Welcome to PatsFans.com

Let's put the backup QB issue on 'paper'

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, Aug 19, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,781
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +98 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    Since Cassel is the mob victim du jour, I thought it would be interesting to do an exercise.....

    Part 1

    Name the top 5 teams in the NFL.


    Part 2

    Of the top 5 teams, name those that would win 10+ games without their starting QB:


    Part 3

    After the top 5 teams, how much further do you need to go before you find a team that would be expected to win 10 games with its backup quarterback?


    Just for reference on part 1, I've got:
    1. Patriots
    2. Chargers
    3. Colts
    4. Cowboys
    5. Giants

    I'd have to take a long look at the Jaguars, too.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  2. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    Giants and Chargers maybe.

    Particularly Chargers. Billy Volack defeated the Colts. If you asked me if the Chargers could win 10 games w/o LT, different story. Rivers isn't the franchise player in that org.
  3. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    so...what are you saying??.....so other teams may not have a solid backup either and.....
  4. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Of those five teams, I think the Chargers and Cowboys would stand the best chance of still reaching 10+ with their starters gone. Volek is the most reliable backup of those teams you mentioned, and Brad Johnson is a capable veteran.
  5. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The reason more teams dont have good backups is because they are ALL playing for TB as we saw sunday nite!
  6. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,008
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Colts: Probably not but it would depend on their defense and the return to health of Freeney and Sanders. Again, I doubt it. The AFC South looks to be very competitive, on top of that.
    Chargers: Probably. Good defense and a very good running game. Volek is solid. The AFCW blows.
    Cowboys: Eh. Maybe but probably not. Tough division.
    Giants: I don't think they're winning 10+ games with Eli. A good running game and Burress would help David Carr or Anthony Wright look a little better than David Carr or Anthony Wright, though.

    Honestly, as I said in another thread, given an actual game plan and a healthy Matt Light to solidify the offensive line, I think there are too many weapons on the Patriots offense, receiving and running, for them to not remain competitive, especially if you think this defense could be top five in the league (which I do).

    I certainly wouldn't expect much in the playoffs but a 9 or 10 win season and competing for a division title would certainly remain realistic.

    I see I didn't follow the directions. I'd put the Jags on the list of the top five instead of the Giants. They'd have no passing game without Garrard but Taylor and Jones-Drew, along with a very strong defense, could get them to 10 wins.

    There are two types of teams that can reach double digit wins: ones that have very good defenses and very good running games and ones that have good backups. The Vikings are going to be damn good no matter who is at quarterback. The Titans could possibly fall into this category. The Packers have a lot of talent all over the field, but both of their backups are rookies... doubt it. Sage Rosenfels is a good backup in Houston, the Bucs have good backups, ummm... how many other teams have good backups? Maybe the Browns?

    The Titans, Packers, Texans, Bucs and Browns, though, may not even make it to 10 wins with their starters, so it's tough to say.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  7. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0


    Question One:

    1. Patriots
    2. Chargers
    3. Colts
    4. Cowboys
    5. Jags

    Question Two:

    None.

    Chargers - Voleck? One game does not make a Play-off caliber team.
    Colts - Sorgi? Please.
    Cowboys - Brad Johnson - Maybe, but doubt it.
    Jags - Got to admit, I have NO idea who's behind Garrard.
    Pats - Don't get me started.

    Question 3:

    None.

    The league is already weak in QB's - It's so Top Heavy with Brady, Manning, etc. - That when you get past those guys and then take out all the starters.....well that's just a mess.
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,718
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I would not put the Giants in the top 5 SB champs aside,they lost several key defenders most importantly Strahan

    The Jags and even the improved Vikings and Saints could be up and coming


    I would not expect much of any of these teams losing thier starting QB except for the Chargers who played without Rivers for a bit last year and the Vikings don't really have a great QB in Jackson so it would not be too much of a dropoff.

    The Patriots and Colts would be in a heap of trouble if Brady and Manning are hurt as was discussed in another thread posted yesterday - Their starting QBs are HOFers which makes the dropoff to the backups much farther backwards than the other teams IMO
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    So if other teams don't have good backups it's ok for us too. Sounds like positive thinking right there.

    A lot of teams have lousy starters. Maybe we should trade Brady before he gets old.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  10. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Really the bottom line is a healthy Matt Light, Neal and Brady and I'm not sure who can stop the Patriots, I don't care what the Pre-Season record is.
  11. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,008
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    There simply aren't a lot of good quarterbacks in the league, backup or otherwise.

    It's hard to get something out of nothing, especially when you're not inclined to invest a lot of money or draft picks on the position of backup to an Iron Man legend. (Knock on wood, of course.)

    Sometimes, no matter how positive you think, you just can't turn **** into gold.
  12. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    That appears to be the argument the OP is advocating.
  13. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,845
    Likes Received:
    28
    Ratings:
    +32 / 2 / -0

    Also that there just isn't a lot of QB talent to go around. The fact that none of the top teams have a good back up doesn't mean we'll be ok if TB goes down, it means that there just aren't good QBs available that will play backup.
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,781
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +98 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    The only thing 'the OP' is advocating is for people to step off the ledge and to stop acting as if they know more than BB does about his quarterbacks and how they are doing this exhibition season. The rest is just common sense that doesn't seem to be all that common here lately.

    However, that has nothing to do with the exercise I posted about, which is a separate question, even though there is some overlap.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  15. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    It doesn't mean you accept lack of progress. We've had vets who could hardly run or throw, but they could control a team.

    There is a minimum standard. If it isn't met, you move on until it is. Maybe you'll get lucky with a 6th, it happens.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  16. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,718
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    So what you are saying is Belichick signing Duane Starks was a good move,Belichick bringing in Monte Beisel was a good fit,Belichick adding Chad Brown who he thought had something left
    -
    Yes Belichick even though he is a smart coach, does make mistakes with players no matter if its preseason or offseason and keeping Cassel this long is one of them along with the losers I mentioned above.
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,781
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +98 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    Thank you for once again illustrating the silliness of some of the opposing arguments people have been tossing out by both arguing something I clearly didn't AND doing it poorly given the recent drafting at CB and LB. If you keep up like this, people are going to start thinking that you're just a stalking horse for me.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,860
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +27 / 1 / -1

    Personally, I thnink however you rank the top 5 teams, if all lost their QBs, there wouldnt be much difference in the order.

    I'd go:
    1) Patriots
    2) Colts
    3) Chargers
    4) Cowboys
    5) Jaguars

    I also think that the differences between those teams are largely because of the QBs, and if you removed the QBs they would all still be contenders, and will all playing backup QBs I'd drop the Colts down 1 spot and leave the rest in the same order.

    The idea that Brady is so great that the team would fail without him is wrong to me.
    The team was 18-1 last year because of him, but that doesnt mean its 1-18 without him. There is so much talent on this team that it is EASILY a 10 win team with anyone at QB, what Brady adds is that those 10 wins are a whole lot easier, and the other 6-9 games are mostly won with him, and mostly lost without.
  19. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,845
    Likes Received:
    28
    Ratings:
    +32 / 2 / -0

    I don't think that trend is a coincidence. If you have invested in a start-worthy backup QB, the rest of your team most likely sucks or you have a mediocre starting QB. Backup QBs aren't supposed to be as good as starters, that's why they are backups. And the small sample size of two preseason games taken out of context (we don't even know what BB is trying to sort out in these games) isn't enough to convince me that we desperately need a better backup QB, even if we could realistically get one, which we probably can't.
  20. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,718
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    You just have it in your little mind that Belichick is free of making mistakes and judgment - While I agree that he is the best coach in the league both in smarts and strategic plans vs. his opponents, he is far from being perfect and Casell on this roster is a waste and a mistake that everyone EXCEPT YOU realizes.

    Maybe its crazy but maybe Cassel is that Patriot player type of guy from head to toe and is so likable by everyone that its hard for the team to let him go despite him sucking in just about any game he has been in,Thats the only logical explanation I can see because I dont think there is a fan in Patriots Nation EXCEPT YOU that can agree that Cassel does not have the talent for the pros

    Show me what you have seen that makes us all wrong besides the fact that you think Belichick is perfect in who he signs and keeps?

    Yes Belichick has an excellent track record of picking players who produce and has gone on to win 3 SBs but he also has had some losers who are now selling vacumn cleaners door to door.


    Let me guess,You are the ONE that bought that Cassel jersey on sale at Patriots proshop because I saw they finally sold the one they had just last week after being in inventory for 3 years - I knew it was going to sell quickly for $1.99 - congratulations - What a deal,wear it proudly! :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page