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Let's hear it for the defense!

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Jan 14, 2012.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ok, Brady was otherworldly other than a brief stretch early, but I think the story was the defense tonight.

    They have been much maligned all year, but other than after the Brady INT they were the exact opposite of what people biatched about them this year,. They were agressive, swarming, disciplined, stingy, and shutdown. The defense was great from start to finish.

    Yes, the Denver offense isn't great, but they have played very well at times this year including last week (granted against a depleted Steelers with a stubborn DC who wouldn't adjust). Even against a bad offense, what the defense did today was impressive.

    All you "With this defense, the Pats are one and done" crowd have a bit of crow to eat tonight.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Although i picked the pats to win 42-24 i had posted that i thought they would be one and done. I'm eating my Crow sauted with onions. But i'm glad i was proved wrong. The defense played great.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  3. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

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    They did play well but Denver is not much of a offensive threat.

    The good news is whoever they play next week are not the Saints.
    Neither team has a great offense but very good defense's.
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it was important to see the D play well against a team trying to be balanced. That means you must defend the whole field. Its not the same as defeniding a pass heavy offense, but it was a great effort.
  5. JDot

    JDot Rookie

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    Lights out tonight. The Pats D balled...

    But let's not get carried away. The Pats D strength is againts the run, not the pass.

    Tough road ahead.

    But man I was so stoked about our D today...
  6. bondjames.

    bondjames. Banned

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    There is only one GREAT offensive team left for the patriots, and that is the packers.
  7. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    Defense was lights out!!

    Great job on both sided of the ball as well as ST, was a great game!
  8. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Spikes and Chung mean so much to this defense and getting those 2 back shows what kind of defense we can be going forward.

    Also like BB playing McC at safety and Moore at CB, it's working.

    They were agressive all night and the DLine just mauled that good Denver OLine.
  9. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    Fantastic game by Ninkovich, Ellis, Warren, and others. While we weren't challenged in the passing game, I don't see our future AFC opponents challenging us in the passing game either.
  10. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    Caused 14 negative plays. Impressive. Let's hope they play like this for the next two games. That's all I ask. That's all we ask as Pats fans.
  11. strngplyr

    strngplyr Rookie

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    Very impressed with how they shut down the option. Was like facing Miami and the Wildcat for the second time in 08. Never run the same gameplan twice against BB.
  12. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lets hope they keep it up next week!
  13. strngplyr

    strngplyr Rookie

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    ...one clap!
  14. Joey007

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    Whoever wins either way tommorow (or today), we gotta big challenge for the run D next week cause we're either facing Ray Rice or the Foster/Tate combo.
  15. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven Rookie

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    #2 defense in the NFL. But nobody will listen. Could even be #1 when it's all said and done. They have been this all year long. People should have known this on the day they lost to the Giants.

    The Giants, #8 offense in PPG in the NFL, average 24.6 points per game against an average defense and have a +0.4 turnover margin.

    When the Patriots have 4 turnovers against the Giants vaulted D and all the Giants could muster up is 24 points, which is less than their average, that tells you something. This defense is good enough to take on the #8 offense and neutralize the effect of 4 turnovers.

    -#2 defense in efficiency in the NFL
    -#2 special teams defense in defending starting field position.
    -kept Broncos to only 10 points despite a -1 turnover margin in the playoffs
    -goal line stand against the #1 rushing team in the NFL in the playoffs.

    And they still get no respect? Because of the most worst measurement known to men in all of sports, when it comes to ranking anything in football.

    I demand a change dammit! It's gone beyond ridiculous when it comes to criticizing the wrong teams or the wrong players for actually doing a damn good job at what they are SUPPOSED TO DO!
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This team in general and D in particular is like a baby Bill has been carrying for months. I think tonight we saw the birth of an identity. The labor pains sucked at times, but the delivery proves they are worth it.
  17. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven Rookie

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    Not at all. Only blind mediots saw the birth of it tonight. I've been watching it do this all season long. Efficiency stats have had them at #2 all season long. Same for GB. They have been a top 3 defense all season long.

    But unless you have crap special teams and rushing offenses and give away field position, you're not going to be ranked very good in yards.

    That's the deception.

    And NE and GB both have great special teams. They both have great total defense. You know, the real total defense that keeps teams from scoring?

    They are no different than the 49ers or the Steelers in their ability to stop opponents from scoring. The yards they give up is what makes them so effective in the first place.

    The 49ers "give up" 21.1 yards per point. They are #1.
    New England "give up" 19.2 yards per point, #2 in the NFL.
    Pittsburg Steelers "give up" 18.7 yards per point, #3 in the NFL.
    And Green Bay "gives up" 18.3 yards per point , #4 in the NFL.

    But in reality what they are actually doing is forcing offenses to travel 21.1 yards just to earn the equivalent of 1 point. If you want to score 7 points against the 49ers you have to travel 147.7 yards. Well the field is only 100 yards long. So what does this mean? They STOP you. You need on average at least 2 possessions, or two tries to score a touchdown or put up 6 points.

    What makes them good is all of these teams force their opponents into having to travel a lot of yards, or needing a lot of possessions to score a touchdown against them. That's what makes you good. That means they are STOPPING teams before they can score points, especially a TD, which is what a defense is supposed to do.

    The more yards you "give up" compared to the points you allow....the better the defense. The more yards you force an opponents offense to travel, and the more possessions they need against you, for them to score a touchdown, the better you are as a defense.

    Because for every time you stopped them you put your offense on the field. And when you have one of the top most efficient offenses in the NFL it almost becomes unfair. Not only do you force them into traveling alot of yards, but your defense also tends to give your offense better field position.

    It becomes a no contest.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  18. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Agreed. It would have been a negative going into next week's championship game if the Patriot O had to pull out a victory because the D was yet again allowing another team to score early and often. What a confidence booster for our much maligned D to play maybe their best game of the year on the biggest game of the year (even if against a marginal O).

    Of note, the discipline of the defense was very good and, imho, was the difference maker as compared to the first Denver game. For example, I noticed Ninko (among others) playing extremely disciplined against the Denver option and within the pass rush. It neutralized Denver's bread and butter offensive capabilities and forced them to have to move the ball in a way they are not accustomed to. Similarly, if we can also ably execute a defensive game plan that neutralizes Ray Rice and make the Ravens have to move the ball without him, I like our chances.....
  19. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While true, you have to feel much better about the current lineup that's in there now, in regards to defending the pass.

    Having Chung and McCourty as safeties, with Arrington and Moore at corner certainly works in the sub-packages.

    Not only that, but DMcC seems to me like he's been improving in the base at CB in the past couple/few games.

    They have definitely put together some sort of halfway respectable secondary, when you compare it to the earlier ones. In my opinion it's even halfway respectable when compared to the other teams that are left.

    They may not be as good as some teams, but one or more of those teams may likely be eliminated within the next week.

    Moore has been a real find, at least in my opinion; and McCourty has been defending the pass better too. Chung even looks okay in pass defense lately.

    It also should not be overlooked that this unit is giving up about 18 pts a game at Gillette stadium. That is impressive.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  20. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While I would certainly assume that they will limit BAL's offense, I do feel as though it will be hard to totally shut down Ray Rice--if not impossible.

    I would hope for something in the neighborhood of 20-21 pts allowed to the Ravens, and I think that would give us a damn good chance in the AFCCG.

    If we make it past next Sunday, I would obviously prefer to our prolific offense to have to try and figure out a solution to a good defensive team such as SF or even the NYG...as opposed to our mediocre defense having to figure out a solution to the high-powered offense of the GB Packers.

    I'll take the challenge of dealing with solving the good defenses of the league anyday over having to try and stop all of those weapons on the side of the Packers.

    The good news is that the GB Packers have 2 fairly hard challenges ahead of them too, as they will face a pumped up NYG team tomorrow, and then (possibly of course) a very stout defense in the SF 49'ers next Sunday.
  21. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I said it earlier this week and I'll say it again: Our defense is bad, but Tebow just cannot match up well with the two gap. Add to that a powerhouse offense that Denver cannot stop, and you have the beautiful end result that we saw tonight.
  22. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think our defense has gone from what many would call 'bad' early in the season to respectably mediocre or middle of the road now.

    You have to be pleased with the improved pass rush, the current (and much better) secondary that they are fielding, the resilience, the drive and the heart that they have showed at times throughout the yr.

    I certainly recognize the negatives, no doubt. (and to be honest, I would even include the ability to consistently stop the run) But it does seem like the health of the unit has improved dramatically with the return of Fletcher, Spikes, Chung etc. Moore has found a nice niche for himself, and looks like he really belongs.

    Long gone are the days of Tracey White, Guyton and #90 being forced to play LB on the regular, long gone are the days of having to use Sergio Brown at starting safety. Long gone are the first few games of getting torched in man coverage against the pass, using a revolving door at CB in the likes of special teamers etc.

    This current side of the ball is at the very least, average or mediocre, with the ability to play with a lot of heart.

    Certain improvement has been made, no doubt about that.

    That all said, I do agree with you that they are definitely not as good as they appeared tonight against the lowly high-school offense of the Broncos; but they definitely look a lot better and you have to give them credit for righting the ship.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  23. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's certainly easy to say this when you're playing a quarterback who can either drop the ball in his receiver's lap or can't hit the broad side of a barn at any given time. Let's do the same to the Ravens next week and then we'll talk.
  24. deroc5050

    deroc5050 Rookie

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    well they played great today.. I don't care if the denver offense is well below average.. Denvers offense was destroyed by the Pats tonight.. utterly destroyed. They played with emotion.. they seemed like they played with confidence and with a purpose. If they give that kind of effort from here on out.. and Brady plays at a high level like he did tonight. We will be SB champs. But they have to elevate there play from here on out. I feel good about this team.. I think the team really wants to get a SB for Robert, more than ever before.
  25. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Like I said, I certainly agree that their performance will be way overblown by beating the lowly Broncos, but just the personnel difference alone has to make you feel a lot better than you did a while back.

    I don't even think they're all that great vs the run, let alone the pass, but they have improved in the aspect of switching McCourty in subs, adding Moore, and getting Chung, Fletcher, and Spikes back to health. Even if it comes down to having to use Edelman, he at least plays with a lot of heart and knows how to properly tackle.

    Those moves are huge, and they shouldn't be overlooked.

    However, I do admire your sense of cautiousness at the same time.

    I think it's certainly possible to hold Rice and the BAL offense to around 21 pts or so, and that should be good enough.

    I do not think they could hang with Green Bay, but we may not have to worry about that either.
  26. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On top of that, I think the D-line and front 7 have improved too.

    Love, Wilfork, even Deaderick have all been doing pretty well for an 'average' defense. Anderson has been holding his own vs the run (at least better than we thought), and has proved to be a decent pass rusher.

    Ninkovich certainly has been playing with a lot of heart. Even Mayo has been more of a playmaker in the past month. Fletcher brings some good aspects to the unit, no doubt. Spikes has looked good, and even is involved on some bigger type plays.

    I think that when you throw in the improvement of the secondary, that side of the ball has been gelling more and that has proved to be useful.

    You are right, only time will tell.
  27. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The performance of the front 3/front 4 is the point I've hung my hat on with the defense. The Broncos O/L aren't mugs. The Pats abused them.
  28. manxman2601

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    The defense was really special tonight but I do have a caveat. If any offense is built to make the Pats D look good, it's the Broncos. BB practices assignment sound defense and has got the players to match and that was what showed tonight. As fans we look for pass rushers interminably. Would we have had the same defensive impact tonight with a 'pin your ears back' outside rusher and a one gap DT. I'm not so sure.

    And I know this is about defense but I haven't had a chance to check the other threads yet, but what about our offensive line keeping Brady so clean? Elvis Dumerwho?
  29. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think we could hang with Green Bay only because they were the only defense that was worse than our's this year. I don't see how they would stop our TE's just like I don't see how we would stop their WR's. That game would probably shatter the single-game record for points scored. Out of the NFC, I would be far more nervous about the 49ers and the Giants than the Packers.
  30. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Because the Patriots had just played Denver a month ago, the improvement in the defense is quantifiable. In the first game, the Patriots gave up an insane amount of rushing yards in the first half and didn't have a true scoring stop in the first half (2 fumbles by Denver, an end of half possession, and 3 scoring drives). In the second half, while now getting stops, allowed a TD drive in the early fourth quarter to allow Denver within 2 scores. Tebow ended up with 200 yards passing and a 50% completion percentage and the Broncos with 250 yards rushing.
    This time around Denver had 144 yards rushing (they had that much in the first quarter of the first game), half the passing, and besides basically starting a drive in the red zone (due to the Brady interception) they had one trip to the red zone all game (with the Patriots getting a 4 down goal line stand).

    To me this says the Patriots are a better defense than a month ago. I suspect this is due to getting some players healthy (maybe McCourty at S?). However, being better than we were a month ago does not equate to being a "good enough" defense. That remains an open and concerning question.
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