Lets rank the AFC East Team's Offenses and Defenses for 2009

[jmt57]

1ST POST!!!

OFFENSE:

1) Patriots - look to see them returning to near-07 form.
2) Jets - smash mouth running game, great O-Line will carry this O - led by a rookie QB with some young, unproven receivers
3) Phins - It's an odd # year, which means Pennington will suck. Trust me, I'm a Jets fan.
4) Bills - It's the Bills. T.O. will complain that Edwards sucks, and than they will implode.

DEFENSE:

1) Jets - Rex & Pettine's system will work here. Look at the talent of the starters: off the top of my head; Revis, Jenkins, Harris, Scott, Sheppard, Leonhard, Rhodes, Pace, Ellis, etc. This should be a feared D throughout the NFL. The only concern here is depth.
2) Phins - add a solid rookie corner & don't lose anyone key.
3) Pats- need work on their secondary.
4) Bills - the whole D isn't that good.

Good first post and welcome to PatsFans.com

I could see the Jets having a solid running game except for the problem of their lack of a threat in the passing game. The Vikings got away with that situation because they have Adrian Peterson; Thomas Jones is no AP.

On defense the Jets have added three players: Lito Sheppard, Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Sheppard started all of three games last year and has a grand total of three interceptions in the last two years. Leonhard has only one season as a starter. Bart Scott on the other hand is a ball player; though others question how he will do without Ray Lewis next to him my question is how Ray Lewis will do this year without Bart Scott.

The bottom line is that I feel the Jets' improvement on defense is overstated due to the addition of these three players. Yes, they have improved - but not as much as we are being led to believe by the media.

 

[DarrylS]

The Pats secondary is an unknown.. so difficult to rank here, Bodden, Springs are new experienced faces.. Tank Williams is coming back.. Meriweather and Sanders are a year more mature in this system.. Wheatley, Wilhite, Chung and Butler are all young and promising.. looks like the atypical pats blend of young players, bridge players and players who need to prove themselves..

The days of just picking up guys on the street is over, BB has really improved this area on paper..

To minimize these guys is a guess, but one thing for sure is that BB has had a lot of time to think about being down the bottom of the league in Red Zone D.. this will not happen this year.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

Good first post and welcome to PatsFans.com

I could see the Jets having a solid running game except for the problem of their lack of a threat in the passing game. The Vikings got away with that situation because they have Adrian Peterson; Thomas Jones is no AP.

On defense the Jets have added three players: Lito Sheppard, Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Sheppard started all of three games last year and has a grand total of three interceptions in the last two years. Leonhard has only one season as a starter. Bart Scott on the other hand is a ball player; though others question how he will do without Ray Lewis next to him my question is how Ray Lewis will do this year without Bart Scott.

The bottom line is that I feel the Jets' improvement on defense is overstated due to the addition of these three players. Yes, they have improved - but not as much as we are being led to believe by the media.

Let me address the last comment first, about the improvement on Defense. Look at this. Do you know who our coach was last year? Eric Mangini. Defensive Coordinator? Bob Sutton. I have NEVER seen a worse use of talent than I did last year with those two assclowns running the defense. We were among the league leaders in sacks, but don't let that fool you. They would blitz the QB maybe ONCE or TWICE a game. Rex & Pettine will be huge for this defense, they have a gameplan unlike Mangidiot and Sutton. Of course, the additions of Leonhard at S, Bart Scott at ILB, Lito at CB, and Douglass at DE will help. I have faith that they will take all of the talent on this Defense, and turn them into league leaders. So don't think of just the "players" when evaluating the new defense, look at the new coaching and system as well. The only thing that will slow this D down, is injuries, and that is a worry of mine going into the season - lack of depth.

Let me address your second paragraph now. Lito Sheppard. You saw what he did his first few years in Philly, Pro-Bowl type corner. He was great until he got injured. Now, he is fully recovered and ya know how old he is? 28. There is a good bet that he can return to before-injury-form & play really, really well. What will also help Lito - is the pressure being put forth by the front 7, and even people in the secondary - to put pressure on the QB and force him into bad decisions. Lito will be a more than adequate 2nd CB behind Revis, who IMO, has a chance to be the best CB in the game in the coming years. Now about Bart Scott. He won't be playing next to Ray Ray in NY. However, he will be playing next to David Harris, and Calvin Pace. This should be a GOOD, young developing LB corps, and Bart Scott will be a great leader & teacher IMO.

Lastly, about the RB's. Thomas Jones, who is now past 30, coming off an AFC Rushing title. I really don't expect him to return to 2008 form this year. He was mainly the product of a good offensive line - not a great RB, a good one. Leon Washington is a BEAST, and has been underutilized in the past few years by who? Mangini again. You guys saw first hand, he is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Why wouldn't Mangini give the ball to someone who is a threat to score? Look for Leon to get many more carries this year, and to be a LOT more involved with the offense. Third, we got a rookie in Shonn Greene, traded up to get him in the third round. He will make an immediate impact, just look at his highlights on youtube from when he was at Iowa. He needs to work on his blocking and DEFINITELY his pass catching skills, but other than that, look for him to make a very good rookie impact. This could be a nice 3-RB tandem this year, taking a lot of pressure off Sanchez.


Sorry about my essay, I just wanted to address all the points. lol

 

[JSn]

My honest question about this attacking defense is this:

How are you going to feel when they start giving up yards for encroachment penalties? You can't send a huge rush from a 3-4 and still adequately cover the middle and deep zones, at least not against this offensive unit.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

My honest question about this attacking defense is this:

How are you going to feel when they start giving up yards for encroachment penalties? You can't send a huge rush from a 3-4 and still adequately cover the middle and deep zones, at least not against this offensive unit.

It is going to be similar to the Baltimore defense of last year. They really didn't have trouble covering the middle, deep zones.

 

[Rob0729]

1ST POST!!!

1) Jets - Rex & Pettine's system will work here. Look at the talent of the starters: off the top of my head; Revis, Jenkins, Harris, Scott, Sheppard, Leonhard, Rhodes, Pace, Ellis, etc. This should be a feared D throughout the NFL. The only concern here is depth.

Seriously do guys like Sheppard, Leonhard, or Ellis scare anyone? Sheppard was fourth on the depth chart last year. Leonhard is on his third team in as many years and has only really had one good team with several potential HOFers surrounding him. Ellis seems to be on the decline and although he had 8 sacks last year he only had 1.5 in November and December combined.

The Jets were 16th in points allowed last year. The addition of Scott, Leonhard, and Sheppard alone will not make them a feared defense. Only Scott is a proven solid starter of the three and there are questions of how solid he will be without Suggs, Ray-Ray, Ed Reed, and Haloti Nata surrounding him.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

Seriously do guys like Sheppard, Leonhard, or Ellis scare anyone? Sheppard was fourth on the depth chart last year. Leonhard is on his third team in as many years and has only really had one good team with several potential HOFers surrounding him. Ellis seems to be on the decline and although he had 8 sacks last year he only had 1.5 in November and December combined.

The Jets were 16th in points allowed last year. The addition of Scott, Leonhard, and Sheppard alone will not make them a feared defense. Only Scott is a proven solid starter of the three and there are questions of how solid he will be without Suggs, Ray-Ray, Ed Reed, and Haloti Nata surrounding him.

We have Rex and Pettine, not Mangini & Sutton. My point is, the talent was not used properly last year.

 

[JSn]

It is going to be similar to the Baltimore defense of last year. They really didn't have trouble covering the middle, deep zones.

Hahaha - classic. Dude, personnel wise it's not gonna be CLOSE to Baltimore's D last year.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

Hahaha - classic. Dude, personnel wise it's not gonna be CLOSE to Baltimore's D last year.

You are truly mistaken if you think that.

 

[JSn]

You are truly mistaken if you think that.

I guess we'll see.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

I guess we'll see.

Yup.

Don't worry, I'll be here in September, one way or another.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Let me address the last comment first, about the improvement on Defense. Look at this. Do you know who our coach was last year? Eric Mangini. Defensive Coordinator? Bob Sutton. I have NEVER seen a worse use of talent than I did last year with those two assclowns running the defense. We were among the league leaders in sacks, but don't let that fool you. They would blitz the QB maybe ONCE or TWICE a game. Rex & Pettine will be huge for this defense, they have a gameplan unlike Mangidiot and Sutton. Of course, the additions of Leonhard at S, Bart Scott at ILB, Lito at CB, and Douglass at DE will help. I have faith that they will take all of the talent on this Defense, and turn them into league leaders. So don't think of just the "players" when evaluating the new defense, look at the new coaching and system as well. The only thing that will slow this D down, is injuries, and that is a worry of mine going into the season - lack of depth.

Let me address your second paragraph now. Lito Sheppard. You saw what he did his first few years in Philly, Pro-Bowl type corner. He was great until he got injured. Now, he is fully recovered and ya know how old he is? 28. There is a good bet that he can return to before-injury-form & play really, really well. What will also help Lito - is the pressure being put forth by the front 7, and even people in the secondary - to put pressure on the QB and force him into bad decisions. Lito will be a more than adequate 2nd CB behind Revis, who IMO, has a chance to be the best CB in the game in the coming years. Now about Bart Scott. He won't be playing next to Ray Ray in NY. However, he will be playing next to David Harris, and Calvin Pace. This should be a GOOD, young developing LB corps, and Bart Scott will be a great leader & teacher IMO.

Lastly, about the RB's. Thomas Jones, who is now past 30, coming off an AFC Rushing title. I really don't expect him to return to 2008 form this year. He was mainly the product of a good offensive line - not a great RB, a good one. Leon Washington is a BEAST, and has been underutilized in the past few years by who? Mangini again. You guys saw first hand, he is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Why wouldn't Mangini give the ball to someone who is a threat to score? Look for Leon to get many more carries this year, and to be a LOT more involved with the offense. Third, we got a rookie in Shonn Greene, traded up to get him in the third round. He will make an immediate impact, just look at his highlights on youtube from when he was at Iowa. He needs to work on his blocking and DEFINITELY his pass catching skills, but other than that, look for him to make a very good rookie impact. This could be a nice 3-RB tandem this year, taking a lot of pressure off Sanchez.


Sorry about my essay, I just wanted to address all the points. lol

Man...what a homer.

So because you're HOPING Sheppard returns to 2-3 year form, he's going to be elite? I think the Jets have a good defense, but not a dominating DL. I don't see studs in the LB core all over the place. You're talking like it's a defensive all-star team.

Leon Washington? Wow. He's good, but again he's great? Give me a break. I don't give a damn about college highlights. I don't see what you're seeing on the field. Maybe you will be here come September. What about December when you're eating your words?

 

[Grizzafted]

Pats are going to have the best defense in the East next year, if not statistically then in terms of points scored.

Brady's back, so chances are we'll be playing with a second half lead AT LEAST half the time, possibly more. The major question mark is at one position: ILB. Either Guyton or Lenon will have to play well there, but the OLB position will be fine. Crable/Woods will work one spot, and Adalius Thomas will get pressure on the quarterback. He was on pace for a 10 sack season last year before he got hurt. The secondary is strong, with second and third year guys working for veteran leadership. I don't imagine the Pats will lose more than 4 games next year, and at least two will come in the first six weeks. This is a championship team; we'll see if they actually gel, but I think this is the best defensive team we've fielded in a while. It's young and hand picked and this is the beginning of the year where the defense transitions past the "development" stage, even if we do lose Richard or Vince next year.

 

[Rob0729]

Let me address the last comment first, about the improvement on Defense. Look at this. Do you know who our coach was last year? Eric Mangini. Defensive Coordinator? Bob Sutton. I have NEVER seen a worse use of talent than I did last year with those two assclowns running the defense. We were among the league leaders in sacks, but don't let that fool you. They would blitz the QB maybe ONCE or TWICE a game. Rex & Pettine will be huge for this defense, they have a gameplan unlike Mangidiot and Sutton. Of course, the additions of Leonhard at S, Bart Scott at ILB, Lito at CB, and Douglass at DE will help. I have faith that they will take all of the talent on this Defense, and turn them into league leaders. So don't think of just the "players" when evaluating the new defense, look at the new coaching and system as well. The only thing that will slow this D down, is injuries, and that is a worry of mine going into the season - lack of depth.

Let me address your second paragraph now. Lito Sheppard. You saw what he did his first few years in Philly, Pro-Bowl type corner. He was great until he got injured. Now, he is fully recovered and ya know how old he is? 28. There is a good bet that he can return to before-injury-form & play really, really well. What will also help Lito - is the pressure being put forth by the front 7, and even people in the secondary - to put pressure on the QB and force him into bad decisions. Lito will be a more than adequate 2nd CB behind Revis, who IMO, has a chance to be the best CB in the game in the coming years. Now about Bart Scott. He won't be playing next to Ray Ray in NY. However, he will be playing next to David Harris, and Calvin Pace. This should be a GOOD, young developing LB corps, and Bart Scott will be a great leader & teacher IMO.

Lastly, about the RB's. Thomas Jones, who is now past 30, coming off an AFC Rushing title. I really don't expect him to return to 2008 form this year. He was mainly the product of a good offensive line - not a great RB, a good one. Leon Washington is a BEAST, and has been underutilized in the past few years by who? Mangini again. You guys saw first hand, he is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Why wouldn't Mangini give the ball to someone who is a threat to score? Look for Leon to get many more carries this year, and to be a LOT more involved with the offense. Third, we got a rookie in Shonn Greene, traded up to get him in the third round. He will make an immediate impact, just look at his highlights on youtube from when he was at Iowa. He needs to work on his blocking and DEFINITELY his pass catching skills, but other than that, look for him to make a very good rookie impact. This could be a nice 3-RB tandem this year, taking a lot of pressure off Sanchez.


Sorry about my essay, I just wanted to address all the points. lol

Just because Rex Ryan and his staff is coming to town doesn't neccessarily mean the defense will vastly improve. That was the thinking in Cinci when Marvin Lewis arrived or Cleveland when Romeo Crennel arrived and both teams are still waiting for that vastly improved defense eventhough it has been a number of years. Also, Ryan inherited one of the most talented defenses in the NFL (far more talented than this Jets' team). Who knows if he had as much influence on the Ravens defense as he is given credit for since it was great before he became DC. Also, many good or great coordinators make horrible head coaches (see Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Scott Leinahan, Romeo Crennel, **** LeBeau, etc.).

As for Sheppard, he has always been wildly inconsistent. In 2004 and 2006, he had very good years but the rest of his career has been average at best. He entered the league in 2002. So that is a lot of average to below average years and you can't blame them all on injuries. Also, do you really think the Jets are going to put more pressure on the QB than the Jim Johnson defenses in Philly did. AllJohnson does is have his front seven blitz the QB. If he struggled with the pressure that the Eagles put on QBs, he will struggle with pressure by the Jets defense.

Comparing David Harris, who has had only one good year and it might have been more because people didn't expect him, and Calvin Pace to the talent on the Ravens (most particularly Ray-Ray and Terrell Suggs) is laughable. Pace is a good, not great OLB. Suggs is one of the best in the league. Harris needs to prove he isn't anything more than a one year wonder. He should have benefitted most by the addition of Kris Jenkins and he regressed. He went from 127 tackles and 5 sacks in 2007 (16 games but only 9 starts) to 75 tackles and one sack in 11 games. And you really can't blame the injury on his lack of production since his first two games back were two of the only three games where he got double digit tackles.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

Man...what a homer.

So because you're HOPING Sheppard returns to 2-3 year form, he's going to be elite? I think the Jets have a good defense, but not a dominating DL. I don't see studs in the LB core all over the place. You're talking like it's a defensive all-star team.

Leon Washington? Wow. He's good, but again he's great? Give me a break. I don't give a damn about college highlights. I don't see what you're seeing on the field. Maybe you will be here come September. What about December when you're eating your words?

Where did I say Sheppard will be elite I said he will be a more than serviceable #2 behind Revis - that's it, and he does have the potential to return to Pro Bowl form. This defense is loaded. I really am not being a homer when I say that, because they will carry the team for the most part of the season.

And Leon scrubbed you in Foxborough, you idiot. So don't say look at his college highlights, why don't you look at the highlights from the Thursday Night game, or the Tennessee game. He was an ALL-PRO.

I will be here, so if I have to eat my words, I will. But come on man...don't knock Washington.

 

[Grizzafted]

Oh and let's get real, the Jets are positioning themselves to completely flop. How NY fans can't see this completely escapes me. After Ryan's comments recently, I'm starting to think he could wind up with a worse record than Mangini...like no playoffs in three years kind of thing.

The Jets have absolutely zero reason to even pretend they have a "swagger." What a ridiculous idea...how many teams with "swagger" win ten games? The way they're conducting themselves is going to really screw up their game if they lose two or three games in the first month. His letting the team inflate themselves (publicly!) like that is practically a class in bad coaching, especially with a team that has the potential to seriously go into a shell if it starts losing. That team's failures can't be blamed entirely on bad coaching, and if anything he should be lowering their expectations. This is classic football mistake tactics here....I can't believe what an idiot he is, or what a crash landing Jets fans have in front of them. I'm starting to think that team is going to suck for another decade, they just can't get their act together.

 

[NewYorkJets1993]

Oh and let's get real, the Jets are positioning themselves to completely flop. How NY fans can't see this completely escapes me. After Ryan's comments recently, I'm starting to think he could wind up with a worse record than Mangini...like no playoffs in three years kind of thing.

The Jets have absolutely zero reason to even pretend they have a "swagger." What a ridiculous idea...how many teams with "swagger" win ten games? The way they're conducting themselves is going to really screw up their game if they lose two or three games in the first month. His letting the team inflate themselves (publicly!) like that is practically a class in bad coaching, especially with a team that has the potential to seriously go into a shell if it starts losing. That team's failures can't be blamed entirely on bad coaching, and if anything he should be lowering their expectations. This is classic football mistake tactics here....I can't believe what an idiot he is, or what a crash landing Jets fans have in front of them. I'm starting to think that team is going to suck for another decade, they just can't get their act together.

Whatever dude. All we're doing is talking until they actually play the games on the field. Everything is speculation.

 

[Grizzafted]

No, it's not "just talking." It's bad coaching. Could you imagine Bill Belichick or Tom Coughlin or Tony Dungy or Mike Tomlin talking about his team, which lost four out of six to miss the playoffs, like that publicly? It's horrible for the team's psyche, and it shows his inexperience in setting the public tone for his team. They're not playing amateur league guys, and they have a rookie quarterback and a defense that never fully gelled (what have these guys ever proved?? nothing!). So what happens when they're 3-4 midway through the season? Is that kind of hyper-inflation of their public image good to get a team that gets off to a shaky start back on track? It's ******ed, man, and you know exactly what I'm talking about. Good coaches don't do dumb sh*t like that, players do. It's setting a bad tone for an overconfident team that's setting itself up to get humiliated, and in a rebuilding year with a rookie quarterback no less! RIP Rex Ryan dude, you got a rough few years ahead of you. Writing's on the wall I think.

 

[JSn]

And Leon scrubbed you in Foxborough, you idiot. So don't say look at his college highlights, why don't you look at the highlights from the Thursday Night game, or the Tennessee game. He was an ALL-PRO.

You mean the game where our High School QB almost got the game back despite our horrendous D?

And let's not do the name-calling thing. That's unnecessary and is Deus' job.

 

[Rob0729]

Where did I say Sheppard will be elite I said he will be a more than serviceable #2 behind Revis - that's it, and he does have the potential to return to Pro Bowl form. This defense is loaded. I really am not being a homer when I say that, because they will carry the team for the most part of the season.

And Leon scrubbed you in Foxborough, you idiot. So don't say look at his college highlights, why don't you look at the highlights from the Thursday Night game, or the Tennessee game. He was an ALL-PRO.

I will be here, so if I have to eat my words, I will. But come on man...don't knock Washington.

I still don't know how the Jets defense is loaded. Other than Revis and Jenkins, I wouldn't say any of the Jets players are close to elite status. Pace and Thomas are decent as a pare, Pace is good and Thomas is decent. The DEs are mediocre with Ellis being good and the other DE a question mark. Rhodes and Harris have regressed and they both only played under Magini and Sutton (well Rhodes played under Edwards, but didn't get good until Mangini came to town). Sheppard has had a wildly inconsistent career and has always struggled against big WRs and the AFC East got some big ones. Scott is good, but not great and there are questions on whether he was part of a system or not.

I think the Jets' talent gets overrated because they got some of the more marquee free agents over the last two free agent classes that were both considered poor in terms of talent. Calvin Pace was sought after last offseason because the options were slim. If Terrell Suggs, Julis Peppers, and Karlos Dansby weren't franchised last year, Pace would have been an afterthough. Bart Scott was the Ravens third choice of their free agent LBs to try to keep eventhough Ray-Ray only has a couple years left. In fact, word was that Scott was Ryan's second choice after Ray-Ray.