Logan Mankins Traded

[Bruins29]

Exactly, this was whining personified. Now Timmy has to put up huge numbers to justify the trade in an offense that could feature many weapons. Or the whole thing could fall apart.

Or maybe TB will get killed and some of you will be able to point out it was a bad trade because weapons or not TB is on hi butt.

I have an idea, why not be a little positive, objective and see how it goes?

 

[condon84]

Why bother? You already declared the trade a bust. Why revisit it? You "objectively" looked at the situation and determined that there is no way Wright can be productive in this offense, Mankins still plays at an All Pro level (even though he hasn't in 2-3 years), and his replacement is going to suck. Why bother continuing to analyze this trade after the season when we are smacked with all this objectivity before the season starts?

I said this trade does not make the team better this year. Not that the trade is a bad one long term.

Don't back out now that you know this will be bumped and we can look how silly your assessments are.

 

[Bruins29]

R Mankins is anywhere near a Pro Bowl caliber guard at this point, though the Pro Bowl is based more on reputation than play (he wasn't Pro Bowl caliber last year, either).

Exactly, as pointed out by a poster way back. Probowl is disingenuous at best at this point. He was a good guard in a position I remember everyone preaching a couple years ago that it was a plug and play part.

Now this SB favorite stacked on both sides of the ball with the 3rd best rookie TE of all time when TE was a major need is a worse team?

No

 

[Rob0729]

Like I said to Robo above, we will bump this thread at the end of the year and see who was being silly.

Robo said 70 receptions.

What do you think?

I say less than 30.

Mankins makes another Pro-Bowl.

I said he could catch anywhere between 40-70 receptions. Don't spin it to make it sound like I say he was going to catch 70 balls. I said 70 balls was his ceiling, not what I thought he would catch.

And if Mankins makes the Pro Bowl, it means nothing to how he played. He gets voted on because he is a name (granted moving to the NFC hurts him because there are more big name guards (Jahri Evans, Alex Boone, etc.) in that conference. If you are going to declare victory based on a popularity contest, why even bother with this exercise at the end of the year?

 

[Bruins29]

I said this trade does not make the team better this year. Not that the trade is a bad one long term.

Don't back out now that you know this will be bumped and we can look how silly your assessments are.

Even your biggest supporter here backtracked from that comment and took a new "Oline will not be better"

 

[Rob0729]

I said this trade does not make the team better this year. Not that the trade is a bad one long term.

Don't back out now that you know this will be bumped and we can look how silly your assessments are.

LOL! You don't even get that I was mocking you.

Again, you are already twisting the whole exercise though. Saying I said Wright was going to catch 70 balls and using the Pro Bowl as the measuring stick. I have no problem revisiting this at the end of the year, but not if you are going to try to stack the deck in your favor.

What if Mankins makes the Pro Bowl, but the Pats only give up say 25 sacks this year? Who won the debate? Mankins won a popularity contest, but the Pats cut the sacks by 15. I would say the Pats win that, but you would say otherwise.

 

[Nunchucks]

Even your biggest supporter here backtracked from that comment and took a new "Oline will not be better"

What does that mean? it will be worse. The OL will be worse without Mankins. WTF are you trying to semantics my argument for?

And the team overall is worse off this year than they were before Mankins was traded.

They have plenty of receiving options and did not need a move TE, especially one with only 1 year under his belt at the position and is undersized, nevermind that he has missed all of TC.

This was a move to free up cap space to sign guys, which I agree is necessary and it is a move for next year.

 

[Bruins29]

What does that mean? it will be worse. The OL will be worse without Mankins. WTF are you trying to semantics my argument for?

I will make it clear for all.

You said the team will be worse in what seemed like worse than last year.

Then when called on it, you claimed you meant worse this year.

Then when shown that was silly went to the "Oline will be worse" Which is fine.

My point is that even you, the person who seems to hate this trade the most have backed off the "Team will be worse" comments. Condon is now going down that road and I pointed out that you even changed your claim.

Is that clear for all parties?

 

[condon84]

I said he could catch anywhere between 40-70 receptions. Don't spin it to make it sound like I say he was going to catch 70 balls. I said 70 balls was his ceiling, not what I thought he would catch.

And if Mankins makes the Pro Bowl, it means nothing to how he played. He gets voted on because he is a name (granted moving to the NFC hurts him because there are more big name guards (Jahri Evans, Alex Boone, etc.) in that conference. If you are going to declare victory based on a popularity contest, why even bother with this exercise at the end of the year?

40-70? That's quite a scale. That's 42% gap.

Why don't you narrow it down there champ.

 

[Nunchucks]

I will make it clear for all.

You said the team will be worse in what seemed like worse than last year.

Then when called on it, you claimed you meant worse this year.

Then when shown that was silly went to the "Oline will be worse" Which is fine.

My point is that even you, the person who seems to hate this trade the most have backed off the "Team will be worse" comments. Condon is now going down that road and I pointed out that you even changed your claim.

Is that clear for all parties?

Claim?

No, the offense will not be as good with Mankins playing for the Bucs.....is that clear enough for you? If they did not make the trade, the offense would be better than it is right now......

Mankins = better team
no Mankins = worse team

I am not comparing the team to last year, I am saying that for the season coming up, they would be a better team with Mankins on it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

40-70? That's quite a scale. That's 42% gap.

Why don't you narrow it down there champ.

Why would anyone want to 'narrow it down' for a guy who just joined the team yesterday and who has yet to take even a practice snap for the team? Of course the range of his possible production is extremely wide; we have basically no idea what to expect at this point. It's possible that he'll step right in and will be a meaningful contributor who catches a couple balls a game from week 1. It's also possible that he'll ride the bench for 6+ weeks. It's all speculation until anyone at all (including Belichick) sees him play in this offense.

 

[Bruins29]

Claim?

No, the offense will not be as good with Mankins playing for the Bucs.....is that clear enough for you? If they did not make the trade, the offense would be better than it is right now......

Mankins = better team
no Mankins = worse team

I am not comparing the team to last year, I am saying that for the season coming up, they would be a better team with Mankins on it.

So you are gonna flip flop again and go back to the team will be worse.

Mankins = better team is laughable.

You could say No Move TE = worse team.

Yeah, I sorta figured you would do that. Keep on keeping on. I cant discuss this with someone who keeps changing their claims.

 

[condon84]

Why would anyone want to 'narrow it down' for a guy who just joined the team yesterday and who has yet to take even a practice snap for the team? Of course the range of his possible production is extremely wide; we have basically no idea what to expect at this point.

Do you have an idea of what Mankins would have done for us if he was still here?

 

[Nunchucks]

So you are gonna flip flop again and go back to the team will be worse.

Mankins = better team is laughable.

You could say No Move TE = worse team.

Yeah, I sorta figured you would do that. Keep on keeping on. I cant discuss this with someone who keeps changing their claims.

Dude, my argument has not changed, maybe I was not clear enough for you. But, my belief has not changed...you have not swayed me with your argument that the 3rd best rookie TE in history is going to come in and earn brady's trust and make a larger impact on the offense than Mankins.

I do not believe the Patriots NEED a move TE. They lacked one, but I am not sure they needed one. They have plenty of WRs who have Brady's trust and are capable players with size.

Heck, LaFell is pretty much the same height and weight as Wright and he plays the slot...the same place the move TE would end up in many cases.

Would you rather have Wright or LaFell on the field?

 

[condon84]

LOL! You don't even get that I was mocking you.

Again, you are already twisting the whole exercise though. Saying I said Wright was going to catch 70 balls and using the Pro Bowl as the measuring stick. I have no problem revisiting this at the end of the year, but not if you are going to try to stack the deck in your favor.

What if Mankins makes the Pro Bowl, but the Pats only give up say 25 sacks this year? Who won the debate? Mankins won a popularity contest, but the Pats cut the sacks by 15. I would say the Pats win that, but you would say otherwise.

LOL. No that was not mocking.

Me posting about bumping this thread at the end of the year and saying how silly your argument is, is mocking you.

Making fun of your 40-70 reception prediction is mocking you.

When this thread is bumped at the end of the year and Wright has less than 30 receptions. That will also me me mocking you.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Claim?

No, the offense will not be as good with Mankins playing for the Bucs.....is that clear enough for you? If they did not make the trade, the offense would be better than it is right now......

Mankins = better team
no Mankins = worse team

I am not comparing the team to last year, I am saying that for the season coming up, they would be a better team with Mankins on it.

I think statements like this are getting distorted, when the meaning should be pretty clear. Mankins' presumptive replacement this year is Josh Kline, right? Or if it's not, sub in whoever you think will be starting. Is that guy as good as Logan Mankins is right now? The answer has to be no. I know that absolutely nobody on this board or anywhere else was claiming that Mankins' backup was better than him before yesterday.

That's the extent of claims like this. The Pats might be better off long-term. When you factor in what they'll do with the cap space, there's a great chance that they will be. But they'll be worse at LG, and possibly at RG and/or C too through domino effect. The only caveat where this doesn't make the overall team worse in 2014 is if they use the cap space to go and sign premium talent at positions of need after final cutdowns. Which I wouldn't rule out, $13M of cap space is a lot of money to have at this point in the season, and will make them a really attractive option for any still-talented vet who gets cut loose. But for now, the only information that we have is that a weak unit got weaker (for now).

 

[BradyFTW!]

Do you have an idea of what Mankins would have done for us if he was still here?

Roughly speaking, sure. Because we've been watching him here for nine years. You can take what he did last year, assume that he'll decline from that, and there you have it.

 

[Bruins29]

Dude, my argument has not changed, maybe I was not clear enough for you. But, my belief has not changed...you have not swayed me with your argument that the 3rd best rookie TE in history is going to come in and earn brady's trust and make a larger impact on the offense than Mankins.

I do not believe the Patriots NEED a move TE. They lacked one, but I am not sure they needed one. They have plenty of WRs who have Brady's trust and are capable players with size.

Heck, LaFell is pretty much the same height and weight as Wright and he plays the slot...the same place the move TE would end up in many cases.

Would you rather have Wright or LaFell on the field?

But its not Wrights production against LM potential performance. There will be a LG and he could be as good or better than LM. Or worse. Or maybe much worse. But we dont know.

Here is what we know.

LM - declining
LM using valuable cap space that could be used for additions this year!!!
TW - great player so it seems
PAtriots - no move TE

And even if you want to proclaim they dont "need" a move TE the depth a TE was anemic.

Plus, as I stated this incredible murderers row of receivers the pats employ have a better chance of being on IR this year than going out and making Wright irrelevant. That is a big factor. This is not a dependable crew.

There are a lot more factors than just we got rid of an all-pro guard.

 

[condon84]

Roughly speaking, sure. Because we've been watching him here for nine years. You can take what he did last year, assume that he'll decline from that, and there you have it.

Do you think that Wright's impact this year is going to be greater than Mankins' impact had he stayed with the team?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Do you think that Wright's impact this year is going to be greater than Mankins' impact had he stayed with the team?

No, I don't. Really not sure what you're getting at here.