Let's face Reality

[Rob0729]

Re: Lets face Reality

Can we stop with the QB thing? Really?

The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer and they had weeks stretches without an offensive TD. The Redskins won with Doug Williams. Jeff Hostetler got the Giants to a Super Bowl.

The Ravens went 12-4 a few years back with shell of his former self Steve McNair who threw for 16 TDs and 12 INTs. That same year the Bucs won their division with the combination of Chris Simms and Brian Griese and 17 TDs between them. I

n 2004, Roethlisberger only threw for 17 TDs.

In 2005, the Broncos went 13-3 with Jake Plummer only throwing 18 TDs. the Jags went 12-4 with Leftwich throwing for 15 TDs and 6 more from the back ups (Gray and Garrard), the Bears went 11-5 with Kyle Orton getting 9 TDs and 13 INTs with his back ups getting 2 TDs and 2 INTs.

There are plenty examples of teams winning their division or going to the playoffs with some pretty average to bad QB play. I am tired of this constant Cassel bashing. If Cassel can manage the game like he did in the first two games, history has shown the Pats can still win games.

 

[Mclawson]

Re: Lets face Reality

Thank you pal. It seems like the belief among pats fan is BB is really a genius. Listen up fellow patsies, behind the media image/hype/etc, BB is nothing. Genius my a**. BB is a joke and will be expose this season.

Exactly Correct. Belicheat's record without Brady is pathetic. I have been a Patriot's fan way before he arrived and will be long after he is gone. Belicheat embarrassed the entire franchise. Spygate anyone? He is a liar and a cheat.

 

[MrTibbs]

Re: Lets face Reality

Thank you pal. It seems like the belief among pats fan is BB is really a genius. Listen up fellow patsies, behind the media image/hype/etc, BB is nothing. Brady is our guy. Without him, we are nothing. We can't even compete with the friggin Dawfins and what are we only missing? Brady! BB is here. A much better receiving corps is here. An incredibly decent running game and front 7 is in our possession, yet we can't friggin compete with the Dawfins. Genius my a**. BB is a joke and will be expose this season.

Hey you Jets, Colts or Chargers fan.........why don't you get the hell outta here dude. Enough of your crap ok?

 

[PatriotNMP43]

Re: Lets face Reality

Exactly Correct. Belicheat's record without Brady is pathetic. I have been a Patriot's fan way before he arrived and will be long after he is gone. Belicheat embarrassed the entire franchise. Spygate anyone? He is a liar and a cheat.

Idiot, go get a job at espn.

 

[CheerforTom]

Re: Lets face Reality

Exactly Correct. Belicheat's record without Brady is pathetic. I have been a Patriot's fan way before he arrived and will be long after he is gone. Belicheat embarrassed the entire franchise. Spygate anyone? He is a liar and a cheat.

Believe me, the franchise would have been embarrassed anyway if BB had never come here

 

[Gunnails]

Re: Lets face Reality

Exactly Correct. Belicheat's record without Brady is pathetic. I have been a Patriot's fan way before he arrived and will be long after he is gone. Belicheat embarrassed the entire franchise. Spygate anyone? He is a liar and a cheat.

========================================================


Sweet, You will fit right in here!

 

[PATRIOT64]

Maybe if the fu(king team would wear the BLUE jerseys at home they would not have bad luck and BB go grab that hoodie,I don't care if you sweat early in the season.

Week 1 - White Jersey at home - Brady goes or IR,team barely holds on
Week 3 - White Jersey at home - We become the lowly Dolphin's b!tches

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Re: Lets face Reality

Exactly Correct. Belicheat's record without Brady is pathetic. I have been a Patriot's fan way before he arrived and will be long after he is gone. Belicheat embarrassed the entire franchise. Spygate anyone? He is a liar and a cheat.

Hey look, its Menlo's brother. Welcome to the haters club.....oh and GFY!!

 

[Salva135]

Re: Lets face Reality

Can we stop with the QB thing? Really?

The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer and they had weeks stretches without an offensive TD. The Redskins won with Doug Williams. Jeff Hostetler got the Giants to a Super Bowl.

The Ravens went 12-4 a few years back with shell of his former self Steve McNair who threw for 16 TDs and 12 INTs. That same year the Bucs won their division with the combination of Chris Simms and Brian Griese and 17 TDs between them. I

n 2004, Roethlisberger only threw for 17 TDs.

In 2005, the Broncos went 13-3 with Jake Plummer only throwing 18 TDs. the Jags went 12-4 with Leftwich throwing for 15 TDs and 6 more from the back ups (Gray and Garrard), the Bears went 11-5 with Kyle Orton getting 9 TDs and 13 INTs with his back ups getting 2 TDs and 2 INTs.

There are plenty examples of teams winning their division or going to the playoffs with some pretty average to bad QB play. I am tired of this constant Cassel bashing. If Cassel can manage the game like he did in the first two games, history has shown the Pats can still win games.

Please, please, PLEASE stop using the 2000 Ravens as an example of a team that won the SB with a subpar QB. That team's defense was historically great, arguably the best since the '85 Bears. The Patriots' D is not even in the same stratosphere, there is no argument here.

The only team in recent memory that I can think of that went deep in the playoffs were the '06 Bears with Grossman at the helm, and they were also an overwhelmingly dominant defense.

Like it or not, the Patriots have looked decidedly average in beating a very bad Chiefs team and a Jets team that is looking to be in quite a bit of disarray, and looked below-average against a very bad team in the Dolphins.

This team is not extremely different from the team that just went 18-1, particularly the offense. Someone once pointed out (I'm not sure if it were on this board or elsewhere) that Brady going down and giving way to Cassel is about as pure of a controlled experiment as possible in examining the impact of a QB on an NFL team. Through 3 weeks, it looks pretty clear that Brady makes or breaks this team, and we are middle of the pack without him.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Looks that way. Let's hang up the other 13. Screw it. We're 2-1. We're doomed.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Re: Lets face Reality

Please, please, PLEASE stop using the 2000 Ravens as an example of a team that won the SB with a subpar QB. That team's defense was historically great, arguably the best since the '85 Bears. The Patriots' D is not even in the same stratosphere, there is no argument here.

The only team in recent memory that I can think of that went deep in the playoffs were the '06 Bears with Grossman at the helm, and they were also an overwhelmingly dominant defense.

Like it or not, the Patriots have looked decidedly average in beating a very bad Chiefs team and a Jets team that is looking to be in quite a bit of disarray, and looked below-average against a very bad team in the Dolphins.

This team is not extremely different from the team that just went 18-1, particularly the offense. Someone once pointed out (I'm not sure if it were on this board or elsewhere) that Brady going down and giving way to Cassel is about as pure of a controlled experiment as possible in examining the impact of a QB on an NFL team. Through 3 weeks, it looks pretty clear that Brady makes or breaks this team, and we are middle of the pack without him.

damn, the way some of you people talk, i'd swear the season is over. Guys, its only week 4. We have alot of new players on defense, including starters. Give them some time, and I think you'll be seeing a much improved defense.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: Lets face Reality

Ok we aren't nothing without Brady, Belichick is still a great coach. The only thing that people don't seem to factor in is that theres a big difference between having Brady and having say Jake Delhomme or Matt Hasslebeck or some other mediocre QB as opposed to Matt Cassel, Belichick is going to look bad this year because right now we have arguably the worst starting qb in the league. If you want to blame BB for something blame him for not preparing for this situation by bringing in a competent veteran back up.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Lets face Reality

Please, please, PLEASE stop using the 2000 Ravens as an example of a team that won the SB with a subpar QB. That team's defense was historically great, arguably the best since the '85 Bears. The Patriots' D is not even in the same stratosphere, there is no argument here.

The only team in recent memory that I can think of that went deep in the playoffs were the '06 Bears with Grossman at the helm, and they were also an overwhelmingly dominant defense.

Like it or not, the Patriots have looked decidedly average in beating a very bad Chiefs team and a Jets team that is looking to be in quite a bit of disarray, and looked below-average against a very bad team in the Dolphins.

This team is not extremely different from the team that just went 18-1, particularly the offense. Someone once pointed out (I'm not sure if it were on this board or elsewhere) that Brady going down and giving way to Cassel is about as pure of a controlled experiment as possible in examining the impact of a QB on an NFL team. Through 3 weeks, it looks pretty clear that Brady makes or breaks this team, and we are middle of the pack without him.

First, the Ravens were one of a half dozen examples that I gave of teams went to the playoffs with mediocre to average QB play.

Second, once you get into the playoffs anything can happen. The Colts won the Super Bowl with the history's worst run defense which defide all odds since everyone said that it would be impossible for them to win this way.

Third, the bandwagon exit is this way. We won't miss you at all.

 

[Krugman]

As with most opinon sites,the truth lies somewhere in the middle,the defence was bad,I hate to admit Felger made some good points in the WEEI page,the "single wing "formation plays would probably have fooled most teams,but shouldn't have after they ran it twice.On the other hand,no pressure on the Qb,throws to the middle of the field all day long seem to be unopposed(that reminds me of last year).The Finns,to their credit,worked hard to shut down the short yardage and screen plays we have used well in the past.My problem is that the team could not seem to adjust to either situation,again,as they did in the past.Factor in something else,the Finns were switched on for this one,they played like their entire season hinged on the game,listening to Bruschi and Seymour,they admit the Dolphins were a step up on them the entire game. So yes,I agree with PatsfaninVa,the season is young,lets see what type of adjustments will be made in the next 5-6 weeks before we write this team off.I'm sure the offence will have some plays drawn up to attack the entire field,and I would like them to try,even if it results in the odd INT.Take a chance once in a while,rather than getting killed slowly with a predictable "dink and dunk" type-offence.
I also believe the defense will improve,they have good players,good coaches.Lets revisit this in mid November,then ,if the the team is not playing well,their might be some credence to the criticisms.

 

[Cannon Arm]

Re: Lets face Reality

Sure, I gotta admit BB is looking a little Cleveland lately but...
If you're going to attribute the Pats success largely to Brady than you
must also acknowledge BB's role in his development.
Afterall, he was a sixth rounder.

If BB was so smart, he'd have taken Brady in the 5th round.

Where someone gets drafted is not of value. Hell, Willie Parker was undrafted. So was Kurt Warner and Tony Romo. Those guys didn't need a supergenius to coach them up. Brady made himself the greatest of all time.

 

[Cannon Arm]

Re: Lets face Reality

Ok we aren't nothing without Brady, Belichick is still a great coach. The only thing that people don't seem to factor in is that theres a big difference between having Brady and having say Jake Delhomme or Matt Hasslebeck or some other mediocre QB as opposed to Matt Cassel, Belichick is going to look bad this year because right now we have arguably the worst starting qb in the league. If you want to blame BB for something blame him for not preparing for this situation by bringing in a competent veteran back up.

I'm down on Cassel, but Tyler Thigpen is way worse.

 

[Rob0729]

As with most opinon sites,the truth lies somewhere in the middle,the defence was bad,I hate to admit Felger made some good points in the WEEI page,the "single wing "formation plays would probably have fooled most teams,but shouldn't have after they ran it twice.On the other hand,no pressure on the Qb,throws to the middle of the field all day long seem to be unopposed(that reminds me of last year).The Finns,to their credit,worked hard to shut down the short yardage and screen plays we have used well in the past.My problem is that the team could not seem to adjust to either situation,again,as they did in the past.Factor in something else,the Finns were switched on for this one,they played like their entire season hinged on the game,listening to Bruschi and Seymour,they admit the Dolphins were a step up on them the entire game. So yes,I agree with PatsfaninVa,the season is young,lets see what type of adjustments will be made in the next 5-6 weeks before we write this team off.I'm sure the offence will have some plays drawn up to attack the entire field,and I would like them to try,even if it results in the odd INT.Take a chance once in a while,rather than getting killed slowly with a predictable "dink and dunk" type-offence.
I also believe the defense will improve,they have good players,good coaches.Lets revisit this in mid November,then ,if the the team is not playing well,their might be some credence to the criticisms.

I think Belichick and the players explained pretty well why they were tricked by the same trick play formation several times. It was because Dan Henning had multiple options in that formation. Even though they ran plays with the formation of Ronnie Brown in the gun, overloaded side of the line, and Pennington at WR four times on Sunday; they never ran the same play twice. I credit Henning for this now that time has past more so than the Pats getting duped into not figuring out the same trick play four times.

That said, I do agree that the defense was not agressive enough on Sunday and they lost the war in the trenches. I still see that as more of an aberation than the norm though.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Lets face Reality

Exactly Correct. Belicheat's record without Brady is pathetic. I have been a Patriot's fan way before he arrived and will be long after he is gone. Belicheat embarrassed the entire franchise. Spygate anyone? He is a liar and a cheat.

Love this stuff from someone (a Jets fan) who just registered

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Lets face Reality

Please, please, PLEASE stop using the 2000 Ravens as an example of a team that won the SB with a subpar QB. That team's defense was historically great, arguably the best since the '85 Bears. The Patriots' D is not even in the same stratosphere, there is no argument here.

The only team in recent memory that I can think of that went deep in the playoffs were the '06 Bears with Grossman at the helm, and they were also an overwhelmingly dominant defense.

What was Rthlsbrgr's QB rating when the Squealers WON the SB?

Around 25.

Think about it.

 

[Krugman]

I missed that explanation of the single wing formations by BB,Robo, thanks for that.Not sure I buy into them being fooled by it that often despite that....for a defence that prides itself on being savvy.I do agree that Henning (or whatever the Finns OC name is)had a great game plan,and that it was well executed.