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Light talks about 14 career surgeries, Welker, Brady

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MoLewisrocks, May 21, 2012.

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  1. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. PatsWickedPissah

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    Light says Brady plays "Until they tell him to go home. I think he said that publicly. There are people that are cut in a certain way,{Drew Brees} ... these quarterbacks are cut from the same cloth. They compete in everything they do. It's in their DNA. It's who they are. It's what they're made of. Until somebody says to them, 'Hey, look, we don't want you', they're not going to go away."

    Gosh another source brainwashed by Mo to agree that Brady plans, body health willing, to play until he's a geezer.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    14 surgeries.

    There was a debate here a while back about Football not being as dangerous as Boxing. I dont hear of boxers frequently going under the knife for shoulder, knee, ankle or any other kind of joint injuries. Last season, I stopped counting at all the ACL/MCL injuries at 40.

    Every time you go in to surgery there is the risk of complications. And, now the concussion problem is coming to light.
     
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, among other complications I know at least for older folks (or those with complications like early onset dementias) just exposure to anesthesia is an increasing risk. Many seem to lose ground mentally exponentially as they undergo one procedure after another. Often begins to take longer for the drugs to clear your system, and the longer it takes the greater the risk of lingering impact on memory. Have a friend diagnosed with early onset alzheimers several years ago and her neorosurgeon was adamant from day 1 that she not undergo anesthesia other than in life threatening circumstances because the anesthesia alone would potentially precipitate a sudden and massive downturn.
     
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Florio has a little more from Matt. I think I always sensed that Matt didn't quite give the **** that say a Brady did. He kind of always gave his critics short shrift. Probably the smarter player to be is the one who takes advantage of the opportunity while it lasts and then gets the hell out of Dodge. Yet as fans we want them to live it and be defined by it. "I'd play for free"... Maybe we got some culture changing to do, too.

    Matt Light will be perfectly content in retirement | ProFootballTalk
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  6. PatsFanSince74

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    Matt's exact quote is illuminating.

    "I knew the risks and the things associated with the game of football, and I've gotten to a point in my life where I was like, 'You know what, be happy, don't try to bite off more than you can chew, and look forward to the next great challenge.'
    "Asked how many concussions he thinks he had playing football, Light didn't provide a direct answer, but recalled two from going against defensive end Kimo von Oelhoffen, who from 1994-2007 played for the Bengals, Steelers, Jets and Eagles."


    Sounds like he made a very thoughtful assessment of his young life both in the context of Crohn's and the context of injury and decided to maximize the possibility of a productive and healthy middle and old age.

    I'm impressed that the science around Head Trauma in general and how it impacts NFL players in particular is still in its infancy. A "concussion" is understood now to be a very serious thing, but, more importantly, the line between concussion and other less observable but still serious forms of head injury is unclear at best.

    When I think of guys who have been taking hits on a regular basis since High School or Pop Warner days, I wonder how many un- or mis-diagnosed concussions and head injuries a typical NFL player has sustained, especially if he plays a "Skill" position.

    I often wonder what I would say to one of these guys if they were a friend of mine or a relative from whom they sought advice.

    I'd certainly be attentive to how much they love the game and how dedicated they are to their teammates and how important football is to them and how much they want to keep on playing, but I think, as someone who cared about them, I'd have an obligation to get them to look down the line and assess what is in their long term best interests.

    There is little in life that we actually control when it comes to the truly important things, as PatJew's thread has painfully reminded many of us lately, but presenting one's mind and body for punishment this intense much past the mid 30's is something that can be controlled and about which these guys should all be very thoughtful...as thoughtful as Matt Light has apparently been.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Many post here. They believe every move the Patriots make is golden.

    j
    True enough and theres always risk of infection from the hospital.

    Sorry to hear about that. Doctors make mistakes everyday.
     
  8. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What you are discounting though is what percentage of outcomes like Seau's are even related to traumatic injury and what percentage are simply the result of untreated depression, the kind 1 in 5 of us non concussed folks are apparently likely to experience. Junior's restaurant closed last week, 2 weeks after his death. King wondered aloud in MMQB if Junior wasn't experiencing financial difficulties.

    And coupled with just inability to adapt to life after football, as John Lynch spoke at length about demands not rushing to judgement leaping to the conclusion that Junior's suicide was precipitated by anything more than the kind of depression he and many other players who do love the game experience when forced to walk away. Lynch is dealing with it well, but he knows lots of guys aren't. He's just sad Junior appears to him in hindsight to have been one of them.

    The trauma related consequences tend to impact them later on down the road if at all, with preliminary studies hinting at tripling their chances of suffering from TCE, Alzheimer's, ALS as compared to the general population. In the first 4 years the depression appears to be more of a mental health problem (related to loss of self worth due to their inability to continue to do what they are driven to past a relatively young age) that many don't want to admit to suffering from and therefore don't seek treatment or counseling for. Drug and alcohol abuse also factor in in some cases, as potentially does abuse of PED's. It's more often a decade or two later that the cumulative effects of earlier brain injury or even injuries in general really begin to manifest themselves as these guys approach 50.

    Forcing guys out early pits their short term emotional welfare and long term financial position against potential long term health consequnces they may not face. They aren't all going to potentially end up in an assisted living or a dementia unit let alone due to the length of their career. More of them percentage wise than the rest of us may end up in a fix, but they should also be in far better position to pay for care than most of us will be. I say this from experience. Health insurance doesn't cover that care. Expensive long term care plans and/or private funds do.

    Matt never loved the game. Hell, he didn't even really like it. You didn't note those comments. It was merely a means to an end that he found himself with an opportunity to persue. You can't mandate those who do love it not to and to do what he chose to do. He assumed a greater risk earlier on than many of them might have. He could have died persuing a lineman's career with Crone's. But then it could have killed him anyway so he rolled the dice and made tens of millions along the way doing something he wasn't particularly driven to do. Choices, life is all about them.

    Light does seems to be down with the knowing what I do I'd do it all again for what it provided me and my family mentality though. And that is their right. All you can do is encourage those who struggle either with the transition or the potential consequences to seek counseling and treatment if necessary all along the way.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  9. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    Matt Light will have a great career as an analyst if he wants it. I don't think I've ever seen a player as comfortable in front of the camera as he.
     
  10. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up

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    Have a friend diagnosed with early onset alzheimers several years ago and her neorosurgeon was adamant from day 1 that she not undergo anesthesia other than in life threatening circumstances because the anesthesia alone would potentially precipitate a sudden and massive downturn.

    That's not a mistake, the neurosurgeon is correct, and more is being discovered about this every year.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  11. PatsWickedPissah

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    My mother died from this horrific disease. And the anesthesia warning illustrates how little we actually understand how it interacts with the brain. Lots more to learn. Faster please.
     
  12. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    14 surgeries. No wonder athletes have so many problems with prescription drugs after they are done
     
  13. PatsFanSince74

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    Thanks for the thoughtful response, Mo. You make several good points. I'll take them paragraph by paragraph

    One and Two.
    I wasn't even thinking of Seau, as I would 100% agree with you that other psychological or environmental factors were likely to play a significant role in a tragic outcome like this at so young an age. And, indeed, people who leave a lifetime's work in any field often describe the experience as hitting a brick wall at 100MPH. But, there too, as extreme an outcome as suicide usually implies other complicating emotional and environmental factors. So, we're in agreement there.

    Three
    Agreed and thanks for the data. If you re-read my posts on this topic over the last couple of weeks you can see that they all refer to the impact of trauma in middle age and later.

    Four
    Here we do disagree. Your use of the phrase "forcing guys out" introduces an element that I never brought into play. I only spoke of what advice might be good to give to someone as they weigh their options, not of "forcing" them to make one decision or another.

    Our disagreement centers on how each of us interprets what we both have to admit is limited information.

    You argue that "short term emotional" and "long term financial" benefits and issues should be brought into play and that, ironically, enhanced wealth would enable a player to pay for the "aftercare" that his trauma might require.

    I think that would be the worst possible reason to continue playing. Instead of thinking along those lines, players, the NFLPA and the NFL should be thinking of including a far more robust long-term care program among NFL players retirement benefits. Saying that a factor in a player's decision to continue making money by playing in the NFL even if he is uncertain about the damage to his health might be that he can take care of himself after that damage is done is a logic that I do not care to follow and would break new ground in the definition of The Prisoner's Dilemma.

    Five
    I can neither agree nor disagree with most of this paragraph, as I just don't know Mr. Light. I do agree with your final sentence, which leads into your final paragraph: "Choices, life is all about them."

    Six
    I agree with what you say here and find it inconsistent with the view you take in Paragraph Four.

    I feel that any player who has managed to be playing in his mid-thirties (defined for the sake of discussion as 33--37) should sit down with a support team, including medical and mental health professionals, coaches who can take an honest view on his long-term prospects at his position, fellow players who can give him honest feedback about his play and affect, close friends and, of course, family. Over a period of time, they should assess with the player the risks and benefits of continuing to play, taking into account not just his NFL experience but his College, High School and Pop Warner days. These people would form the nucleus of a support group as he transitions out of the NFL either right away or down the line.

    I think that what Mr. Brady's father is doing is probably going to prove to be a case study for this kind of intervention. From all that is reported and from everything he says, no one knows Tom Brady better than his Dad. (I'll reply to your specific posts on that topic in the thread you started, so no need to get distracted here. I have a day job, so it might take me until this evening to get around to it.)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
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