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Linebackers can be found in the later rounds.

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by MrBigglesWorth, Feb 13, 2008.

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  1. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    Have we as a franchise been too picky when it comes to picking a linebacker?

    At what point does speed and youth outweigh the intelligence of a savy veteran? Speed can make up mistakes and experience can prevent them. Where's the middle ground?

    Lance Briggs was a third rounder.
    Vrabel a third rounder
    AD a sixth rounder
    Demeco Ryans in the early second
    Zach Thomas a 5th rounder
    David Harris- 2nd round
    Karlos Dansby- 2nd round

    If we never draft linebackers we can never find a diamind in the rough and never develop this player.

    Are we just bad at drafting linebackers?

    I get kind of sick of hearing the "we need big linebackers that fit our system"

    We need speed and become an attacking defense.
  2. chunkypony

    chunkypony Rookie

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    I'm all for drafting Jonathan Goff in the later (3rd, 4th) rounds and see how he works out.

    Not to mention Oscar Lua. I still want to see something out of him. He was a late round pick.
  3. BostonBullit

    BostonBullit Rookie

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    now list all the LBers drafted in later rounds who have been complete busts. you can run down the list of later round draft gems at almost any position but you have to keep it in perspective - for every gem there where probably 15 JAGs and a couple total duds
  4. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Thats really not the later rounds. 2nd and 3rd rounds are techinically still really good players who just need some work.

    Zach Thomas and Adailius were both diamond in the rough players because after round 4 anything you can get that can become a starter is gravy.
  5. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

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    a perfect example of this would be Monty Beisel, who was drafted in the 4th round (pick 107) out of Kansas State.
  6. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    you can list busts for every position in the NFL. how come you cann find a jarvis green or a kacur or a o'calloghan but why have they stayed away from linebackers?

    some may say they haven't by having woods and lua on the roster.

    I think it comes down to BB having trust in some of these guys to give them legit snaps.
  7. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Why are Kaczur and O'Callaghan listed there? They seem like average types, if that. We got as much from Gorin and Ashworth as we have from Kaczur and O'Callaghan.

    We've drafted a lot of LBs over the years. And cut a lot of them too.

    That being said, last year's draft was annoying because the Patriots showed complete disregard for the value of their picks, and meanwhile, we could have used a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw.
  8. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Woods and EA have been big pickups for our team and both went undrafted.

    Last year we tried to draft Stewart Bradley but was taken by the Eagles a few picks earlier. Same with several other LB's. They find players who they like and stick to their guns. Jeremy Mincey we drafted and although he didnt make it here has caught on well with the Jaguars.
  9. FarScapeR

    FarScapeR Rookie

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    Don't forget Justin Rogers, whom we lost on waivers.
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We need speed and become an attacking defense

    That statement contradicts the defensive philosophy of Bill Belichick.
    You will never see BB fielding a team with small fast linebackers, or playing and attacking style of defense.
    You either need to accept that you will not get what you want or start calling for BBs firing.
  11. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I'm sure if he could draft lawrence taylor he would(was LT an attacking LB?). I'm not looking for tiny linebackers..... is bruschi huge or seau? i'm looking for speed. so BB can get back to being creative and blitzing.
  12. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    Our track record for LBs via the draft is pretty bleak. Vrabel, Sea, and AD were FAs, but $ are hard to come by now. Alexander cannot get on the field at LB, and neither can Woods (save for one memorable play). There is precious little in the cupboard and little hope for help in the draft. Maybe they have some other plan.
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We can draft as many 4th round or later linebackers as seems reasonable. They can compete with Lua, Woods and Alexander for the position of emergency backups, special team star, practice squad and 2008 binky. You will compete with those who with those who want to waste their late draft picks on an OL.

    While we wait for one of these to step up to be a starter, or someone who should get significant reps, we need another way to get 3-4 linebackers.

    BTW, please list all successful linebackers we've drafted in the 4th round or later. There's Banta-Cain who contributed in his 4th year. Who else?

    No, IMHO, later draftees are always a long shot, but especially for 3-4 linebackers we would like to contribute in their first two years.

    If you want a late round LB, find one who has played for another team for four years.
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    It's a bit of myth that "Linebackers can be found in the later rounds". The LBs of TOMORROW who can be ready to start 2-4 years from now certainly can be found later in the draft.

    But if you are expecting someone who can be a significant contributor THIS SEASON you're better off looking in free agency or in the Top 10 of the draft.

    You are correct that Belichick is picky about his LBs - he could speak to that better than I but his preferred LB combining speed, smarts and excellent tackling skills isn't easily found - and as more and more coaches copy BB's model, they are that much more in demand.

    Those that have been good fits for us in past drafts I've felt have been gone well before #15. After that it's difficult to determine whether you're getting the next Monty Biesel or the next Mike Vrabel.
  15. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Following are the linebackers drafted by Bellichick with the draft

    round in parenthesis: Tisdale (7), Turner (7), Banta-Cain (7), Claridge

    (5), Mincey (6), Rogers (6), and Lua (7). No wonder The Pats don't

    have any young linebacker to replace any veterans who retire or

    leave as free agents.
  16. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I guess my contention is that the Pats aren't patient with the linebackers(Mincey, Justin Rodgers) and aren't given legit snaps until it happens to be a big game(ie. Alexander, Woods)

    Do we continually want to bring in 30 year old linebackers?
  17. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I think your contention is 100% correct. Rather than devote a lot of

    time grooming young linebackers, the Pats prefer to use free agency

    to get veteran linebackers. The reason they are oftentimes 30 years

    old is simply that 25 year old linebackers are worth more on the open

    market. I think the Pats should use Andre Tippett as a tutor for their

    young linebackers.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  18. patriotsdynasty12189

    patriotsdynasty12189 Rookie

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    Seau and Bruschi are both pretty big guys. You cant just have smaller linebackers in a 3-4. They will get mauled by the Guards.
  19. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    Very true... but I think the Pats could find linebackers who are 250.... look at David Harris.

    The defense goes as the linebackers go. They need to be able to put pressur eon the QB with a 4man rush.
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ding ding ding we have a winner...
  21. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    chu ching chu ching........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
  22. patriotsdynasty12189

    patriotsdynasty12189 Rookie

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    250 big ones is pretty big.
  23. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would rather have 30 year old experienced veteran linebackers brought in every year than to be forced to use 6th round draft choice and UDFA's in games to help develop them.
  24. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    1) I really hope that we've received more from Kaczur/O'C than from Ashworth/Gorin. After all, we spent 3rd/5th-round draft picks on the former, and nothing on the latter.

    2) Kinda tells me that we've drafted the wrong LBs.

    3) I couldn't agree more.
  25. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Bart Scott undrafted free agent 2002
    James Harrison undrafted free agent 2002
    Stephen Cooper undrafted free agent 2003
  26. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    How did Monty Beisel and Chad Brown work out for the New England Patriots in 2005?

    Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Staceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    "They're picking on me again!"
  27. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Andy -
    How can you say that the Pats don't have an Attacking style defense? The Pats DO have an attacking style defense, but they LIMIT how many attackers they use to put pressure on the opposing team.

    Also, I believe that Tedy falls into the category of small (height) and fast LB. Now, he's not small, weight wise. And Tedy isn't as fast as Vilma or Demarcus Ware, but Tedy was very fast prior to his stroke. He also read plays well and didn't over-run them.

    I think that the Pats will continue to try and add young talent that fits their mold. What I hope they do, though, is decide that they can go with a earlier round pick and show some patience with that pick. Allow them to develop with the likes of Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel and Don Davis helping them.
  28. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I think you saying that the Pats showed complete disregard for the value of their picks is laughable. Particularly when you use Bradshaw as your example. A player who wouldn't have made the Pats roster and would have been cut and taken by someone else. The Pats had Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk entrenched as their top 3 RBs. They also had Heath Evans as their FB/RB. Where would they have played Bradshaw? Do you really think he'd have beat out Morris or Faulk?

    Rogers was cut in an attempt to slide him onto the practice squad. Unfortunately, the Cowboys wanted the home town boy (Rogers played at SMU).

    As for Kaczur and O'Callaghan, the Pats have gotten more out of them than they did from Ashworth and Gorin. And before you start saying that the Pats won two SBs with Ashworth and Gorin, remember that those teams had a ton of other talent as well and that you'd be hard pressed to say that Kaczur LOST the SB for the Pats.
  29. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I like Bart Scott... Wanted the Pats to bring him in when he was going to be a FA..

    Harrison could be a nice addition for the Pats if he was ever allowed to walk. Though Harrison isn't the size the Pats look for in their OLBs. Harrison is the size of their ILBs.

    I don't think Cooper has been all that great for the Chargers. He got the position by default (Steve Foley going insane and Donnie Edwards being released).
  30. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, your point? I was the one who indicated that when there is a severe need that we cannot depend on 6th and 7th rounders. We cannot wait until midseason and find that we have no ILB's as we did in 2005. We need to use the resources we have now. We need to plan to trade for a LB, use our #7, pick up a high-profile LB, or pick up a couple of LB's capable of starting (expect one to work out), or a combination of the above.

    The same is true for corner, expect for corners, we are looking to 2nd and 3rd round draft choices to pick up 2 potential starters, rather than the #7.

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