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Let's talk about abortion?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by SoonerPatriot, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought I'd lighten the mood up in here a little today and engage in a good old fashioned heart to heart on abortion.

    Anyone have anything thoughts?
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    LMAO, this is sure to go well :D

    Pro life in all instances here. Rape, incest, danger to life of mother. I know that probably no-one will agree but I don't think how a baby was conceived should affect whether it can be murdered or not - and I don't think the mother's life is inherently more important than the babies.

    And, no, I'm not religious. I just don't understand killing babies.
     
  3. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What about if the mother's life is in danger before the baby is viable outside the womb. In that case, not having an abortion would kill both mother and baby.
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If the baby literally can't survive, then sure. But if it could be kept alive outside the mother with an expectation of a normal life then no.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't subscribe to supernatural views of what life is. I rely on science, so I'm pro choice in all instances. I'm not against abortion as a form of birth control, though I think only an idiot would put themselves in a situation where that was the only option.

    Despite my beliefs, I do recognize that abortion can be dangerous and is morally complex. I think we need to create a social climate that discourages abortion, by boosting public services to poor women and children. I think the number of abortions would drop significantly if the anti-choicers were willing to spend on daycare, job training, welfare, health care, etc., but they are not. For that reason, I don't trust their views on abortion -- to put it simply, they don't put their money where their mouth is. Their views are too often rooted in sexism.
     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    There's no legitimate science for the cutoff. It's an arbitrary choice. And the concept of ripping limbs and fingers apart is disgusting.
     
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm pro-choice, too, except in the third trimester where I'm against elective abortions, but I'm not pinning this one on science and I'm not so sure science wants anything to do with it either.
     
  8. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    You make it sound like doctors are performing vivisection on a fetus. What a crock. Sounds like you fully believe the "right to life" hype.

    IMO...the delivery of a rape victims baby is pretty disgusting, and so is an inbred. Just look at the deep south.
     
  9. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    First off, pro choice here.

    I don't support it as means of birth control. I do however support it in cases of rape, incest and in some medical situations i.e. downs syndrome.

    Downs can often be determined early in pregranancies. I know that sounds harsh, but in my view, it's no more harsh than knowingly bringing a child into the world who will never be able to function independently on his/her own and will require constant care and supervision from cradle to grave.

    South Dakota has made abortion illegal. I don't agree with that, but I do support individual states making their own decisions on the legality of abortion, rather than a few activist judges on the Supreme Court making the decision for all of us. States that do enact laws banning abortion in cases of documented rape should incur the medical costs of the pregnancy if they require the mother to carry the child to term.

    But my biggest reason for being pro choice is simply this -- I don't believe it's the place of the govt. to tell people what to do with their bodies. This also applies to the legalization of some drugs, prostitution, assisted suicide and seat belt and helmet laws. Finally, as a male, I feel uncomfortable telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies. I will never be pregnant so it is virtually impossible to comprehend the emotions that go along with an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2006
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If I believed the fetus was a human, I would be against abortion. The reason I don't believe that is is because I trust what science has to say about brain development -- pain, emotions, etc.
     
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It is an arbitary cutoff. It's based on where people choose to balance the right of a mother (the sentient being who's body the baby is attached to) against the right of a fetus (which, depending on the point in the pregnancy, may have brainwaves). I draw the line pretty close to the current legal standard (Casey v. Planned Parenthood), but I also feel that pro-lifers have a valid argument - I just think the pro-choice argument is more valid.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2006
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Don't oversimplify. A first-trimester fetus is at a very different stage of development than a third-trimester fetus. If a 1 day old baby can feel pain, don't you think it's likely he/she also felt pain a week before the delivery? You wouldn't support an elective abortion (no health necessity) a week before the delivery, would you?
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I should have added that deformation of the fetus would be an exception for me (to be OK with abortion).
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's not a "feel pain" issue for me. It's just that without human intervention this will be a human being. It simply will be. Is it reasonable to require a woman to give up her comfort for 9 months to allow a fetus to have it's entire life ? I say yes it is. Although I am not a woman, I think they have some gall to talk about their rights and conveniently forget about the babies. 9 months of ups and downs vs. being ripped to pieces and losing your entire 70-80 year life.
     
  15. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I agree with everything you say to an extent, but for me the line still falls more toward the right of the woman - only because I don't believe the baby is trully sentient yet.
     
  16. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    What would an abortion thread be without mention of Tom Delay's work in Saipan, where thanks to his tough efforts while in Congress, managed to maintain forced abortions for women in the textile industry.

    Good work Tom.
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course not. That was my point about relying on science. The articles I've read by doctors convince me that the law has it right, namely legalizing abortion in the first and second trimesters and leaving it up to the state for the third trimester, except in cases health. (Not sure the rules for rape and incest in the third trimester.)
     
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Unless it's Osama Bin Ladin at the WTC site ...fat chance of that happening. What were we talking about?
     
  19. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    All this talk of ripping limbs apart is making me hungry.
     
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Screw the woman.

    The right being lost by the baby is life. The baby will die due to an abortion. And whatever the Patters crew wants to say about life, it is taking away life because the baby will be born as a human without an abortion.

    The right being lost by the woman is 9 months of carrying the baby.

    Honestly I have no idea, no f*cking idea at all, how 9 months of having to carry a baby can be compared in rights to that of losing your life before you're born.
     

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