Levin: Tom Brady proves once again why he is the BEST....

[BradyFTW!]

Actually, I thought the Pats defense was underrated last year. And you can't simply go by yards allowed per game (as these rankings do). They were better than what their 31st ranking indicated. The Pats defense showed up big in the playoffs. You can't deny that.

In one post you say that the 2011 Patriots defense was "very good", and in the next you say that they're not as bad as their #31 ranking indicated. Which is it? If it's both, then apparently Peyton Manning has had a "great" defense (by your definition) every single season of his career.

BTW, Matt Cassel made a Pro Bowl in KC. He's by no means a system quarterback, and as Andrew Luck is showing right now, Indy is just fine with a competent QB in the lineup as well. Last year was an indictment of Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky, not a vindication of Peyton Manning. In any case, I'm pretty sure you're a troll.

For the record, Tom Brady is a better QB both indoors and outdoors than Manning is, and the stats back it up. Literally the only advantage that Manning has over Brady is that, at career's end, he will have played in more games than Tom, and will have played a whole lot more of them in a dome. That's it. Brady is a better quarterback in every intelligently measurable way and in every intangible way. It is what it is. Manning's an all-time great, but he just had the misfortune of playing at the same time (in the same conference) as one of the very few who's better than him.

 

[Fball]

Oh please. Dungy was a good coach and was close to a ring in TB and Tom Moore was one of the top OC's in the NFL.

Dungy was a good coach. BB is the best of his generation, and one of the top 5 in history (maybe the best when all is said & done).

Arguing that BB wouldn't have SB titles right now if he had Manning, Marino or any one of a # of QB's instead of Brady would be kind of silly. This is not taking anything away from TB, but having someone who can flummox opposing offenses and draw up impeccable gameplans really helps.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

How do you come up with that list? Bradshaw has 4 SB rings so certainly he is not a 3rd tier guy in a conversation of Championships (your word choice has Bhelmet just said 'win'). Also, if you are talking Championships, then you have a huge omission with Big Ben while you list perennial bridesmaids like Kelly, Fouts, Marino, Tarkington, and Moon.

Bradshaw was a HoF QB who won a lot of games and championships. It's hard to say he led his star-studded team to many of those, when in fact his own coach was often on the verge of replacing him throughout the Steeler dynasty. Why? Due to completion percentages hovering around the 50% mark, a near 1:1 TD ratio for his career, and a passer rating that puts him 150th on the career list.

But he won 4X, so I can't dismiss the accomplishments and thus I put him with other QBs who were far more polished at their craft and who most assuredly would have also excelled at leading the 70s Steelers.

Big Ben is a good QB and should probably also be in the third tier, below only the Brady-Montana group and he Manning-Marino group.

Just my opinion, of course, and I never said that winning rings is the only thing. It's certainly a big factor specifically in the Brady-Manning matchup, as the two QBs who led their teams to win the most regular season games in any decade in NFL history, indicating similar talent levels, yet only one of them (TB) was even an overall winning postseason QB.

 

[Raymond]

I can't belive you folks are playing in a Brady/ Manning debate with a seasquawk troll.

 

[Bhelmet]

Even though it usually progresses nowhere and minds are not changed - a Brady/Manning debate is always fun. At least for me.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I can't belive you folks are playing in a Brady/ Manning debate with a seasquawk troll.

I have an uncontrollable urge to enrich poor fact-deprived souls with verifiable, factual information in hopes that I may make them see what they once could not see.

Alas, usually I find out that it is because they willingly chose not to see and enjoy clinging to their blissful ignorance.

 

[TruthSeeker]

That was the previous year, and it was BB's first year as head coach. A lot can change in a year, not just the obvious (QB). So you'll never really know the answer to that question.



You disagree? You really think they were the 2nd worst defense in the league last year?

Actually, according to official NFL statistics, they were the 2nd worst defense of all time.

That being said, we know the NFL's focus on yardage as the true measure of a defense's prowess is a stretch. However, the real point is your laughable assertion:

Remember, every Patriots superbowl team had a very good, if not great defense.

Thanks for your unbiased point of view.

 

[New England Seahawks]

Actually, according to official NFL statistics, they were the 2nd worst defense of all time.

That being said, we know the NFL's focus on yardage as the true measure of a defense's prowess is a stretch. However, the real point is your laughable assertion:



Thanks for your unbiased point of view.

I meant their championship teams. I wasn't thinking at all about 07 or 11 when I said that.

 

[New England Seahawks]

I have an uncontrollable urge to enrich poor fact-deprived souls with verifiable, factual information in hopes that I may make them see what they once could not see.

Alas, usually I find out that it is because they willingly chose not to see and enjoy clinging to their blissful ignorance.

Hmm, then why is Manning even in the conversation? If it's such an obvious one-sided comparison, then it shouldn't even be arguable, right?

 

[Haley]

That is my unbiased opinion.

Brilliant oxymoron.

Have you even bothered to read you own username? Trolls are not unbiased.

 

[New England Seahawks]

Brilliant oxymoron.

Have you even bothered to read you own username? Trolls are not unbiased.

Right. A Seahawk fan is biased regarding a Brady/Manning comparison, but a Patriot fan wouldn't be. Gotcha.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Hmm, then why is Manning even in the conversation?

He's not, really, among those that think.

The media has many people that do not think, and that fixate on who they deem to be "the good guy" when the facts don't even back THAT up (google "Manning Jamie Ann Naughright scandal")

the real conversation is Brady vs. Montana

Montana's 7 best seasons: 4 rings, 3 losses in the conference championship
Brady's 6 best seasons: 3 rings, 2 losses in the super bowl, 1 loss in the conference championship.

Obviously one more ring for Tom even settles the real conversation.

 

[New England Seahawks]

He's not, really, among those that think.

You mean "among Patriots fans"?

This is almost a couple of years old, but still valid, IMO.
Peyton Manning bests Tom Brady in ESPN.com's quarterback voting - ESPN

 

[thenepatsrule]

10 full seasons of play
5 Superbowl appearances

Find me another QB who has a 50% chance to make the Superbowl each year.

One of Tom Bradys sons

 

[Haley]

Right. A Seahawk fan is biased regarding a Brady/Manning comparison, but a Patriot fan wouldn't be. Gotcha.

Everyone has a bias. If you think you are somehow the only person on earth without a bias, you would be sorely mistaken.

Personally, I would think a Seahawks fan coming to a Patriots forum just before a Seahawks game might have something of an agenda.

Just sayin'.

 

[New England Seahawks]

Everyone has a bias. If you think you are somehow the only person on earth without a bias, you would be sorely mistaken.

Personally, I would think a Seahawks fan coming to a Patriots forum just before a Seahawks game might have something of an agenda.

Just sayin'.

Point noted, but not true. My opinion of these two QBs didn't change all of a sudden just because the Pats came up on the 2012 schedule.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have to disagree. The ultimate gauge of how good a QB is not by the # of superbowl appearances or wins. Remember, every Patriots superbowl team had a very good, if not great defense.

You can insert Peyton Manning into a completely different team, and they will still have a potent passing attack (as you're seeing in Denver). I'm not quite sure you can say the same thing about Brady.

Your assertions are wrong, and on multiple levels. People have pointed it out to you, time and again.

Statistically, Brady is better, by pretty much any non-volume measure
Record-wise, Brady is better
Dealing with change, Brady is better
SB rings, Brady is better


This argument was over after 2007, when Brady showed what he could do with the sort of top end weaponry Manning had for most of his career. It took some Manning Ballwashers a little while to figure it out, that's all.

 

[Fball]

The best & most definitive argument is that they are 2 all-time greats, who we have been extremely fortunate to not only watch over the past 10+ seasons, but watch go head-to-head in some truly memorable matchups.

The NFL will be a lesser place when both are retired. Though, the next generation looks promising as well.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

My opinion of these two QBs didn't change all of a sudden just because the Pats came up on the 2012 schedule.

You seem better equipped to participate in a Jim Zorn / David Krieg / Matt Hasselback debate, though I suspect you might need to consult your father or perhaps your grandfather to learn about the first two.

I have noticed that while we keep presenting you with facts, you do not chose to deny them. Rather you just link the internet opinions of others who are also fact-deprived.

Thus you do not deny reality, you simply chose to ignore it. Like Darth Vader, maybe there is some good in you.

 

[VJCPatriot]

That is not "entirely" different. Same coach, same team, same system, etc. Just like Manning had a different cast on offense over the years -- and yet consistently put up good numbers every year.

Wih pro bowl recivers like Harrison and Wayne.

Brady's best receivers during the Superbowl championship seasons were Brown and Branch.

HUGE difference. Brady has done more with less offensive talent compared to Peyton Manning.

Peyton Manning's extra stats comes from the fact that he has played 2 full seasons more than Brady and has had pro bowl wideouts in 90% of his career.

And when you give Brady premium talent at widout he has proven he can be every bit if prolific if not more than Peyton. Upgrade his WR corp to Moss and Welker and you get the GREATEST OFFENSIVE SEASON EVER in 2007 along with the TD record by a QB with 50 TDs.

When Moss left the team, Brady still managed to put up an unreal 36-4 TD/INT ratio in one of the most EFFICIENT offensive seasons of all time by a QB.

Brady also carried his team to a Superbowl appearance with a 31st ranked defense and possibly the worst secondary of ALL TIME makign a superbowl appearance. And they were minutes away from a win except... you guessed it that secondary finally cost them the game in the final drive, giving up huge plays through the air.

Any Superbowl run is a 'team effort' obviously, but to discount the fact that Brady carried his team to 5 Superbowl Appearances in 10 seasons and 3 championships is disingenous. There's NO OTHER QB in football today who has accomplished that feat or come even close to that. Brady is inarguably superior to Manning today. Now if Manning goes on a run and wins say a couple of championships in the next 5 years he might give Brady a run for his money but I don't see that happening, not while Brady is in the playoff picture, where he is again a dominant QB.

I did forget about the Broncos playoff loss where Brady threw 3 or 4 INT's - so he has his moments - though, VERY few - clutch TD's/scoring drives at end of SB's FAR outnumber ANY post-season mistakes. There is a reason Manning lost 3 State Championships in 3 tries in High School, never could beat Florida (TN's biggest rival at the time - not to mention they win Nat'l Championship year after Manning), and his only SB was far more due to D and Sanders than Manning. Manning lacks something upstairs when it comes to big games that Tom has in spades.

And let's not forget Manning's playoff meltdown vs the Saints. I think that moment solidified the national media's opinion on the Brady vs Manning issue. After that game there were VERY FEW peeps from the Manning supporters. Manning was exposed for his inability to shine at the top level when all the marbles were on the line. I think that some people have just gotten entrenched in a single position on the Manning vs Brady debate and refuse to remove their heads from the sand despite the facts and evidence. And that's fine, just refer to the ostrich picture whenever you tout the same line and don't pay attention to the facts.