whether the team is better or worse this year until things play out is staggering mind boggling.

What if Wright is another Danny Woodhead as a second year player added late in the preseason/early in the regular season and makes an immediate and fairly significant impact? What if last year was signs of things to come for Mankins and he continues to be just an average guard?

To declare anything definitive before we see how the season plays out is anything but objective, shortsighted is a word that comes to mind.

The team could be significantly better or worse or anywhere in between after this trade. We can speculate, but we have no idea.

Last night showed that Wright seems to be a quick study and the Pats look to be giving him a significant role this season, but who knows what happens when the season starts.

 

[condon84]

Agree, I just dont think your above statement has to happen for us to be a better team this year.

Brady was sacked 40 times last year. Its not the barometer of all barometers but the Oline did have issues. Is it possible they made it completely worse by removing mankins. Its certainly possible, but I cant imagine BB just "winging it" there.

No I don't think BB is winging it. I think he's thinking long term, which I think the trade works for us. And for the short term he probably thinks someone else can step in and do a good enough job. Not as good as Mankins, but good enough anyways. Whatever Wright does is going to be a bonus.

 

[Ivan]

If our backup LG plays better than Mankins and Wright puts up great numbers, of course we'll be better off. Of course there are other scenarios like Gronk getting hurt, etc that we can't foresee.

Mind you, I think we are a better team this year overall. Because of young players development, injured players coming back, new FA signings etc.

I just think we were an even better team with Mankins manning the LG.

I doubt the LG will be better than Mankins but if they can play the position well and Wright plays well then they could be better off overall. I am a big Mankins fan and hated to see him go but I can understand why Belichick would pull the trigger on the deal given the big picture and Mankins refusal to redo his deal. I think Belichick was going to release him after this season if he wouldn't restructure and he clearly wasn't going to do that, so if they have addressed move TE and cleared the room to get the revis or Revis and McCourty deals done then it was the right move to make imo.

 

[goheels22002]

Felger and Maz have already regressed to 'the Pats are cheap argument. Felger being on board with the trade lasted less than 24 hours. Of course, I suspect he only liked it at first because it allowed him to crow that they never should have paid Mankins so much money in the first place AND if they weren't cheap they wouldn't have screwed him on his rookie contract so he would have signed for far less! QED

The twin Naugahyde recliners that Perillo and Hart sit on in their windowless bunker know more about football than Felger and Mazz.

 

[Rob0729]

Robo can't understand why someone might think Wright's production might take a dip because of circumstance. He follows the Pats, he knows about the difficulties of receivers learning our offense, gaining Brady's trust. Wright has not had the necessary reps plus Brady already has a solid group of receivers he trust. Factor all that in and it really is more probable that Wright's production is going to take a hit. That really is why I think Mankins being here would be better for this team for this year.

I understand Wright could break out and really go above and beyond even Robo's expectation, but I highly doubt it.

Why Robo can't understand this is beyond me.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that Wright couldn't take a dip in production. I defy you to show one post where I said he would definitely be as good or better than last year.

And player don't have problems earning Brady's trust. If McDaniels designs plays to throw to Wright, Brady will throw to him. We saw that last year with Dobson and Thompkins and Ochocinco the year before. What will happen is Brady will lose his trust for a player and it is hard to impossible to get it back. But Brady will give receivers chances.

You are backtracking on the expectations on Wright, you were talking in definites that adding him and losing Mankins would be a downgrade this year.

 

[Ivan]

I AM talking football.
You made a comment about Kline's ability. I asked what you based that on.
What kind of football talk are we going to have if you cannot explain how you arrive at a conclusion?
If you are offended that I asked that, I simply do not understand.

Why is it Andy that you think everyone has to justify themselves to you? You seem fairly intelligent and have decent football knowledge but your desire to turn everything into an argument and prosecute your case is wearisome.

 

[Ring 6]

I Agree. He is going to get less snaps and probably less targets. However f he is out there and not getting the targets but causing D's to pay attention to him (a la a decoy) then he is earning his paycheck.

I see him as a bit piece, not a key contributor.
Christian Fauria, not Aaron Hernandez.
BTW, Wright is not going to be a DECOY taking defenders away from Gronk and the WRs.

 

[condon84]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that Wright couldn't take a dip in production. I defy you to show one post where I said he would definitely be as good or better than last year.

And player don't have problems earning Brady's trust. If McDaniels designs plays to throw to Wright, Brady will throw to him. We saw that last year with Dobson and Thompkins and Ochocinco the year before. What will happen is Brady will lose his trust for a player and it is hard to impossible to get it back. But Brady will give receivers chances.

You are backtracking on the expectations on Wright, you were talking in definites.

No backtracking from me dude. I don't expect Wright to have more than 30 receptions. But I do accept that there is a chance that he can go nuts. Anything is possible. Like there's also a chance Brady throw for 100 TDs, Edelman catches 40 TDs, Ridley to rush for over 3000 yards, etc. There's always that possibility.

 

[Ring 6]

Why is it Andy that you think everyone has to justify themselves to you? You seem fairly intelligent and have decent football knowledge but your desire to turn everything into an argument and prosecute your case is wearisome.

I asked a question.
You wanted to discuss Josh Kline. I asked what you based your conclusion on.
You think that was wrong?
If you have studied him, watched all of his plays, and have insight to offer, I would be very interested in hearing it.
If you have not, I would be interested in knowing that fact in order to gauge your conclusion.
Kline seems to be a guy who will be important to this team, and is a big topic of conversation.
When someone posts what sounds like a confident, informed opinion about him, why is there something wrong with wanting to know the basis of it?

 

[Bruins29]

I see him as a bit piece, not a key contributor.
Christian Fauria, not Aaron Hernandez.
BTW, Wright is not going to be a DECOY taking defenders away from Gronk and the WRs.

Agree, Not Gronk/WR as a Randy Moss would and decoy was probably too strong a word but if Wright comes out of the gate, Opposing teams will take notice if TB is lighting him up. Its just another thing for them to plan around.

 

[Rob0729]

No backtracking from me dude. I don't expect Wright to have more than 30 receptions. But I do accept that there is a chance that he can go nuts. Anything is possible. Like there's also a chance Brady throw for 100 TDs, Edelman catches 40 TDs, Ridley to rush for over 3000 yards, etc. There's always that possibility.

See even in your response to claim you are objective, you show your lack of objectivity. "Sure, Wright could have a very good year just like it is possible for Brady or Edelman to double the single season TD record or Ridley to get 50% more than the rushing record."

Do you even see how un-objective you are? Why not admit you think there is no way possible that Wright has a good year and shed the illusion of you trying to be objective?