Levin: Tom Brady proves once again why he is the BEST....

[Danger Zone]

Your assertions are wrong, and on multiple levels. People have pointed it out to you, time and again.

Statistically, Brady is better, by pretty much any non-volume measure
Record-wise, Brady is better
Dealing with change, Brady is better
SB rings, Brady is better


This argument was over after 2007, when Brady showed what he could do with the sort of top end weaponry Manning had for most of his career. It took some Manning Ballwashers a little while to figure it out, that's all.

I agree with this!!

Also..

This is a copycat league.

Enough Patriot coaches and enough Patriot players have left the team over the years and enough tape of the Patriots exists that whatever magical system that the Patriots are using that even gets a "good" quarterback into this conversation of who is the very best qb of all time.. it would have been reverse-engineered and implemented in at least 16 other NFL teams.

But it hasnt been... because you need something far far greater than a "good" system quarterback to implement it.

 

[Haley]

My opinion of these two QBs didn't change all of a sudden just because the Pats came up on the 2012 schedule.

All that means is you were previously biased.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with "my" team. If you want to discuss them, I suggest you go to that thread. There's plenty of discussion in it.

If you view unbiased objective opinion on a player as trolling or trash talking, then I can't help you. I am keeping my dialogue civil and respectful, and unless you're a mod (which you obviously aren't), then I will respectfully ask you to back off.

I doubt very much, as others have asserted, that your opinion is "unbiased" or "objective," but since other posters have chosen to engage you on a topic that has been discussed out here ad nauseam in, literally, hundreds of threads over the years, who am I to say that a few more posts shouldn't be added to the heap?

The will of the people has prevailed. Knock yourselves out.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

All that means is you were previously biased.

Well, duh. And why are you debating with him? But, it's a free country.

 

[Haley]

Well, duh. And why are you debating with him? But, it's a free country.

For the lolz. How about you?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Facts?
Facts?
Don't bother me with stinking facts!
The truth is what I say it is, and just because I said so!

SO THERE!

Ah... the universal translator kicked in.

All is now clear.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Your assertions are wrong, and on multiple levels. People have pointed it out to you, time and again.

Statistically, Brady is better, by pretty much any non-volume measure
Record-wise, Brady is better
Dealing with change, Brady is better
SB rings, Brady is better


This argument was over after 2007, when Brady showed what he could do with the sort of top end weaponry Manning had for most of his career. It took some Manning Ballwashers a little while to figure it out, that's all.

Obviously, you're right Deus, but why are we even engaging in discussing a mis-characterization of Brady's career that was resolved years ago and doing so with someone who clearly lacks objectivity, who joined the Board the week of our game with his team (as have hundreds of others in the past and as will dozens more this season) and who will be gone next week?

But, as I've said above, I have to accept that I lost that debate a frightful number of pages ago. It's a free country so people can do whatever they want. Carry on.

 

[New England Seahawks]

You seem better equipped to participate in a Jim Zorn / David Krieg / Matt Hasselback debate, though I suspect you might need to consult your father or perhaps your grandfather to learn about the first two.

I have noticed that while we keep presenting you with facts, you do not chose to deny them. Rather you just link the internet opinions of others who are also fact-deprived.

Thus you do not deny reality, you simply chose to ignore it. Like Darth Vader, maybe there is some good in you.

I'm not ignoring any facts. I'm seeing the statistics being presented and determining how much of it is applicable to the question of "who is better", and assuming the stats are true, then Brady is clearly better. However, statistics alone do not tell the whole story, which is why this question is even debatable in the first place.

Btw, I appreciate your attempt at guessing my age, as well as the NFL knowledge of my father. Let's just say you're way off.

 

[Deus Irae]

Obviously, you're right Deus, but why are we even engaging in discussing a mis-characterization of Brady's career that was resolved years ago and doing so with someone who clearly lacks objectivity, who joined the Board the week of our game with his team (as have hundreds of others in the past and as will dozens more this season) and who will be gone next week?

But, as I've said above, I have to accept that I lost that debate a frightful number of pages ago. It's a free country so people can do whatever they want. Carry on. I'm putting this thread on Ignore and leaving y'all to continue.

My reason was purely selfish: I had about a half hour to kill in between road trips.

 

[BSR]

Hmm, then why is Manning even in the conversation? If it's such an obvious one-sided comparison, then it shouldn't even be arguable, right?

The debate used to be pretty hot and heavy prior to the 2007 season when Brady had the playoff stats, MVPs and rings while Manning had the regular season stats and MVPs. Since that time, Brady's stats exploded. In fact their career arcs in production have been fairly similar. Now its clear that while Peyton still has some longevity stats Brady is equal to or better than Manning in most regular season stats. Brady has always been better in post season stats.

So I think a lot of the conversation is a hold over from past years when the two quarterbacks represented a type of ying and yang. Nowdays its a different conversation although the debate still comes up because no matter what, these are still the two best quarterbacks of this generation.

 

[Fixit]

However, statistics alone do not tell the whole story, which is why this question is even debatable in the first place.

What else is left to consider? Endorsements? SNL appearances? Who Archie Manning thinks is better?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

For the lolz. How about you?

Yeah, what he writes is kind of pathetic isn't it; the poor guy is cheering for a team that is at times pretty good, but hardly ever good enough to get much beyond winning its division and he comes out here and criticizes as "relying on his defense" a QB who's taken a team to a Super Bowl five times, most recently with practically the worst Defense in the league.

Too bad that a beautiful city and a jillionaire owner can't produce a Winner. It's really tempting just to tweak him, but I was trying to take the high ground and ignore him. But you're right. Sometimes you just have to call folks out.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

My reason was purely selfish: I had about a half hour to kill in between road trips.

And, as Haley pointed out, it is a lot of fun.

 

[Danger Zone]

And, as Haley pointed out, it is a lot of fun.

I cant stop believing that at some point logic might prevail. :bricks:

I always used to argue that Brady was the best (though I always thought Manning threw a better longball) because he did what he did with no-name reveivers (I still love you Troy).

Look at what Brady did to the records when he finally had a receiver in Moss that Manning always had in Harrison..

.. to say nothing of Wayne, Clark or Addai.

 

[New England Seahawks]

What else is left to consider? Endorsements? SNL appearances? Who Archie Manning thinks is better?

For starters, how about 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives? Manning has more.

 

[New England Seahawks]

Look at what Brady did to the records when he finally had a receiver in Moss that Manning always had in Harrison..

.. to say nothing of Wayne, Clark or Addai.

Seriously? Moss is way more a receiving talent than Harrison ever was, and is perfect for a good QB to pad his stats with because he's a deep threat with speed and height.

 

[jmt57]

For starters, how about 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives? Manning has more.

Depends on how you want to view what those stats represent. It's also worth considering that the quarterback with the higher winning percentage put his team in the lead earlier more often, so a comeback was not necessary.

 

[Danger Zone]

For starters, how about 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives? Manning has more.

Brady had two game winning drives in two Superbowls.

It could be argued that he easily could have had two more but for circumstances he had no control over.

You do realise that you arent going to convince anyone here that Brady is a system quarterback?

 

[jmt57]

Seriously? Moss is way more a receiving talent than Harrison ever was, and is perfect for a good QB to pad his stats with because he's a deep threat with speed and height.

How many games was Moss with Brady?

How many games was Harrison and Wayne with Manning?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

For starters, how about 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives? Manning has more.

Brady has three 4th quarter comebacks and six game winning drives in the postseason, Manning one and one, in roughly the same number of games

Oh, I forgot, only regular season matters to you, for the moment, and then only certain aspects of the regular season.

Overall those seem to be odd criteria, since by playing better in the first 3 quarters you less frequently need 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. In 2007 for example, Brady apparently to your estimation had an exceptionally bad year since most often the games were decided before the 4th quarter. He would have been better had he been far more erratic in quarters 1-3.