Welcome to PatsFans.com

LG please not Ryan Wendell

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by crowell33, Aug 8, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,845
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Ummm, thats pretty much what an NFL G looks like.
  3. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,236
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    +1.

    Heck, that's more or less what Mankins looks like these days. . . .
  4. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    So im guessing that we're going to have 800 threads about the o-line between now, and game 1 :violent:
  5. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    That could perhaps be between now and before game 10. I don't think Mankins wants to lose a year towards his UFA status, especially if next year is a lockout.
  6. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    lets hope its not that long of a wait :D
  7. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,626
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12 / 1 / -2

    My Jersey:


    Considering they have pro bowl LG they do not wish to employ, it should be a topic
  8. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    what do you mean 'they do not wish to employ'? they made him a very good offer. He's the one who thinks he deserves more, and he's one of the ONLY people that thinks he's worth it.
  9. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Rules are different this year. If Mankins doesn't report by Tuesday, he loses 2010 as an accrued year. Probably not a big deal since the next CBA is unlikely to have more than a 4 year UFA provision.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,358
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +58 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't know if Wendall can play, but based on his picture alone he looks like a prototypical guard. The Pats' o-line system is one that uses smaller faster linemen for the most part. The Pats do not use the huge beefy loads like other teams do. If you looked at all of the Pats line in street clothes and didn't know who they were, you wouldn't peg them off the bat as NFL offensive linemen.
  11. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,236
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Apparently that rule only applies to players under contract; since Mankins didn't sign his tender, he's not under contract.

    OTOH, a certain "Island" in New Jersey is subject to this rule. . . . :singing:
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,358
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +58 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Yeah, Mankins only loses his accrued season if he doesn't report by week 10. The only significant player around the league that I know of in danger of losing his 2010 eligibility if he doesn't show up by Tuesday is Darrell Revis. If Revis doesn't show up to camp by Tuesday, I think the Jets should expect the guy could sit the year. I never thought a player would sit out a season ever again, but it could happen this year because of the uncapped year.
  13. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Technically Mankins is a free agent and not under contract - but he's an RFA and of course that's the big sticking point here... had we not been in this CBA transition he WOULD be an UFA.

    So I guess some of the questions Mankins would be asking himself is whether the next CBA would continue to treat him like an RFA even if he sat out the entire season.

    On that count I think it's unlikely the next CBA would contain a provision for players in Mankins situation who sat out all 2010, seeing as they already served an extra year as an RFA.

    That being said, if Mankins held out all season, followed by a lockout in 2011, and entered free agency in 2012 if a new CBA can be hammered out, that's a long time of inactivity and Mankins should be seriously wondering what the market value for a 30 year old inside lineman who hasn't played in 2 years would be, assuming the CBA is even friendly to the players in general or players in Mankin's situation in particular.

    We don't have all the details of the Patriots offer to Mankins but even a deal that's 20% less than Jahiri Evan's contract (or at least that's what Mankin's agent was complaining about) strikes me as the better alternative for Mankins.

    Jahiri Evans was 26 when that contract was signed this year. Mankins would be 30 with 2 years of inactivity in 2012 and if the owners get their way the salary cap isn't going to rise as dramatically in the future.

    That's a long time to wait for a payoff that I think would be less than his current offer - and he'd be missing the guaranteed money over the next 2 years as well, and be 2 years closer to retirement.

    If Mankins is thinking this through clearly, injury or no injury to Kaczur, it's in his best interest to settle with the Patriots and take the cash he can now, before the lockout.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    If there's a lockout and lost season, every player will have been "out of football" for a year. The lost time is essentially meaningless under those circumstances.
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The point isn't that every player in the NFL will have been sitting out a year.

    It's that Mankins will have been sitting out 2 years - and my guess is that a 30 year old left guard who hasn't played in the last 2 years will be worth LESS than a 28 year old left guard who has been a consistent player for the immediate past seasons.

    If Mankins truly feels that he'd come out ahead by refusing something in the range of but less than Jahiri Evans's Year 1 payout of $19 million, and sitting out for the next 2 years then he should definately proceed with this course of action.

    But that would have to be one helluva big signing bonus in 2012 to make this worthwhile to him, and again, my guess is that a 2012 contract offer to a 30 year old OL who hasn't played in 2 years won't get as large an offer the one the Patriots made to an active, consistent 28 year old OL in 2010... especially in a new CBA that is bound to be more owner friendly.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    And my point is that nobody will have been playing in the immediate past season.
  17. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Which has absolutely nothing to with my point - that Mankins is cutting off his nose to spite his face, losing a bigger signing bonus/contract now for a smaller one in 2 years, and having no income for that period of time either.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Actually, it does. You were pointing to the years of inaction. I was noting that a lost season would mean that every NFL player had a year of inaction (albeit some players may decide to play for some other league). Your claim about the smaller contract is conjecture. My point about the period of inaction is not.
  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Yes.... you've got me... with pretty much the same argument that those who point out that the Theory of Evolution is just a theory. You and the Creationists can proudly claim debate victory while engaging in conjecture about why God buried so many dinosaur bones 5000 years ago when he created the Universe.

    Of course I'm not comparing Mankins to other players coming off of 1 year of inactivity compared to his 2... I'm comparing Mankins and his likely contract offerings in his prime at age 28 to a the contract offerings to Mankins at age 30 following 2 years of inactivity entering a new CBA that's most likely more owner friendly.

    You might be opposed to common sense conjecture, but I promise you, Logan Mankins and his agent are very much engaged in exactly this sort of conjecture.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:

    There's nothing common sense about your conjecture, though. Whatevver Mankins and his agent are engaged in, it's pretty clear that they aren't following your path to date. You're making an assumption and jumping on it, nothing more.
  21. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    :rofl:

    I think I'm pretty safe assuming that a 30 year old player who's been out of the game for two years will get less of a contract offer than a 28 year old active player in his prime.

    If you think it's common sense that the 30 year old inactive player will get more than his 28 year old counterpart under that scenario please offer that common sense to us.

    And while you're at it we'd love to hear more about how those wacky evolutionists have simply made an assumption and are jumping on it nothing more.

    They don't fully appreciate God's sense of humor throwing us off the CORRECT trail by burrying all those dinosaur bones!
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,755
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +70 / 3 / -1

    My Jersey:


    Your ability to misread the posts of others continues to impress me. Since you can't just admit something as obvious as that your "years off" argument is undercut by the fact that all players would have had a year off at that point, there's really no point in continuing this discussion.
  23. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,626
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12 / 1 / -2

    My Jersey:

    Please explain how this helps the pats
  24. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Koppen's not a big center ( 6'2" 295 ). If Wendell plays LG, he is the smallest OLineman on the team. He came to Pats listed at 6'2" 280, although he reported is up to 6'2" 290. With Wendell next to Koppen, my concern is that Brady has the pocket pushed into his lap on an ongoing basis.
  25. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Sorry, missed the "under contract" part.

    Anyway, I don't think it changes the dynamic. Mankins has 5 accrued seasons already and that should be enough in the next CBA. The real question is what does Mankins believe will maximize his opportunity for a big contract in 2011. While Mankins can choose to sit out regular season games, it doesn't mean the Pats will sit idly by waiting for him. When Mankins chooses to report, it doesn't mean the Pats will disrupt their OL rotation and slide him into a starting role.

    So does Mankins believe a team will give max OG money to a 29 yo that hasn't done any football activities in over a year? Doubtful. Mankins needs to play a full season and play well to get what he wants.

    Brady is poised to have a huge year. All the RBs are in a contract year. A huge offensive year is entirely possible for the Pats. Remember 2007? Light, Koppen and Mankins all went to the Pro Bowl.

    Getting to be a UFA is half the battle. Getting to be a UFA coming off a huge season is what you need to score big money.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  26. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    So what is the answer if Mankins wants to be a free agent next year and maximize his income? Is it really to play for the patriots for $1.6M. Perhaps it is, but that is NOT going to happen. The risk of injury is much too great.

    I expect the best result for both parties at this point is to agree to a one-year deal for considerably more than $1.6M with the understanding that Mankins will be a free agent next year. That understanding could even be in the contract.

    If a one year deal is not possible, then I think that patriots should allow Mankin's agent to find a trading partner that will the patriots at least a 2011 2nd.

  27. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    On another thread, the LG Poll, only one out of 23 posters named Wendell as the "acceptable" replacement at left guard.
  28. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think you are right on top of the situation. The only variable is the value of the 1 year deal. Another injury or two and Mankins will maximize that value. No injuries, Mankins will have to settle for what the Pats will pony up (likely with a 2011 non-franchise guarantee). One way or the other, it will all be settled in 3 weeks
  29. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't think Mankins motivation is in helping the Patriots. His motivation is in making as much money as possible.

    However if you're looking for the silver lining it may dawn on Mankins that waiting until 2012 for his next paycheck might not be the wisest move and that might prompt him to realize that being among the Top 5 paid inside linemen with a very nice signing bonus in 2010 isn't as insulting as being out of the game without a paycheck until 2012.
  30. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Yup, tied with Orhnberger.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page