Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Jan 18, 2012.
No maverick4 ... I mean Titus ... you're not fooling anyone ...
What kind of rant was that? I've blocked members for months at a time my brathuh. It's not a big deal. So don't make up lies you can't back-up.
Why do I feel dirty after reading your posts?
Is this not racist?
Barack Obama | Black Unemployment | White House | The Daily Caller
Only "white conservatives are capable of racism"
I'ts impossible for Left Wing Liberals or Minoritys to be racist.
The N word is racist but White Mother F-cker is just shrugged off like water off a duck.
Maybe that Congressman is contemplating just who would make political hay of it, KD and Harry. And we have our answer, don't we?
ah, he's baiting, got it.
Why don't you tell us what you think racism is and give us an answer yourself.
looks like harry caught another Chris rock special on HBO. so upset at not being able to call people n***** when Rock uses the word freely...
What specifically are you referring to, Harry. Who used those terms? Can you provide links that this problem is widespread?
Of course, there are bigots, but black bigots have almost no power, while white bigots run the Republican Party, wanting to legalize discrimination, annul gay marriages, allow women to earn less than men for the same job, and so on.
Bigots should not be give passes based on the amount of power they may or may not have. I don't believe in "bigot and racism make up calls"
This "right" to say the "n" word debate leaves me uneasy. I don't wish to use it but it's wrong for anyone to sanctimoniously stand by and determine that I cannot use it. I'm kind of tired of the Harry wishes he gets to say it to routine. We pretty much celebrate the use of the word by one group and while at the same time damn the use of it by another.
I really understand that racism and bigotry are still significant forces in this country but double standards tend to make people dig in and possibly create ill feelings that wouldn't have even been there before.
There is no double standard. The experience of being a minority is a lot different than that of being the majority. It's the majority culture that defines what's good and bad. There was no such thing as black pride or gay pride, except as a response to bigotry. In the 1910s, so-called experts (who had the ear of Teddy Roosevelt) believed that Italians, Jews, and Irish were inferior races (not ethnicities), not much above blacks, and well below the superior (Teutonically or Nordically derived) Anglo Saxons. That's why even today we still have Hibernian Halls, Italian-American groups, and so on.
The prejudice that you fail to see is that which permeates our daily lives. A minority lives a much different experience than a member of the majority. They live in a society that subtly devalues them, though people like Harry Boy, when it comes to race, do not even try to be subtle.
And, besides, what really are you talking about? Are you talking about the tiny privilege that minorities get to take bigoted words used by the majority society and give them a more positive spin. Just about all minorities--gays, blacks, Jews, even Italians and Irish--do that. It's a response to bigotry, a way of trying to neutralize negative stereotypes.
And lastly, why are you seemingly taking Harry Boy's side--it's Harry Boy who for months sought out horrific crimes by blacks and posted threads on those, and makes the absurd claim that it's okay to use white m-f. There are low class people in every culture who use rude language, just as Harry Boy used to crudely belittle his one-breasted neighbor, perhaps making fun of women with breast cancer. The vast majority of people are not that cruel, crude, or transparent.
No and that's the automatic conclusion that I don't like. I don't care that anyone gets to use that or any other word, especially when the use is positive. I don't like that the reason I can't use a word is because it would be presumed that it was a more negative spin. What it's not possible for me to put a positive spin on a word? Can't you imagine a day when white guys, straight guys, or just guys can use these words affectionately or just humorously? Do we have to prove a certain worthiness to use language?
I'm not taking Harry's side. I just don't like the notion that he just want to call black people n's and get no grief for it.
I think, in a way, rightly or wrongly, that yes, we do have to prove a "certain worthiness." That's how things become accepted, slowly but surely, when people prove they don't mean anything negative by whatever it is they are saying.
When I worked in the ER it became fashionable for the female nurses to address one another as "*****," or "slut," in a (yes, I understand how stupid it sounds) lovable fashion - and we would freely refer to one another by such terms....because we knew each other, because we had been through the fire together and because we trusted and respected and liked one another.....however, if a nurse from ICU came down and addressed one of us as "*****" or "slut" that bird would not have flown. Nor would we have addressed anyone outside of our circle as such unless it was someone we'd known for a long time, liked and respected and trusted.
My son hangs in a loose group of friends from high school 12 years ago. A few of them are gay and have since come out. They routinely address one another with some normally uncomplimentary names - but I've seen what happens when someone outside the "circle" of trust mutters the same word - and trust me, it's not pretty and I can assure you that the person who dared to utter the term will probably NOT be doing it again.
Maybe, if we prove we mean nothing by a word, if we prove ourselves trustworthy and we show respect oen-by-one-by-one it'll become acceptable. Maybe not. Maybe it shouldn't be open to all. Maybe it should remain "special." You can call your wife, "Baby," all the time and maybe your close friends can eventually mock you and call her "Baby," and you all laugh and pretty soon they're all calling her "Baby" and it becomes sort of a pet name that you all use - but I'm pretty sure that as soon as some strange dude on the bus says, "Hey, Baby," to her you (and the rest of your friends) are going to take exception to his familiarity.
You're right, they shouldn't -- otoh, since what you're basically alluding to is that there is a difference b/t bigotry and discrimination, each should be called out. Yet there are many people who don't care about either.
It's not against the law for you to use it. It's your choice, just as it's other people's choice to react as they may.
Then maybe you should teach harry what racism actually is and see if he then stops his whining about instances of so-called racism that aren't.
I don't think anybody celebrates its use.
It's only a double standard if you want to ignore context and complain about something that has no effect on you.
And if people dig in and have ill feelings b/c some people can use a word like n*gger that they cannot use without disapproval from many people, the problem isn't the so-called double standard. The problem is within the people who dig in and harbor ill feelings b/c they can't use the word.
I think we do, actually, with some terms, because they can offend. So context is what matters -- how you're using it, and among whom.
I don't have any black friends whom I can use the n-word with. I do have friends who are some minority that I can use terms that potentially would be offensive -- a handful of Jewish friends, a couple women I can use the c-word around, 1 gay friend. And I have friends who can use ethnic terms around me.
Why? Because we know the terms aren't being used in a hurtful way. We know the terms aren't being used as a slur towards them or towards the entire identity group.
Among strangers, those terms wouldn't be wise to use, because the strangers wouldn't know it's not hateful.
(I'm really surprised we have this conversation over and over again here, particularly since this forum is almost entirely men, and a lot of men joke with one another, often using words that in other contexts would be simply unacceptable. Maybe that's never been the case with you, and others here, but I have a hard time believing that all the people who seem to ignore context with this particular word don't engage in that kind of joking among their male friends. and if you have engaged in that kind of banter, you know that you can say something to a friend that could easily lead to being punched in the face if it were instead said to a stranger.)
edit: in other words, what mrs said
Let the N word die, Chris Rock is a f-cking ass hole for using the word just to get a few laughs and the people that laugh at him are stinking god damn hypocrits.
The word "Wop" was very insulting to Italians, that word today is practically unheard of it has alomost disappeared, many young people today have never heard it, the word was allowed to die, the reason it is almost dead NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY uses it, you don't hear Italians going around calling each other "Wops" do you.
If the people that it offends the most insist on using it then live with it the word will be around FOREVER thanks to ass holes like Chris Rock.
Poor harry, can't use the n-word w/o disapproval, yet Chris Rock can.
How dare other people, particularly somebody black, determine for themselves what they find offensive!
Talk about your bullsh*t, harry.
My couple friends who are italian and I all jokingly call each other wops, as do various family members. Same goes for other terms/slurs.
And it's fine b/c of the context.
Maybe you're also now offended because we can call each other wops yet we'd tell you to f off if, say, you were to say it to one of us. Funny how righties get so sensitive over certain things while pretending it's the left that's too easily offended.
Right, it's blacks' fault that white racists are racist.
Go it -- always the fault of blacks, Muslims, etc....
I don't know alot of Italians anymore...but I do know alot of Irish - and yeah, we do refer to one another as "Shanty Irish" and "Mick" pretty freely. I presume that Italians do the same. Years ago my first husband was Sicilian and they routinely used derogatory Italian terms when speaking to one another.
But heck, don't ask me if derogatory Italian names are dead, ask your hero, Rush.
Rush Limbaugh On-Air Slur Leaves Italian-American Group Seeking Formal Apology
Live with it.
Your first example was the kind of thing I was getting at. I've been around groups like that and it's fun and liberating. I have a little problem of the circle of friends privilege theory even though I understand it and can imagine being part of it. Feeling "privileged or entitled" to have access to language reserved for your/my groups also can lead to and institutionalize the same kind of prejudices you don't like of the ones that use the words to hurt. It's like everyone not in your/my group should be excluded. You wind up demanding that unless or until they pass the circle of friends test, they're guilty.Guilty without the benefit of a trial. Branded offensive, branded bigots or branded racists when there's no proof they are. Someone who stumbles and was trying to be cute or funny or indeed was just trying to fit in doesn't deserve the "not pretty" treatment and shouldn't be bullied into not doing it again. Can you see how in that case the innocent or playful attempt to be part of a group that is met with a "not pretty" response is not much better than someone that purposely would use language to hurt?
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