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Logan Mankins and the run game

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by spacecrime, Nov 14, 2010.

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  1. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    We had a decent run game for years until we drafted Mankins. Then we were mediocre, right down the the last forgettable game Mankins played in last year.

    Then, with him gone, our run game got better, without Taylor, without Faulk, without Maroney or Morris. With a pair of UDFAs.

    So Mankins comes back and his first game our running game disappears.

    I don't expect much against the Steelers but we should run all over the Colts.

    I'm glad Mankins is back. He is good depth, especially with Neal hurt, but unless our run game returns to it's sans-Mankins level, I sure hope the Pats don't put out mega-bucks to sign him to a long term deal. Forget the Git-Along-Little-Dogies guy. Take the third round comp pick and get an OG who can make DTs git outta the way.
  2. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Mankins is our best run blocker.
  3. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Grading OL is always a bit tricky, but not sure what makes you think he's a bad run blocker. If you look at the OL stats from Football Outsiders, the Patriots have consistently been in the top 10 in run blocking:

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES

    In 2005, they weren't very good. But they improved to 12th in 2006, and have been a top-10 team since. If you look at the breakdown of yards per run based on direction, the left tackle and mid-guard positions are consistently higher than running to the right side during this time, which means at the very least, Mankins wasn't hurting the team.

    Here's one article from ProFootballFocus that also gave him high marks:

    Should they pay or should he go? Logan Mankins

    However, I will agree that he was awful in the run game against Cleveland. And PFF also agreed, grading him at -4.6 for that game. But one bad game doesn't mean he's sucked his entire career. If that's the case, then BB is a moron and Tom Brady is a JAG.
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, he's supposed to be a better run blocker than pass blocker. Not as agile as his replacement but stouter and meaner. Although the returtning slimmed down business of football version may have been angling for better all around functionality...

    Our OL is simply not stout enough to front a power running game absent one heck of a downhill runner and augmentation from the TE's that sadly still limits their/the OC's ability to focus on being viable pass targets. And while they are smarter and quicker than the average OL and that lends itself to scheming pass protection even against elite outside rushers, they struggle to open holes for the league average RB and they get blowed up when matched against bigger, stronger DL's that can exploit physical mismatches up the middle into Brady's bread and butter zone.

    Hopefully 2011 will be the year Bill is able to focus his attention on the LOS (both sides) at the top of the draft.
  5. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    2008 was maybe our best year on the ground aside from 2004 when Dillon still had it, and that was with various injuries in the backfield.

    EDIT: Just looked up some #'s. Interestingly enough 2008 was the year we racked up the most yards on the ground in the BB era - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2008.htm. This was while Neal was out for a good portion of the 1st half of the season
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  6. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    In the years 2001 through 2004 the Pats averaged
    466.25 rushing attempts
    rushed for 1760.5 yards
    scored 12 rushing touchdowns
    rushed for an average of 3.78 yards

    In the years 2005 through 2009 the Pats averaged
    473.6 rushing attempts
    rushed for 1905.8 yards
    scored 18.6 rushing touchdowns
    rushed for an average of 3.98 yards.

    In the years 2001 through 2004 the Pats average league rank
    in rushing attempts was 13.25
    in rushing yards was 18.75
    in rushing touchdowns was 16.25
    in rushing yards per attempts was 24.75

    In the years 2005 through 2009 the Pats average league rank
    in rushing attempts was 9.4
    in rushing yards was 13.4
    in rushing touchdowns was 6
    in rushing yards per attempts was 18

    Given the above numbers and what I have seen in my own eyes, I am STUNNED but not SURPRISED that anyone who even imply that Mankins' presence on the Patriots has made the Patriots running game worse.
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    great job on stats.
    Would any criticism of any player on this board really surprise you?
  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Time to shut this thread down. Mankins is the top run blocker on this O-Line right now. How anyone can say that his presence makes the running game worse is beyond me.
  9. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    Why doesn't Logan Mankins play right guard?
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Why would we weaken Brady's blindside against one of the premier pass rushers in the league when we have a back-up with significant playing time under his belt that we can plug in on the right side?
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    IMO, for tonight's game, I'd put Connolly at Right Guard (Neal out) and keep Mankins at LG. Mankins has 5 years chemistry with Light and Koppen on his right shoulder. I wouldn't mess everything up with putting Mankins next to Vollmer and Koppen's right shoulder.

    To me, it's obvious that Light-Mankins-Koppen-Connolly-Vollmer is better than Light-Connolly-Koppen-Mankins-Vollmer.

    Chemistry and timing is vital on an OL.
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Now, I fully agree that Mankins is a clear upgrade over Connolly at LG. No argument.

    Is he a $7 million per year upgrade at LG? I'm sorry, folks - - NO.

    I hope he plays his heart out for the rest of this season and wins a SB ring. If he wants the big money for a LG position, we get a comp pick, right? And, he doesn't have 10 years in, so it could be a 3rd rounder, right?
  13. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Connolly is starting at LG for the next 5 years he isn't playing for 500k.
    You could make the are they worth x more than the average guy at every position and talk yourself into a 50,000,000 payroll and lose every game.
    Now, I think Connolly has done a good job, but you also need 2 Gs, and if you are going to invest big money in a player, its sound philoosphy to invest oin one of your own who is good, reliable, and never misses a game.
  14. zipster9

    zipster9 Rookie

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    Didn't show it in the Browns game.

    For the Patriots to win tonights game, they need "play-action". This is predicated by the run.

    Steelers are tops against the run.

    With Fred (My toe hurts) Taylor, out. You only have BJGE, which had 1 good game, and went into hibernation, we are in trouble. You simply cannot put all the burden on Brady's arm, especially against the Steelers.

    OC needs to mix it up in the plays. They are too predictable..
  15. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    The Patriots seem to think so, if the reports are true. I've also given you numerous reasons in the past for why he is. :cool:
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    It was Mankins' first game back. He didn't have any training camp, and he'd only been practicing with the team for a few days. I'm not sure what you two were expecting at that point.
  17. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Who said anything about $500,000?

    Straw man argument, Andy. I expect better from you.

    BTW, "reliable and never misses a game" - - you're attaching those words to the Runaway Bride?????????
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  18. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Sorry, Space, but you're way off on this. If you go back and look at the stat breakdowns, you'll find that the Pats had much of their success running left or running outside right with Mankins as the pulling guard.

    Mankins has passed Neal as the Pats best run-blocker.

    As for the Pats running game disappearing, that has more to do with the Pats going down early than it does Mankins in the line-up.
  19. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey


    I agree with your overall thought...but moreso if it were 2002.
    Mankins and the other 10 guys need to do their part so Brady can win this game for us.
    This is a huge game for obvious reasons, but also for the overall morale of our team. If Brady is the GOAT as most of us say he is, then THIS is the kind of game he needs to be lights out for...even without a running game to speak of. He needs to spread them out, read the D, and pick his spots.
    There is adversity surrounding the team with injuries, coming off an embarrassing loss, youth on the defense, and a juggernaut of an opponent on the road. This is the type of game we need TB to play like the GOAT he is.
  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What number are you using to say 7mill more than? Surely not the number we would be paying his replacement for the next 5 years.

    Mankins has never missed a game aside from his contract dispute. If he is signed long term that circumstance wouldnt exist.
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