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Lloyd Carr and Tom Brady

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFanSince74, Nov 23, 2007.

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  1. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I see that Tom Brady was his usual classy self when he issued a statement earlier this week praising Lloyd Carr after the Coach announced he was stepping down at Michigan. After all these years, we'd expect nothing else from Brady.

    I'm wondering, however, if there is any view or information on TB's true feelings towards Carr.

    It's now legendary that Brady fell to the Sixth Round and pick #199 in 2000, behind such memorable QB draftees as Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin and Spergon Wynn (as well as Chad Pennington and Mark Bulger). He fell there because of the perception that he wasn't "good enough" to take the starter's job in his own right at Michigan, platooned with the media favorite Drew (where is he now?) Henson.

    I found an old article from The Sporting News on the topic (Sept 1999), which I've attached below, hopefully with enough text removed to be OK. In it, Brady shows that he the same class eight years ago that he exhibits today.

    I'm wondering, though, if Brady has ever spoken otherwise about Carr?


    Sporting News
    Sept 13, 1999

    Stop the shuffle! Brady's the man for Michigan

    Mark Blaudschun

    The great quarterback controversy raged all summer in Ann Arbor. Drew Henson, Tom Brady. Pick one. Lloyd Carr couldn't. Not last week. Not this week. And probably not next week, and that is going to hurt Michigan.

    Oh, maybe not now. Certainly, no one was unhappy last Saturday after Michigan's 26-22 victory over Notre Dame in its season opener.

    How could they be? The Wolverines came from behind to beat the Irish in one of those can-you-believe-it type of games these two always seem to play.

    All Brady did was complete 17-of-24 passes for 197 yards. All he did was take the Wolverines down the field in the final minutes for a score when Michigan desperately needed a touchdown.

    All Henson did was complete 3-of-8 passes for 40 yards in the one quarter he played, and that was good enough for the head coach. "Drew Henson did nothing to hurt himself today," Carr said.

    Neither did Brady. And that's the point. Tom Brady deserves to be No. 1, not 1-A. The fifth year senior was largely responsible for Michigan's rebound last season from an 0-2 start to a 10-3 finish.

    ...

    "The competition was so close," says Carr, who got through this week by starting Brady, bringing in Henson in the second quarter and then going to Brady for the second half. "I didn't think it was fair to start one guy and not play the other"

    ...

    Brady is one of the captains. He is a classy kid who has taken the high road. When someone asked him about the situation after the Notre Dame game, Brady said, "It was never on my mind. It's not something I concern myself with."

    About Henson, he said, "Everyone has built up such high expectations. He's such a great player." But Brady also said something else. He said Henson was young, a second-year player.

    ...

    Good teams need leaders. Tom Brady is Michigan's leader right now. Drew Henson will be the leader next season, if he chooses to stick around. If he doesn't, ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on.
     
  2. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Tom has changed over the years. It's about that simple. He missed time due to injury, and his coaches thought that Henson was more solid, despite instances where he wasn't.

    Why second guess them? Nobody has a crystal ball and can see how a kid is going to develop or not develop. Those decisions were based upon what they could see with their eyes, not through a crystal ball.
     
  3. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I have no idea what their relationship is, maybe Michigan Dave can offer insight there, but I do recall that in the book written about Brady last year when his father talked about Lloyd Carr, he was not complimentary and even said he could or wanted to punch him in the mouth at one point during the Henson deal. Tom Sr. said that most of the 'crap' that happened he didn't even know about it since Tom did not want to share it with his Dad for fear he would be pressured by his folks to leave U of M. The Michigan stories were the best part of that book honestly.

    Also,this past off season, U of M had their 10 year National Championship reunion. The team Griese QB'd and Brady went to the reunion and he and Carr seemed very friendly. Tom seems genuine in his affection for Carr and vice versa.

    The thing that I noticed about Tom and his connections with Michigan are that he could be very bitter about the things that went on there, but he just seems so proud of being part of the university and never had said a negative word about Michigan or anyone involved. He represents Michigan well and for that, the alumini are lucky. He could have thrown that coach, program under the buss.

    Now, I see Brady as being used by them. After all he dealt with there, he is now someone they dangle out in front of recruits as a carrot to get them to come join them. He is used for more than that, they invite him to come to most home games (of course he can't due to his own schedules) and want his name and face associated so desperately with thier program. Remember their most recent Rose Bowl? They showed Tom on the sidelines more than the game!

    If your Brady, does this piss you off now being used by an university that thought you were average and as a Senior made you share the responsibilities with Henson? Well, if it were you or me, it might - a normal person would feel used and being exploited and bitter... but we all know Tom Brady is not normal ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  4. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great comment. Thanks!
     
  5. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The reason I raised the subject is that a lot of contemporary observers felt that Carr was not going on the basis of what he could see with his eyes, but rather on the basis of prevailing media and other opinion about Henson.
     
  6. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    This was obviously the case, what Brady did was win, and a lot of guys (leaders of that team) respected Brady and felt that he was their best chance at winning, all you really had to do was look at the numbers.

    Brady had IT back then and the players knew it. Just another example of media hype, the kind of which we are all too familiar with around here.

    Always always always take what the media says with a grain of salt. All they really do is drum up the masses, esp. in the U.S. A lot of them make me want to vomit...
     
  7. Flatout

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    I think the truth is always somewhere in between. On one hand, some of the media built up the QB controversy during Brady's years at UM after he started winning SB's in order to artificially enhance his "under-dog" image. On the other hand, there is no doubt that he had to have been frustrated to some extent with his situation.

    I know, that Brady has said NOTHIN bad in public about the university. He DID attend the reunion and by all accounts was happy and even granted an interview to the student newspaper. You have to remember that QB's at Michigan have ALWAYS been subject to intense criticism. The most recent QB I can remember who was always universally loved was John Wrangler. The fans are very unreasonable when it comes to QB's at UM.

    This year, during the season he also gave an interview to Michigan Replay, the weekly local show that reviews each UM game and is filmed at Schembechler Hall. The fact that he took time off THIS season to film an interview with a program that will not be seen outside the state of Michigan, I think says a lot about how he still feels about the university. Also, he spoke very well about both Carr and UM during this interview.
     
  8. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    thanks. sounds like you know what you're talking about. great perspective.
     
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Negativity just eats at you anyway. You can see what a positive attitude has done for Tom. It should be a lesson for everybody.
     
  10. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    For what it's worth, Ty Law and Charles Woodson also have a problem with Carr.
     
  11. Flatout

    Flatout Rookie

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    Ty Law DOES have a problem. That's why he always gives out the name of his high school instead of UM in pre-game introductions. It had a lot to do with the fact that Law wanted to leave early and Carr inexplicably didn't support him but went ahead and supported Woodson two years later. Law didn't take kindly to this and hard feelings ensued.

    Woodson has NO problem that I've ever heard of. In any case, he has a bigger presence at UM than Brady. He has gone to 2 of the last 4 OSU vs. Michigan games (during the NFL season) and has visited practice before. He was also at the reunion with Brady this year.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  12. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You could be right. I always took the fact that Woodson uses "Fremont, Ohio" as his alma mater for the same reasons that Law uses "Alquippa High School". Maybe there's another reason. But I've been to Fremont, Ohio, and it doesn't seem to be the type of place you'd make it a point to tell people you're from.
     
  13. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    one of the "old sayings" that seems very true to me is that "Revenge is a dish best served cold." To me, it means that you don't get consumed with anger, but that you keep your attitude positive and then, usually years later, you do something or you accomplish something that puts things right.

    it's clear that TB values his association with the University of Michigan and for that reason alone would likely never dis one of its most prominent representatives.

    we will never know what transpired between Brady and Carr in 1999 or what Brady really felt when he was being benched for an over-hyped player that many observers thought was inferior to him, unless TB decides to say so in the future/

    we do know that brady did not like falling down the draft board that day, as he has said so quite often. we also know that the perception that he was not good enough to hold the starting job on his own in his senior (fifth) year was one of the things that pushed him down that board. i guess we can all infer how we would feel if something like that happened to us, but it's not fair to read that into Tom Brady.

    in any event, if Brady had held that draft against Carr, he would have delivered his cold dish of revenge many times over by now. and, he would have done it in the best, most classy way, possible...with only the two people involved really knowing for sure.
     
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