Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X3 Merged)

[sebman2112]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Very much different body types, but styles are more similar than you might think.

Emmitt had that same ability to hit the line, feel the hole close, and just bounce outside for the extra yards. McFadden does that so well, too.

I love that instinct in a back. I wish Maroney had it.

They are nothing a like, sorry. I'm not even going to explain everything to you about their running styles, but I'll tell you that I laughed when I noticed the comparison...

It's like the genius (mediot) who compared DMac to Barry Sanders, who he is nothing like.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Given that the game plan was obviously pass, pass, pass, and that none of the other RBs got touches, the answer is no.

Of course I don't think I've ever agreed with Armen on anything Patriots-related before.

But I DO love you, Jack. In the deepest reaches of my heart and soul. Really.

DaBunz and PatsSox23, too!

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Remember the early weeks of last year when he was looking like a star in the making?

Remember the early weeks of JR Redmond's career? How about Sedrick Shaw?

Maroney just has not proven it out over the long haul.

In the words of Ron Burgandy, "Agree to disagree."

Just enjoy the ride fella.

I am, don't worry!

Living in South Florida while the Patriots going 16-0 and the Dolphins are going 0-16? These are good times, brother. GOOD TIMES!

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Maroney gets 8 carries because he is ineffective.

Oh really? Then riddle me this, Batman. Then why didn't any of the other RBs get carries in lieu of Maroney?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I'm tired of even talking about Maroney's useless arse. The kid sucks. Flat out. I mean, I just hate when the kid is even in the game. Anyone that makes excuses for this kid and thinks he was worth a 1st rd pick is a homer. There I said it. Call me whatever you want, but for cris sakes, at least I don't try to make chicken salad out of chicken you know what. I hope to god we get ourselves a new feature running back this offseason. Maroney is garbage.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I'm tired of even talking about Maroney's useless arse. The kid sucks. Flat out. I mean, I just hate when the kid is even in the game. Anyone that makes excuses for this kid and thinks he was worth a 1st rd pick is a homer. There I said it. Call me whatever you want, but for cris sakes, at least I don't try to make chicken salad out of chicken you know what. I hope to god we get ourselves a new feature running back this offseason. Maroney is garbage.

And this is what completely discredits you as a poster on this forum. Is this supposed to be an argument?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I'll agree to the extent that BB is just taking advantage of his personnel this year. If he had a great RB, he would be taking advantage of that too. Note how the Rams and Colts had prolific passing offenses, and had RBs (Faulk and James) that thrived running against defenses geared to stop the pass.

The question is why hasn't Maroney thrived in this ideal circumstance. The defenses are all geared to stop Brady, Moss, Welker, etc. Yet when he is given the ball he has been fairly ineffective.

Let's review Maroney's YPC over the last 5 games, a stat that many Maroney supporters had cited as his main defense.

15 for 59 3.9 ypc
6 for 19 3.2 ypc
10 for 31 3.1 ypc
13 for 34 3.4 ypc
8 for 18 2.3 ypc

Which gives us a grand total of:
53 carries for 161 yards and a 3.04 ypc over the last 5 games.

Now believe it or not, when the Patriots get into the playoffs they are going to encounter tough run defenses yet again. Teams that make it into the playoffs are above average to very good. What indicators could possibly make one think that Maroney's performance will dramatically improve come playoff time when his numbers have been in rapid decline over the past 5 games?? When Maroney has failed to step up his game against quality defenses, what makes us think he can mysteriously transform himself for the playoffs?

There are 2 possible "redemption" games coming up for Maroney.
Against the Jets who sport the #30 ranked run defense in the NFL and the Dolphins who sport the #32 ranked run defense in the NFL.

If Maroney cannot romp over these pathetic teams, we'll know that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Let's end the excuses. The next 2 games are against 2 of the worst defensive teams in the league, Jets and Dolphins. Show us what you've got Maroney!

I am a big believer in balance. I have always thought that coaches like Andy Reid and Mike Martz were doing their teams a disservice with their unswerving dedication to passing and hatred of running. Defensively I think LeBeau and Jim Johnson play their hand too early and blitz too much. However, I think we are seeing something with this year's Patriots we have never seen before. The effectiveness of the passing game is without equal and with few exceptions (Eagles and Ravens games) the protection has been so good that Brady and the receiving corps can continue converting first downs almost at will. This is something unheard of and I believe you have to abandon conventional wisdom and adjust your strategy in order to take advantage of this unusual level of strength in the passing game. I guess the old adage, "Don't fix it if it isn't broken" applies here.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

And this is what completely discredits you as a poster on this forum. Is this supposed to be an argument?

My argument has been well established in countless other threads on Maroney'. Do some homework and read up. I'm sorry if you can't take the blinders off and see what a waste of a 1st rd pick and what a mediocre player(at best) that Maroney truly is, but I can and have for weeks now. I can voice my opinion whether you like it or not.

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I'm tired of even talking about Maroney's useless arse. The kid sucks. Flat out. I mean, I just hate when the kid is even in the game. Anyone that makes excuses for this kid and thinks he was worth a 1st rd pick is a homer. There I said it. Call me whatever you want, but for cris sakes, at least I don't try to make chicken salad out of chicken you know what. I hope to god we get ourselves a new feature running back this offseason. Maroney is garbage.

I know this is probably far beyond your capability or desire but do you think just once you could make an arguement and use some facts to support your point of view? Aside from the rhetoric and insults your post amounts to nothing. Could you at least put together an analysis or provide us with some insight the rest of us don't have to prove your point? Maroney is a running back in an offense that currently does not need to run. If he was as bad as you say, other backs on the team would be getting the meager carries the Patriots are running. However it is Maroney getting these carries. I think the coaching staff knows what they are doing and you using words like "garbage" and "useless" and "sucks" is about as intelligent and insightful as a second year safety guaranteeing a win. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you want to post it, at least try to use some intellgence and analysis. Facts can be inconvenient, but at least they are better than useless banter.

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I'll agree to the extent that BB is just taking advantage of his personnel this year. If he had a great RB, he would be taking advantage of that too. Note how the Rams and Colts had prolific passing offenses, and had RBs (Faulk and James) that thrived running against defenses geared to stop the pass.

The question is why hasn't Maroney thrived in this ideal circumstance. The defenses are all geared to stop Brady, Moss, Welker, etc. Yet when he is given the ball he has been fairly ineffective.

Let's review Maroney's YPC over the last 5 games, a stat that many Maroney supporters had cited as his main defense.

15 for 59 3.9 ypc
6 for 19 3.2 ypc
10 for 31 3.1 ypc
13 for 34 3.4 ypc
8 for 18 2.3 ypc

Which gives us a grand total of:
53 carries for 161 yards and a 3.04 ypc over the last 5 games.

Now believe it or not, when the Patriots get into the playoffs they are going to encounter tough run defenses yet again. Teams that make it into the playoffs are above average to very good. What indicators could possibly make one think that Maroney's performance will dramatically improve come playoff time when his numbers have been in rapid decline over the past 5 games?? When Maroney has failed to step up his game against quality defenses, what makes us think he can mysteriously transform himself for the playoffs?

There are 2 possible "redemption" games coming up for Maroney.
Against the Jets who sport the #30 ranked run defense in the NFL and the Dolphins who sport the #32 ranked run defense in the NFL.

If Maroney cannot romp over these pathetic teams, we'll know that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Let's end the excuses. The next 2 games are against 2 of the worst defensive teams in the league, Jets and Dolphins. Show us what you've got Maroney!

I look at the stats you provide and the one thing that leaps out at me is number of carries. If you take his average yards per carry and expand it out to 25 carries a game, it averages out to almost 80 yards a game. Now bear in mind that this is using the very small sample of carries (only 10 a game on average.) The average could be much higher if he had more opportunities. Regardless, 80 ypg while not mind blowing is certainly not bad.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I look at the stats you provide and the one thing that leaps out at me is number of carries. If you take his average yards per carry and expand it out to 25 carries a game, it averages out to almost 80 yards a game. Now bear in mind that this is using the very small sample of carries (only 10 a game on average.) The average could be much higher if he had more opportunities. Regardless, 80 ypg while not mind blowing is certainly not bad.

The problem with your supposition is that you cannot create extra carries out of thin air. If Maroney has been running the ball ineffectively, what will the staff naturally do, why pass it of course. Maroney's own ineffectiveness when handed the ball has led to fewer carries for him. I sense that the coaching staff has lost faith in Maroney. And with his actual production of 3.04 ypc over the last 5 games in mind, who can blame them?

You also fail to address the issue of Maroney vs back to back "doormat" teams in the upcoming weeks. If Maroney fails to produce against the #30 and #32 ranked run defenses, can you admit that there is a PROBLEM?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I know this is probably far beyond your capability or desire but do you think just once you could make an arguement and use some facts to support your point of view? Aside from the rhetoric and insults your post amounts to nothing. Could you at least put together an analysis or provide us with some insight the rest of us don't have to prove your point? Maroney is a running back in an offense that currently does not need to run. If he was as bad as you say, other backs on the team would be getting the meager carries the Patriots are running. However it is Maroney getting these carries. I think the coaching staff knows what they are doing and you using words like "garbage" and "useless" and "sucks" is about as intelligent and insightful as a second year safety guaranteeing a win. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you want to post it, at least try to use some intellgence and analysis. Facts can be inconvenient, but at least they are better than useless banter.

Again, you guys read what you want to read. I have used countless stats and facts about other premier running backs and how Maroney doesn't measure up. I'm not going to rehash it. You can do some homework and find those posts or you can ignore my posts altogether. I don't care. Just like you have an "opinion" that Maroney does not get more carries because we are a passing offense, I also have an "opinion" that a running back that was GOOD ENOUGH would be getting carries in this offense because it would make our offense even more lethal and hard to defend if the oppossing defense didn't know what to expect. Marony doesn't get carries because he is a MEDIOCRE player that is not GOOD ENOUGH to get more involved in the offense. The BEST players play. Maroney is not one of our BEST players. Not even close. That, my friend, is MY OPINION. Either accept it or ignore my posts. Because, at the end of the day, Mr. Mediocre has had a MEDIOCRE season(to say the least) and that is not my fault.

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

The problem with your supposition is that you cannot create extra carries out of thin air. If Maroney has been running the bal ineffectively, what will the staff naturally do, why pass it of course. Maroney's own ineffectiveness when handed the ball has led to fewer carries for him. I sense that the coaching staff has lost faith in Maroney. And with his actual production of 3.04 ypc in mind, who can blame them?

You also fail to address the issue of Maroney vs back to back "doormat" teams in the upcoming weeks. If Maroney fails to produce against the #30 and #32 ranked run defenses, can you admit that there is a PROBLEM?

I am not creating anything. I am using the actual numbers to make a pretty good educated guess as to what the results would be if he was given 25 carries a game. This conclusion is based on his actual performance, not something made up. You combine this with the fact that the Patriots passing game is something otherworldly, then you have an environment where it is very unfair to judge any Patriots back this year on their running production. Now I may be wrong, but until the Patriots have a more traditional offense, there is no way to evaluate Maroney (or any other Patriots running back.)

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

The problem with your supposition is that you cannot create extra carries out of thin air. If Maroney has been running the ball ineffectively, what will the staff naturally do, why pass it of course. Maroney's own ineffectiveness when handed the ball has led to fewer carries for him. I sense that the coaching staff has lost faith in Maroney. And with his actual production of 3.04 ypc over the last 5 games in mind, who can blame them?

You also fail to address the issue of Maroney vs back to back "doormat" teams in the upcoming weeks. If Maroney fails to produce against the #30 and #32 ranked run defenses, can you admit that there is a PROBLEM?

Why do you insist on ignoring everything that's shown you? You make the same wrong points over and over even after the evidence of your error has been plainly displayed. It's as if you're being deliberately obtuse.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I am not creating anything. I am using the actual numbers to make a pretty good educated guess as to what the results would be if he was given 25 carries a game. This conclusion is based on his actual performance, not something made up. You combine this with the fact that the Patriots passing game is something otherworldly, then you have an environment where it is very unfair to judge any Patriots back this year on their running production. Now I may be wrong, but until the Patriots have a more traditional offense, there is no way to evaluate Maroney (or any other Patriots running back.)

Unlike you I cannot give any RB a pass simply because the Patriots have a great passing offense. As I have cited before, many teams with prolific passing offenses have had very productive runningbacks.

Brady carries this team, that's a given. But the reason Maroney has produced mediocre numbers is because he has not EARNED more carries.

Sure I could go by your theory and project out Kevin Faulk to 25 carries a game and he might end up with better numbers than Joseph Addai, but it would be an exercise in sophistry, since you and I both know that he is not better than Joseph Addai. The same holds true for Maroney. Let's end the excuses, and look at the cold hard facts. The numbers tell us that Maroney has been in decline over the last 5 games.

Why don't you project Maroney's numbers with that 3.04 YPC, and think to yourself why would any sane coaching staff keep feeding the ball to Maroney when he is constantly getting stuffed? The answer is that they wouldn't and in fact they haven't.

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Again, you guys read what you want to read. I have used countless stats and facts about other premier running backs and how Maroney doesn't measure up. I'm not going to rehash it. You can do some homework and find those posts or you can ignore my posts altogether. I don't care. Just like you have an "opinion" that Maroney does not get more carries because we are a passing offense, I also have an "opinion" that a running back that was GOOD ENOUGH would be getting carries in this offense because it would make our offense even more lethal and hard to defend if the oppossing defense didn't know what to expect. Marony doesn't get carries because he is a MEDIOCRE player that is not GOOD ENOUGH to get more involved in the offense. The BEST players play. Maroney is not one of our BEST players. Not even close. That, my friend, is MY OPINION. Either accept it or ignore my posts. Because, at the end of the day, Mr. Mediocre has had a MEDIOCRE season(to say the least) and that is not my fault.

Last time I checked he was playing and getting the few carries that are available. If you want to look at reality you'll see that the Patriots offense is already pretty hard to contain. You could even make the argument that holding back on the running game is something that benefits the Patriots now that they are into the home stretch with the playoffs not far ahead. It is a strategy they have used before; cold, inclement weather comes and the Patriot running game re-emerges. Right now the coaching staff could care less about it. If they did, other backs would be getting carries as well, but currently we only see Faulk in protection or as receiver on passing plays, Evans in an FB role, and Eckel and Evans on special teams. You put all these factors together and this very much seems like a calculated decision by the team. You can rail on Maroney all you like, but if you don't look at the situation as a whole, your analysis becomes very suspect and subjective.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

My argument has been well established in countless other threads on Maroney'. Do some homework and read up. I'm sorry if you can't take the blinders off and see what a waste of a 1st rd pick and what a mediocre player(at best) that Maroney truly is, but I can and have for weeks now. I can voice my opinion whether you like it or not.

Sure you can. Luckily most people recognize you for what you are: an antagonistic moron who takes any opportunity to throw players under the bus.

Pathetic.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Why do you insist on ignoring everything that's shown you? You make the same wrong points over and over even after the evidence of your error has been plainly displayed. It's as if you're being deliberately obtuse.

True or False, over the last 5 games Maroney has a a 3.04 YPC? TRUE. Sorry, but you cannot turn a truth into a falsehood. That's just simple logic.

 

[BritPat]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

True or False, over the last 5 games Maroney has a a 3.04 YPC? TRUE. Sorry, but you cannot turn a truth into a falsehood. That's just simple logic.

Which defenses have we faced in the last 5 games?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Last time I checked he was playing and getting the few carries that are available. If you want to look at reality you'll see that the Patriots offense is already pretty hard to contain. You could even make the argument that holding back on the running game is something that benefits the Patriots now that they are into the home stretch with the playoffs not far ahead. It is a strategy they have used before; cold, inclement weather comes and the Patriot running game re-emerges. Right now the coaching staff could care less about it. If they did, other backs would be getting carries as well, but currently we only see Faulk in protection or as receiver on passing plays, Evans in an FB role, and Eckel and Evans on special teams. You put all these factors together and this very much seems like a calculated decision by the team. You can rail on Maroney all you like, but if you don't look at the situation as a whole, your analysis becomes very suspect and subjective.

Bro, we have no QUALITY running backs. Kevin Faulk is a great 3rd down back and that's it. So because Eckel and Evans don't get carries, that justifies a 1st Rd Pick NOT getting carries? Puhleaze. You act like we have a STABLE on great backs that BB chooses not to use. NONE of these guys get carries because they are not GOOD ENOUGH. That includes Mr. MEDIOCRE.