Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X3 Merged)

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

The Pats have proven this year that you do not need a great running game. Yards rushed and time of possession are two of the more overrated stats in the NFL. Don't forget the guy on injured reserve, he was better than average til he got crunched in the Dallas game. Mental block on his name.

Sammy Morris.

He was running great and I firmly believe he would have taken the #1 spot before too long.

His loss hurt more than we thought.

Granted, we're winning, so it's all good, but at some point, we're gonna need to be able to run the clock and grind out first downs on the ground.

Maroney gets 8 carries because he is ineffective.

I can think of another 10-12 plays where I am sure they would have run if they had confidence in their back. Instead, they went to screens.

What amazes me about the Pats is that they can be effective in play action without having a running threat.

Think about that for a second.

That's pretty awesome!

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

ADPF -
Sorry but you are one of the worst evaluators out here. You've had NUMEROUS dumb threads attacking players and the coaches. And every time you've been shown to be incompetent.

So, I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from you, then?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Laurence was, again, the only negative in an otherwise all-around positive night. I am afraid at some point this lack of a running game is going to come back to bite us on the arse.

I truly believe Laurence can develop into a nice third-down, change of pace type back, catching screens and picking up blocks, similar to what Faulk is now, after Kevin retires. His two catches for big yardage and first downs vs. the Ravens were beautiful and a glimpse of what he could become.

But to date, Laurence just has not shown me he has what it takes to be an every down back.

Yesterday, twice, he ran directly into the line, when he could have bounced out to his right a couple of steps and picked up 6-7-8 yards or more. He just does not see the field well.

The Pats are now well positioned to have a serious shot at Darren McFadden, because Miami is not going to draft him, seeing as how they already have Ronnie Brown.

I mean, I watched the Pats prefer to throw screen passes to Wes Welker for first downs (a play that works very well, by the way) as opposed to handing off to their "feature" back.

Belichick keeps defending Maroney, but I am convinced that is smoke and mirrors to keep Maroney's confidence up until he can find another solution.

Anyone who understands anything about football knew that the Patriots would not be running the ball yesterday. As a matter of fact, I'd pointed this out in at least one thread prior to the game. However, the notion that Maroney was in any way a negative yesterday is so absurd that you should take a bow. You do realize that the play action fake for the big bomb worked because of Maroney's 11 yard gain earlier, right?

It's simply fascinating to watch people who claim to be fans fail to grasp the obvious about this team. Let me spell it out for you and the rest of the Maroney bashers:

1.) Tom Brady = Greatest quarterback ever

2.) Randy Moss = All but unstoppable one-on-one

3.) Donte Stallworth = Tremendous YAC receiver

4.) Wes Welker = The NFL's best slot receiver

5.) Kevin Faulk = Maybe the league's best 3rd down back

6.) Ben Watson = A matchup nightmare for opposing coaches


An offense with that lineup is going to pass the ball a lot. An offense with that lineup, that is going for at least 3 records (QB TDs, WR TDs, Yards), is going to pass the ball even more, especially against good run defenses. In fact, let me give you a news flash:

New England is probably going to try getting Brady and Moss their respective records this week. You should expect to see a great deal of passing this weekend as well.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

if he doesnt pan out as an every down back... at least he can replace faulk as a 3rd down, pass-catching back... to be honest, i expected big things from him...

I think he would be AWESOME in that role.

I am not a "Maroney Basher". I just think he would be better suited to the "change of pace" back role and we get another back (McFadden, McFadden, McFadden) as our primary runner.

I am not sure why that opinion stirs such vitriolic attcks on this board, but whatever. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Maroney gets 8 carries because he is ineffective.

Maroney gets 8 carries because the Patriots do not need to run the ball against the Steelers. This much should be obvious.

 

[sieglo]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

I think he would be AWESOME in that role.

I am not a "Maroney Basher". I just think he would be better suited to the "change of pace" back role and we get another back (McFadden, McFadden, McFadden) as our primary runner.

I am not sure why that opinion stirs such vitriolic attcks on this board, but whatever. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Maroney is poorly suited to be a change of pace back because he is too slow in transition between catching the ball and turning upfield.

On the other hand, he is a perfectly good "standard" running back so I'm not worried about his future on this team.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Emmit Smith and McFadden have vastly different running styles.

Emmit never had take it to the yard speed Mc Fadden posses.

Emmit was a grinding, downhill slasher who ran low. McFadden runs alot taller with more speed and hip swivel.

At Florida, Emmitt was the ultimate home run hitter!

In the Dallas offense, that was not his role.

I can recall numerous highlights of Emmitt breaking free and canning defenses on the way to the end zone at Escambia HS and in the Swamp or some other SEC venue.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Sammy Morris.

He was running great and I firmly believe he would have taken the #1 spot before too long.

His loss hurt more than we thought.

Granted, we're winning, so it's all good, but at some point, we're gonna need to be able to run the clock and grind out first downs on the ground.

Maroney gets 8 carries because he is ineffective.

I can think of another 10-12 plays where I am sure they would have run if they had confidence in their back. Instead, they went to screens.

What amazes me about the Pats is that they can be effective in play action without having a running threat.

Think about that for a second.

That's pretty awesome!

There's a book you really need to read:

 

[borg]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Anyone who understands anything about football knew that the Patriots would not be running the ball yesterday. As a matter of fact, I'd pointed this out in at least one thread prior to the game. However, the notion that Maroney was in any way a negative yesterday is so absurd that you should take a bow. You do realize that the play action fake for the big bomb worked because of Maroney's 11 yard gain earlier, right?

It's simply fascinating to watch people who claim to be fans fail to grasp the obvious about this team. Let me spell it out for you and the rest of the Maroney bashers:

1.) Tom Brady = Greatest quarterback ever

2.) Randy Moss = All but unstoppable one-on-one

3.) Donte Stallworth = Tremendous YAC receiver

4.) Wes Welker = The NFL's best slot receiver

5.) Kevin Faulk = Maybe the league's best 3rd down back

6.) Ben Watson = A matchup nightmare for opposing coaches


An offense with that lineup is going to pass the ball a lot. An offense with that lineup, that is going for at least 3 records (QB TDs, WR TDs, Yards), is going to pass the ball even more, especially against good run defenses. In fact, let me give you a news flash:

New England is probably going to try getting Brady and Moss their respective records this week. You should expect to see a great deal of passing this weekend as well.

7.) First rounder....DECOY......I'm still laughing at this one

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Did you actually watch the game? You are going to judge a running back on his performance in an offense that has no reason to run the ball whatsoever? The Pittsburgh defense does not give up up running yards. Bellichick has said it before, "Do you just want us to run into a brick wall over and over again?" You take what the defense gives you and the Steelers pass defense just kept on giving. Maroney has had durability issues, but he is young and learning. He has made too many plays in his limited playing time over the past two seasons to write him off. Do not disparage a young player who has yet to develop. Right now the Patriots offense is doing pretty well I think that Maroney will get his opportunities in the last few games of this season to show what he can do. The Jets are giving up 141.9 yards rushing per game. The Dolphins are giving up 155.4. I think it will be a pretty good opportunity to run the ball and Maroney should get some time. I hope this is the case because all of this talk of him being a bust is nonsense. We haven't seen enough of him this year to even discuss it. Let's wait until he actually gets a normal number of carries before you show him the door.

Okay, but every week it's the same "How can we judge Laurence when he only got XX Carries?"

WELL, WHY DOESN'T LAURENCE GET CARRIES?

It's not like there weren't situaitons where we could have used a back getting us 4 yards a carry to convert first downs and run down the clock?

Pittsburgh's defense was tired late and still able to stop Maroney.

Brady had to resort to attempt a pass to Stallworth on 3rd down because Maroney got zilch on 1st and 2nd down.

I don't know, I guess we're just of different opnions, but I say get through this season somehow without a true running game, and next year, starting with mini-camp, start moulding Maroney into a third-down, change of pace guy and get a TRUE every-down ball carrier.

I guess my mind could be changed, as it has in the past, but Maroney would really have to show me something for that to happen.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Anyone who understands anything about football knew that the Patriots would not be running the ball yesterday. As a matter of fact, I'd pointed this out in at least one thread prior to the game. However, the notion that Maroney was in any way a negative yesterday is so absurd that you should take a bow. You do realize that the play action fake for the big bomb worked because of Maroney's 11 yard gain earlier, right?

It's simply fascinating to watch people who claim to be fans fail to grasp the obvious about this team. Let me spell it out for you and the rest of the Maroney bashers:

1.) Tom Brady = Greatest quarterback ever

2.) Randy Moss = All but unstoppable one-on-one

3.) Donte Stallworth = Tremendous YAC receiver

4.) Wes Welker = The NFL's best slot receiver

5.) Kevin Faulk = Maybe the league's best 3rd down back

6.) Ben Watson = A matchup nightmare for opposing coaches


An offense with that lineup is going to pass the ball a lot. An offense with that lineup, that is going for at least 3 records (QB TDs, WR TDs, Yards), is going to pass the ball even more, especially against good run defenses. In fact, let me give you a news flash:

New England is probably going to try getting Brady and Moss their respective records this week. You should expect to see a great deal of passing this weekend as well.

Don't forget that old Florida Gator Jabar Gaffney!

Jabar Gaffney = Clutch-A s s Reciever!

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Maroney is poorly suited to be a change of pace back because he is too slow in transition between catching the ball and turning upfield.

He looked pretty darn good catching those two balls against the Ravens...

I think if you get him thinking in that mindset, he would be fine. He seems to have good hands.

And you have one of the best in the game, Kevin Faulk, right there to mentor him.

 

[Haterproof]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Maroney IMO = Reggie Bush.Reggie is also not an every down back.How ever both RBs can hurt defenses in different ways.I really think Bill is trying to keep his RBs (especially Maroney) healthy for the cold snowy playoff games.As of now I think Maroney will be used the same way as Bush is used in the Saints offense.

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Okay, but every week it's the same "How can we judge Laurence when he only got XX Carries?"

WELL, WHY DOESN'T LAURENCE GET CARRIES?

It's not like there weren't situaitons where we could have used a back getting us 4 yards a carry to convert first downs and run down the clock?

Pittsburgh's defense was tired late and still able to stop Maroney.

Brady had to resort to attempt a pass to Stallworth on 3rd down because Maroney got zilch on 1st and 2nd down.

I don't know, I guess we're just of different opnions, but I say get through this season somehow without a true running game, and next year, starting with mini-camp, start moulding Maroney into a thrid-down, change of pace guy and get a TRUE every-down ball carrier.

I guess my mind could be changed, as it has in the past, but Maroney would really have to show me something for that to happen.

You ask the question, "Why isn't he getting the carries?" I think the answer is pretty obvious. When other teams can't stop the Patriots passing attack, why bother with running, particularly against a team with a good run defense. You take what is given, and if opposing defenses keep giving passing yards, why run. I really do think it is that simple.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Maroney IMO = Reggie Bush.Reggie is also not an every down back.How ever both RBs can hurt defenses in different ways.I really think Bill is trying to keep his RBs (especially Maroney) healthy for the cold snowy playoff games.As of now I think Maroney will be used the same way as Bush is used in the Saints offense.

I truly hope you're right and I am wrong!

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

You ask the question, "Why isn't he getting the carries?" I think the answer is pretty obvious. When other teams can't stop the Patriots passing attack, why bother with running, particularly against a team with a good run defense. You take what is given, and if opposing defenses keep giving passing yards, why run. I really do think it is that simple.

It could be that simple, but I just can't imagine a complete football coach like Bill Belichick not wanting to have the balance of the run/pass.

Especially, when he has been so committed to that in the past.

 

[sieglo]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Maroney IMO = Reggie Bush.Reggie is also not an every down back.How ever both RBs can hurt defenses in different ways.I really think Bill is trying to keep his RBs (especially Maroney) healthy for the cold snowy playoff games.As of now I think Maroney will be used the same way as Bush is used in the Saints offense.

Maroney is nothing like Reggie Bush. Doesn't run like him. Is built differently than him. Catches the ball differently than him. There are no commonalities there. :bricks:

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Given that the game plan was obviously pass, pass, pass, and that none of the other RBs got touches, the answer is no.

Of course I don't think I've ever agreed with Armen on anything Patriots-related before.

 

[BritPat]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

Okay, but every week it's the same "How can we judge Laurence when he only got XX Carries?"

WELL, WHY DOESN'T LAURENCE GET CARRIES?

As has been stated, have you seen our passing offense? Have you seen what we've done to teams this year? Why run the ball if you don't have to? Say you live 10 miles from your workplace, and you have a Ferrari parked in your garage, would you still walk to work?

It's not like there weren't situaitons where we could have used a back getting us 4 yards a carry to convert first downs and run down the clock?

Very true, but why change what's working?

Pittsburgh's defense was tired late and still able to stop Maroney.

Brady had to resort to attempt a pass to Stallworth on 3rd down because Maroney got zilch on 1st and 2nd down.

He had two late runs, with the game done, finished, over - why are you taking exception to that? Why should we try a pass play and risk an injury to Brady?

I don't know, I guess we're just of different opnions, but I say get through this season somehow without a true running game, and next year, starting with mini-camp, start moulding Maroney into a thrid-down, change of pace guy and get a TRUE every-down ball carrier.

I guess my mind could be changed, as it has in the past, but Maroney would really have to show me something for that to happen.

I really don't get all the criticism aimed at maroney, honestly, okay he has a tendency to dance, shuffle or whatever you want to call it at the LOS, which costs him now and again, but in the main he's not been running it because we've not needed to run it. When he's been given a large number of carries in a game, he's done well, Buffalo for example.

Remember the early weeks of last year when he was looking like a star in the making? He was being touted by quite a few experts as the best rookie RB before BB seemingly started favouring Dillon with more carries. He's a good player with huge upside, and who should be getting more carries, but for one reason or another isn't, that's how I see him.

I also get the feeling we're holding back the run game for a reason, not just because of our passing ability. We have something up our sleeve, I'm certain.

Just enjoy the ride fella.

 

[mdhprime]

Re: Honestly, can we now all agree that Maroney is NOT the answer as an every down ba

It could be that simple, but I just can't imagine a complete football coach like Bill Belichick not wanting to have the balance of the run/pass.

Especially, when he has been so committed to that in the past.

I am a big believer in balance. I have always thought that coaches like Andy Reid and Mike Martz were doing their teams a disservice with their unswerving dedication to passing and hatred of running. Defensively I think LeBeau and Jim Johnson play their hand too early and blitz too much. However, I think we are seeing something with this year's Patriots we have never seen before. The effectiveness of the passing game is without equal and with few exceptions (Eagles and Ravens games) the protection has been so good that Brady and the receiving corps can continue converting first downs almost at will. This is something unheard of and I believe you have to abandon conventional wisdom and adjust your strategy in order to take advantage of this unusual level of strength in the passing game. I guess the old adage, "Don't fix it if it isn't broken" applies here.