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lockout ALMOST over!!! (Merged)


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Re: lockout over???

Real refs make a couple bad mistakes per game.... Maybe 2-3.


Replacement refs make about 10-12 bad mistakes per game.... usually in favor of the home teams. Since the replacements were so insecure and unsure of their calls, they would favor the home teams because they didn't want to get boo'ed. On both SNF and MNF the Packers and Patriots were beating their opponents, only to have the refs save the home team over and over in crucial moments.


Those phantom defensive holding calls that screwed the Pats are unlike anything I have ever seen before in the NFL.
 
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Re: lockout over???

But they'll control the game, it wont be a WWE free for all for 60 minutes and the real refs have some respect, these replacements didnt have the respect of the players or coaches and everyone pushed the envelope to see what they could get away with.

That's not fair the officials controlled the SNF game... just not in the way they're supposed to.
 
Re: lockout over???

Sure the regular refs are going to make mistakes. However you cannot compare the amount of vitriol reserved for guys that are not trained for this job being inserted into an impossible situation presented as a "working formula" to a qualified official, trained for the job making a mistake. Sure the reg-refs are going to make mistakes. What else is new.

Make no mistake about it. Presuming this is now ending it is ending because those involved in having created this fiasco suddenly realized that the NFL, owners, league officials, what have you, have taken every shred of integrity the league had built up over the years, decades really and flushed it right down the toilet. What integrity they have left they will have because we bestow it upon them.

Although I would contend that after Monday Night, they have no choice but to settle this as quickly as possible, the very strong likelihood that this mess will be over within hours, days at worst lends credibility to the story that:
1) the league's actual intent was to break the union
2) since the league's intent was to break the union, they have not been negotiating in good faith up to this point thus extending the period of time we have had this nonsense
3) while intending to break the union and therefore not negotiating in good faith, apparently the NFL itself was completely unprepared for an extended period without the reg-refs and did not produce a contingency plan that had a shred of a chance of working even for a period of time as short as a few weeks!

The only reason we accepted this joke of a plan up until it was finally exposed by the actual performance of the "plan" itself was because we did not believe, could not bring ourselves to believe that the NFL would have handled this as poorly as they have. We could not believe that they would be stupid enough to trade on decades of integrity for whatever benefit the league could get out out of breaking the union. Further, we could not believe that the NFL would not have ramped up a plan that would have at least prevented the utter and complete humiliation and embarrassment that has resulted from what they did in fact put forward.

They knew full well based on what they were trying to achieve that they would be well into regular season games before any chance of resolution. I read one post here yesterday that offered that the league was prepared to go the entire year without the reg-refs, firing everybody for next year and starting with a clean slate, having dissolved its obligation to the current reg-refs. Could you imagine anybody with half a brain having conceived that mess the NFL slung out there would believe it would last for a full season?

The last straw, the coup de grace if you will is that while the original call in the Packers end zone on Monday Night Football was a travesty of officiating best practice, the review system that is the actual every day NFL review system simply not manned per usual, still failed to arrive at the correct conclusion.

Damn right, they suddenly found the intestinal fortitude to solve this like right now.

I will be happy to have the reg-refs back again. However, will I ever believe a word that comes out of the commissioner of the NFL's mouth ever again on any topic of relevance, regardless of who he is? Not a chance. While I tend to be somewhat hard nosed about stuff like this, as the weeks of humiliation and embarrassment went by, more and more fans would be lining up with me I believe, eventually unwilling to ever hold the NFL in the same light again


The only reason we are now getting resolution is that the NFL realized it is on that slippery slope to a complete lack of credibility and virtual irrelevance.
 
she is warming up but not ready to take the stage just yet.

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Re: Lockout IS NOT OVER...

There are a number of reasons why it can't and won't be over this week and Florio lays them out.

First, a deal isn't done and issues remain to be ironed out even about some of the things they have agreed to in principle like developmental refs. They have not yet agreed in any manner including principle to the resolution of the pension issue.

Some interesting things he reports are the rank and file are anxious to get back but their union isn't quite there yet. Perhaps the leak was designed to exert pressure on the union from their own members. Then there is the issue that at least half of the refs have to convene somewhere when an agreement is reached and ratify it in person.

Most interesting points he brings up are fact that the league will not want to have a Thursday game reffed by replacements because it could have a competitive imbalance effect on the Sunday and Monday games. So that means next week at the earliest for a return to the field.

Then there are reports that as many as 20 regular refs may not be able to pass the physical... So they will have to hash out how to deal with that given the existing backup crews only number 3 (or 18 officials each with position specific jobs). Might necessitate a Thursday crew working Sunday and a Sunday crew working Monday out of the gate. Several of the existing regulars are in their 60's.

Aiello on NFLRA talks: “There is no such thing as close” | ProFootballTalk
 
That pandering tool needs to be kept as far away from real business as possible.

That said, it isn't over. And a mod needs to retitle this thread to Lockout could be over soon.



.

If I hadn't hit my drive in the woods on the 10th hole, the thread would have been re-titled sooner.
 
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Could you then merge my not over thread with it. Thanks.
 
Re: Lockout IS NOT OVER...

The NFL & Goodell may be frauds, but they aren't stupid. I can't imagine they'll go another weekend with the scabs. They won't admit to being wrong....but they certainly know this BS has to stop.

Really....they were stupid enough to bring this fiasco of a contingency plan for rep-refs forward in the first place.
 
Re: lockout over???

Real refs make a couple bad mistakes per game.... Maybe 2-3.


Replacement refs make about 10-12 bad mistakes per game.... usually in favor of the home teams. Since the replacements were so insecure and unsure of their calls, they would favor the home teams because they didn't want to get boo'ed. On both SNF and MNF the Packers and Patriots were beating their opponents, only to have the refs save the home team over and over in crucial moments.


Those phantom defensive holding calls that screwed the Pats are unlike anything I have ever seen before in the NFL.

Exactly, it's not that we expect the regular refs to not make bad calls, it's that we expect them to make bad calls with less frequency, and instill control and consistency in the game.

Compare the job the ref has (to officiate the game cleanly and consistently) to the job of the quarterback (to put the team in the best position to win and score points). Both come down to correct decision-making. In the case of the ref, a bad decision means an incorrect call, while the best example of a bad decision by the QB would be an interception.

Now, over the course of the game and season, you understand that your QB is not a robot and will make mistakes from time to time. But if they're limiting their mistakes to one or two interceptions a game and being productive otherwise, you're satisfied with their performance. Likewise, if they're throwing multiple interceptions a game and more INTs than TDs, they're likely not gonna last very long.

So it is with the reffing situation: whereas the regular refs give you a Ben Roethlisberger performance (generally solid, but not spectacular), these replacement refs are giving us their best Josh Freeman impression (and that's being a little harsh on Josh).

Back to topic, with the refs agreeing to bring in contingency plans to ensure greater depth of officiating, agreeing to a 401k for future refs, and asking for current refs to be grandfathered in on their pension, the onus is now entirely on the owners. Jim Irsay is full of ***** as the 'quality of officiating' issue has already been addressed. Now it comes down to the refs simply wanting to keep what they already had. Citing similar trends in other organizations due to economic downswing when your product is more profitable than ever as justification to cut costs is flat out ludicrous.
 
Re: lockout over???

But they'll control the game, it wont be a WWE free for all for 60 minutes and the real refs have some respect, these replacements didnt have the respect of the players or coaches and everyone pushed the envelope to see what they could get away with.

True! It's lesser of 2 evils but with some sort of control. Blatent holding, pushin, fights etc will be eliminated and "Substitute Teacher Syndrome" Regular refs/umps will do a MUCH better job than rentals and again that's not sayin MUCH.
 
4:03 pm Update:NFL not ruling out regular refs' return by Thursday night

The NFL hasn't shut the door on having locked-out officials back on the field for Thursday night's prime-time game between the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens, according to a source involved with the league's plans and, as first reported by SI.com's Peter King, based on the officials' own preparation work.

There's also a competitive issue at play. The NFL is aware that employing replacement officials for the Browns-Ravens game and then having regular officials on the field for the other 14 games in Week 4 would create inequity.

NFL not ruling out regular refs' return by Thursday night - NFL.com
 
Re: 4:03 pm Update:NFL not ruling out regular refs' return by Thursday night

I nearly spit out my coffee when I read the part about the NFL's "concern" about inequity.
 
Re: 4:03 pm Update:NFL not ruling out regular refs' return by Thursday night

I nearly spit out my coffee when I read the part about the NFL's "concern" about inequity.

Luckily I wasn't imbibing at the time as I would definitely have spat out mine.:D
 
Re: Lockout IS NOT OVER...

There are a number of reasons why it can't and won't be over this week and Florio lays them out.

There is one BIG reason why they need to get them out there this week: Can you imagine what the games will be like with the players and the refs all knowing that this will be their last week with one another? It would be mayhem. If they can't get them out this week then its best not to announce anything. That may be why they are saying the lockout isnt over.
 
Re: Lockout IS NOT OVER...

I agree about when they will announce regardless of when this is settled. The whole Thursday-Sunday thing is a real problem.

Hard to imagine they would allow rep-refs to do the Thursday game and have reg-refs do the Sunday games. On the other hand, the rep-refs have been so bad, I am sure they would want the reg-refs back for the Sunday games regardless of how unfair it would be to the two Thursday game teams.

What a mess. My guess would be that given they have already screwed up this season royally, the league would take the criticism on the fairness issue for allowing the rep-refs to do the Thursday game only if it had to be that way and get the reg-refs in for the Sunday games.
 
Per Albert Breer Officials passed physicals and updated on new rules and are ready to go. Also reported that there is a good chance that Refs could be on field for Ravens/Browns tomorrow nite.
NO OFFICIAL WORD YET!
 
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Re: lockout over???

After monday night, I told everybody at work that a deal would get done within 2 weeks. It was just inexcusable. Of course I was laughed at. If true, thank god they're back.

Tell me, does this keep happening to you?
 
Am I correct in that the regulars will not be doing the Thursday night game? If so, doesnt that make some sort of imbalnce?
 
Re: lockout over???

Thought it interesting that media types are claiming MLB to be the best run of the major pro sports leagues based on not having had a work stoppage for so many years.

Of the four you have to say that NHL and NBA are out of the running for best right off the top. That leaves NFL and MLB.

NFL has certainly become a more complicated enterprise to run. It has grown so fast that it now has aspirations beyond those of MLB which brings even more complication.

I don't think there would be any question about which of the two was better run before seeing the NFL or specifically Goodell bungle his way through Bountygate and of course now the officials fiasco which is not all Goodells doing but is the responsibility of the two headed monster that is the NFL itself as a league and the owners in the way they interact both with their own league and league constituents.

I can credit MLB for not having attempted to redress the original mess created by the early MLB CBA negotiations. MLB just went through another CBA negotiation and did not touch any of the real issues created in the early CBA negotiations with a ten foot pole, choosing instead to nip at the corners of those issues. You could say that it dooms MLB to more years of the same bull that they have to deal with now. On the other hand, you probably have to credit them for knowing what they could or could not realistically do in this particular CBA negotiation. That is something the NFL apparently did not know relative to the ref mess.

Reluctantly, given how badly the NFL has handled the ref thing heaped on top of the embarrassment of Goodell being slam dunked in Bountygate, I guess I have to agree....MLB at least right now is probably the best run of the four major pro leagues.
 
I hope they place the magnifying glass on the regular refs as they did on the guys who were covering while they were locked out.
+1. I think a lot of people were idealizing the regulars to ridiculous extremes. The regulars make mistakes o' PLENTY when they're in there.
 
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