Let's talk some football Pats/Jets

[p8ryts]

Pennington has been up and down against us in the past, can he be effective against us?

Will Hobbs man up with Laver----Coles?

Can their rookies on the O line hold up against our front seven?

Will we be able to run against them as effectively as we did with the Bills?

I just don't know that much about these Jets. They were nearly in the championship game two years ago, have they fallen that far? They were always a contender when Pennington was healthy?

I'm glad the Buffalo game was a struggle, I think it minimizes the potential for a let down against the Jets.

I actually thought Buffalo played pretty good for awhile but thought they were waiting for something bad to happen and expected to lose. Just like we used to do.

 

[mdhprime]

Pennington has been up and down against us in the past, can he be effective against us?

Will Hobbs man up with Laver----Coles?

Can their rookies on the O line hold up against our front seven?

Will we be able to run against them as effectively as we did with the Bills?

I just don't know that much about these Jets. They were nearly in the championship game two years ago, have they fallen that far? They were always a contender when Pennington was healthy?

I'm glad the Buffalo game was a struggle, I think it minimizes the potential for a let down against the Jets.

I actually thought Buffalo played pretty good for awhile but thought they were waiting for something bad to happen and expected to lose. Just like we used to do.

I think the key is the run. The Jets did not run well against the Titans and if that is stopped again and they are forced to pass, that plays directly to the Patriots strengths. On offense I just hope that Brady and the receivers get sharp this week during practice. Execution was the problem against Buffalo and I hope with some work that it is easily fixed.

 

[Flying Fungi]

This will be an interesting gameplan from a D perspective--I suspect that we will be going after noodley arm all day--they have no major running threat, and Pennington doesn't have the arm to go deep on an accurate/consistent basis...so I see little reason why we'd play off the line--we should be able to dominate in the trenches...

 

[Krazy Koz]

I know the players are all on Branch's side in the whole trade thing, but I hope these foul play tampering charges heat up the rivalry even more. I hope we pound these guys and Mangini looks like a fool.

 

[bakes781]

I think the reason we struggled against Buffalo was their speed on defense really was the perfect match for our offensive scheme. The screens & quick slants we normally like to run just weren't going to work on them. This week should be different. The offensive line needs to improve obviously, but the defense is still good enough to keep us in games. Kevan Barlow was a nice addition for NY, but I am not a believer in Pennington. I predict we roll in this one Pats 31, Jets 17

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If we could deal with McGahee we should be able to shut down the Jets running entirely. I expect that to be so Sunday. Penny's limp passing should be red meat to our DBs. If it is not, expect a very long season.

The Jets front 7 and cover DBs are nowhere as good as the Bills' D so I expect less pressure on Brady. Matt Light, don't make me look bad here. I expect us to run well and be better than mediocre passing as the gypsy WR corps learns their options on the patterns. Pats passing offense is complex. I'm hopeful but concerned about the newbies learning it well enough to avoid easy INTs as they make the wrong option move.

Pats win, easier than last Sunday but no blowout.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Let's see, the team is coming off a disappointing and embarrassing home opener, Vrabel sounded like he was ready to move beyond Branch, even if Sey was gloomy. I'd expect Tommy to be pretty ticked at himself, and some of his mates for their outing against the Bills - and Mangini is going to have to focus on run preparation almost exclusively... I'm thinking Air Brady does a few flyovers.

 

[patchick]

Mike Florio is starting to exert a frightening power over NFL fandom. Messageboard posters routinely follow whatever nicknames he assigns...just look at recent posts here about "Joey Sunshine," "Uncle Rico," and of course "Noodle Arm." (Come on, Uncle Rico? WTH?)

Pennington is a good QB who had a serious injury, then aggravated it into a career-threatening injury by agreeing to the team's demand to play through the pain. Then he agreed to a contract reduction to stay with the team that destroyed his shoulder and proceeded to work like hell to regain his starting position. Explain to me why that makes him weak and wimpy instead of tough? If he didn't play for a division rival, I'd be rooting for him to succeed.

Of course, he does play for those Jets, so I'm looking forward to seeing him on the ground a lot this weekend. I just cannot see the Jets running against the Patriots, especially if Bruschi comes back and Vrabel can move back outside.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Mike Florio is starting to exert a frightening power over NFL fandom. Messageboard posters routinely follow whatever nicknames he assigns...just look at recent posts here about "Joey Sunshine," "Uncle Rico," and of course "Noodle Arm." (Come on, Uncle Rico? WTH?)

Pennington is a good QB who had a serious injury, then aggravated it into a career-threatening injury by agreeing to the team's demand to play through the pain. Then he agreed to a contract reduction to stay with the team that destroyed his shoulder and proceeded to work like hell to regain his starting position. Explain to me why that makes him weak and wimpy instead of tough? If he didn't play for a division rival, I'd be rooting for him to succeed.

Of course, he does play for those Jets, so I'm looking forward to seeing him on the ground a lot this weekend. I just cannot see the Jets running against the Patriots, especially if Bruschi comes back and Vrabel can move back outside.

not sure about Joey Sunshine or Uncle Rico, but it seems to me that we've been calling Pennington all manners of pasta-like substances for years now on Patsfans.com. I don't personally dislike Vermicelli Arm, but his arm strength was marginal at best when he was healthy. he has never been able to hit a deep sideline route and his accuracy down-field is questionable even if you do appreciate 'floaters'. now that he has had the noodle upgraded from a linguine to something of a fettucine, I'm still not convinced that he is a playoff caliber QB.

and he will be on the field--this is going to be an ugly game--BB is surely aware of the schemes and personnel of Mangini's Jets...

 

[Oswlek]

Since the beginning of the 2003 season, Brady has played 12 poor games. I will admit that mcuh of my definition of "poor" is subjective, but I think that most of us would agree on most of them. The games are

2003
Buffalo
NY Giants
Houston

2004
Arizona
Pitt
Cleveland
Miami

2005
Carolina
Denver
San Diego
New Orleans
KC

Brady's respective starts following those games are as follows

30/44 255 yards 3TDs 0 ints
24/34 283 2 0
26/35 236 2 2
17/30 298 2 0
18/31 234 2 0
18/26 260 2 0
21/32 264 2 0
31/41 372 0 1
22/37 350 3 1
14/21 199 1 0
22/40 248 1 4
27/37 271 0 0

Totals
270/398 3,270 20 7

Game Average
23/33 272 1.7 0.6

It isn't just Brady, of course, but if you look back, in many of the games that he struggled, NE's OL struggled as well. But in the games following, they all improved greatly. Plus, the KC matchup following NO really skews these numbers; over half of the ints and nearly double the incompletions of the average during the other games.

I see Brady's stat line to be around 22/30 270 2 0

 

[mdhprime]

Since the beginning of the 2003 season, Brady has played 12 poor games. I will admit that mcuh of my definition of "poor" is subjective, but I think that most of us would agree on most of them. The games are

2003
Buffalo
NY Giants
Houston

2004
Arizona
Pitt
Cleveland
Miami

2005
Carolina
Denver
San Diego
New Orleans
KC

Brady's respective starts following those games are as follows

30/44 255 yards 3TDs 0 ints
24/34 283 2 0
26/35 236 2 2
17/30 298 2 0
18/31 234 2 0
18/26 260 2 0
21/32 264 2 0
31/41 372 0 1
22/37 350 3 1
14/21 199 1 0
22/40 248 1 4
27/37 271 0 0

Totals
270/398 3,270 20 7

Game Average
23/33 272 1.7 0.6

It isn't just Brady, of course, but if you look back, in many of the games that he struggled, NE's OL struggled as well. But in the games following, they all improved greatly. Plus, the KC matchup following NO really skews these numbers; over half of the ints and nearly double the incompletions of the average during the other games.

I see Brady's stat line to be around 22/30 270 2 0

Pretty good analysis, but if memory serves:

2003 - Giants - pouring rain
2004 - Arizona - Big Corey Dillon fumble; Branch hurt early?

 

[Oswlek]

Sorry for the double post, but I meant to say another thing. Football is more a game of emotion than any other out there. It's hard to stay patient at the plate if you are pissed off and you won't win many golf tournaments playing angry.

What I saw during this past weeks game was a team that was playing with more passion than the other. I saw the more energetic team outplay the more lethargic one by a wide margin early on. Later, I saw the other realize that they needed to give more, do so, and prove who was the better team.

Sometimes it isn't as complicated as we think it might me. Sometimes one team really does just "want it more." In the beginning, Buffalo did just that, but once the energy level evened off, it was obvious what team had more talent.

 

[Oswlek]

Pretty good analysis, but if memory serves:

2003 - Giants - pouring rain
2004 - Arizona - Big Corey Dillon fumble; Branch hurt early?

Those two and the NO are the ones that are the most subjective. It isn't just about the stats on the day, it's also about my impressions of watching the game. I stand by my orignal position of including them, although I can see your point.

 

[Bill B.]

I don't think the Patriot's will start off as bad as they did last game against Buffalo. Without a decent running game, Pennington will have to throw a lot. If the Pats get a lead, Chad is in for a long game. Dillon and Maroney will have a combined 180 yards. No way Brady throws under 50% two games in a row. Pats win 20-13.

 

[mdhprime]

I don't think the Patriot's will start off as bad as they did last game against Buffalo. Without a decent running game, Pennington will have to throw a lot. If the Pats get a lead, Chad is in for a long game. Dillon and Maroney will have a combined 180 yards. No way Brady throws under 50% two games in a row. Pats win 20-13.

That would be great to see. I will be interested to see if the possible return of Bruschi plus Jackson and Gabriel make a considerable difference.

 

[Garbanza]

There are many reasons I wish for a Patriot victory - but near the top is shutting up those incredibly obnoxious Jets fans.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Mike Florio is starting to exert a frightening power over NFL fandom. Messageboard posters routinely follow whatever nicknames he assigns...just look at recent posts here about "Joey Sunshine," "Uncle Rico," and of course "Noodle Arm." (Come on, Uncle Rico? WTH?)

Pennington is a good QB who had a serious injury, then aggravated it into a career-threatening injury by agreeing to the team's demand to play through the pain. Then he agreed to a contract reduction to stay with the team that destroyed his shoulder and proceeded to work like hell to regain his starting position. Explain to me why that makes him weak and wimpy instead of tough? If he didn't play for a division rival, I'd be rooting for him to succeed.

Of course, he does play for those Jets, so I'm looking forward to seeing him on the ground a lot this weekend. I just cannot see the Jets running against the Patriots, especially if Bruschi comes back and Vrabel can move back outside.

I do not see why Vrabel should move back outside. TBC had a spectacular game, all the more impressive after I reviewed the tape. In addition to three QB hurries, the first pressure forcing the Safety; he also was in on three key rushing plays in which McGahee lost respectively, -2, -1, and +1 yard. He also had a play where McGahee gained between 2 and 3 yards.

Meanwhile Seau and Vrabel several times took the wrong angle on runs up the middle. besides Seau won't and can't paly every down. After all he IS 37and will quickly wear down if he isn't allowed to be paced.

I'd like to see Bruschi and Vrabel start inside and reserve Seau as the guy to give a blow to each of them.

 

[Oswlek]

I do not see why Vrabel should move back outside. TBC had a spectacular game, all the more impressive after I reviewed the tape. In addition to three QB hurries, the first pressure forcing the Safety; he also was in on three key rushing plays in which McGahee lost respectively, -2, -1, and +1 yard. He also had a play where McGahee gained between 2 and 3 yards.

Meanwhile Seau and Vrabel several times took the wrong angle on runs up the middle. besides Seau won't and can't paly every down. After all he IS 37and will quickly wear down if he isn't allowed to be paced.

I'd like to see Bruschi and Vrabel start inside and reserve Seau as the guy to give a blow to each of them.

While I haven't been able to review tape (rarely can I), I am completely on your side with this one. Ever since training camp began, I have been asking why it is so important to get Vrabel back outside. The step down from him at OLB is much, much smaller than the step down from him at ILB.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

I think the emotion of the Branch thing is going to be felt and the Pats lose 21-17 in a horrific trainwreck of a game.

 

[mgteich]

I think that we will take apart the jets. In the end it will be a battle of the lines. We here might think that we played an OK game against the Bills. Believe me, bb has no such illusions, and neither do the players. The team will be ready for this battle of the AFCE unbeatens.

1) We will run at will, 200 yards is a minimum.

2) Brady will be protected much better; John Abraham is no longer a jet.

3) Our front seven will dominate the jets rookie line.

4) Our defensive game plan will indeed attack Penny.

TESTS - THE SECONDARIES
1) Will the patriots have much of a passing game? Extending the field with the pass is critical to the run game.
2) How will we stop Penny. I suspect we will use heavy pressure. Hobbs, Samuel and Gay will indeed be tested by the jets.