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Let's Discuss Josh's Game Planning

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First, let us be really, really clear. Josh does not hire players. He makes recommendations on players he knows (Salas, Lloyd).

    USING THE ROOKIES
    I think that Josh took a major risk with the rookies, especially in Game 2. He treated the rookies as if they were ready for prime time. They were NOT. So, the game plan for Game 3 included a much different approach. The rookies are now being brought along much more slowly. There was no hurry up. The patterns did not emphasize the rookies reading defenses, changing their patterns, and then changing again depending on whether Brady was in trouble.

    Brady took the burden upon himself. Brady had to hold the ball longer. Brady had to absorb all the extra hits, because of the reduced options.

    Josh and Brady used the rookies over and over again. Te first two games were trials of fire.

    I think that Josh did what he had to with the rookies. Hopefully, they can absorb more of the offense in each additional week.

    THE TIGHT END SITUATION
    Josh did the best he could with the little provided by the Front Office. He moved Solder over to tight end for lots of reps in the first two games. Hooman was the #1 TE. He even sent out Hooman for a couple of passes. And he didn't used Sudfeld much; he clearly isn't ready. Josh understands that the #1 TE cannot also play fullback, so Hooman was excused from that role.

    THE RUNNING GAME AND THE RUNNING BACKS
    As far as I can see, our running backs are doing very, very well. One would not imagine this, given that the teams we played had reasonable run defenses and our passing game was extremely limited.

    Josh has used whoever was healthy. The use oif Blount has been especially good. He has chewed up lots of time and absorbed lots of hits, all reps that Ridley didn't have to take. Develin has been used at fullback instead of Hooman, a correct decision IMHO.

    THE OFFENSIVE LINE
    Dante has done what he needed to do to deal with Solder playing TE, and with losing Vollmer for part of the game. More importantly, the Game 3 blocking schemes needed to be changed to recognize the fact that Brady would need to hold the ball much more.

    QUARTERBACK
    Yes, Josh (our quarterback coach) has to deal with Tom's frustration regarding personnel and their development status. I trust that the Game 3 game plan was a short-term solution to the elephant in the room (need for the rookies to internalize more of the offense).

    BOTTOM LINE
    I guess I can't have asked for much more from Josh. I suppose I cannot fault the unfulfilled hope reflected in the Game 2 game plan. Obviously, the rookies frustrated everyone (clearly Brady was most vocal).

    We have may unknowns as we continue through the season to the playoff run. IMHO, one of the "knowns" will be the high quality of Josh and the quality of the game planning by Josh and Brady.
  2. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    The third and long playcalling has been loltastic this year. As for the lemonade with lemons credit he's going to get i'll defer to crediting Brady on that.
  3. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I'm tired of pass plays on third-and-2. This team needs to develop a more hard-nosed mentality running the damn football.
  4. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    this is wrong and you should feel bad for saying it
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Are you drunk again?
  6. BelizePats

    BelizePats Rookie

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    A big THANK YOU for reading my mind and making me laugh out loud!!!
  7. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    He's had a big say in personnel going back to Maroney 1st round in 2006. Had a big say in Denver and St Louis for personnel.

    The past two years are his guys:

    Greg Salas
    Tim Tebow
    Brandon Lloyd
    Danny Amendola
    Michael Hoomanawanui
    Kenbrell Thompson
    Aaron Dobson
    Josh Boyce
    Zach Sudfeld
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    At any distance greater than guaranteed-quarterback-sneak, a run-pass balance is needed. But once you're investing in keeping defenses honest, they get to choose whether you make the run or pass choice.
  9. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Re: Re: Let's Discuss Josh's Game Planning

    Salas, tebow, and Lloyd, absolutely jm's call. Hooman and the rookies? Seriously? How many scouts were making comments on all these guys? Like the FO knew AH was going to be involved in a murder case and Gronk was going to need the procedures he did. I have my questions with Josh, and Blount I'll give you (he has looked absolutely awful given his size. That mentioned, wtf is he doing on KR?). Tebow was a FO PR move, as we all knew he isn't an NFL QB.

    HOOman I'm not a fan of. The rest of the rookies, in high on Dobson but love the competion KT brings. I hope to see Boyce get it together. If Gronk gets back anywhere near last season form, sudfield will produce. As will the kids. Assuming no major blows to the OL, the running game will produce. And o yeah, amendola is coming back, Edelman isn't hurt (yet), and we get vereen back late. Why is the sky falling?
  10. Brady6

    Brady6 On the Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    I have a real hard time saying that the front office did not provide enough. Entering organized team activities in May we had the following:

    • Gronkowski the best tight end in the NFL
    • Hernandez a top 5 tight end in the NFL
    • Amendola a top 5 slot wide receiver in the NFL
    • Dobson a top 5 wide receiver prospect in the 2013 NFL draft
    • Boyce one of the most fastest most explosive wide receivers in the 2013 NFL draft
    • Ridley, Vereen, Blount and Bolden making up one of the best groups of young and talented running backs in the NFL
    • Ballard a player who was a breakout performer prior to his knee injury in the 2011 super bowl
    • Edelman and Jones as quality depth wide receivers capable of playing multiple positions
    • Thompkins, Moe and Sudfeld as 3 of the best UDFA in 2013

    In addition to that they attempted to sign Sanders but their offer was matched. This team had plenty of weapons unfortunately some really bad situations occurred and it has really hurt this team offensively.

    Also the use of Blount has been one of the worst things we’ve done in my opinion, he had one good drive playing against and exhausted, defeated and injured Tampa defense, Ridley or Bolden would of chewed that group up with relative ease and got us into the end zone.
  11. BradyToAmendola

    BradyToAmendola Rookie

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    It's a pretty sad state that we are in when people are shocked that THAT hit DIDN'T draw a 15 yard penalty. I mean... what is the safety supposed to do?
  12. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    It's nearly impossible to truly assess McDaniels, aside from the fact that he's done pretty well with what he has to work with.

    Going 3-0 without a viable TE option and with limited healthy bodies is worthy of a toast at the very least!

    :eat3:
  13. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    This reads like you're reciting Football 101 to yourself.
  14. Froob

    Froob Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    Not trying to rag on people but, it seems like most fans think OC is a much easier job than it actually is. Seems like almost every fanbase thinks they have the worse OC in the league.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As I indicated at the time, there was lot of counting on rookies. In addition, there was much to see before buying in on the veteran wide receivers. I will look at the situation at then end od May. I would note that the what the Front Office provided did NOT end in May. The Front Office made decisions in June, July, August and September that affected the team we now have. Some of these decisions involve actions take, some involve actions not taken.
    ===========================================

    SOME NITPICKS WITH REGARD TO WHERE WE WERE AT THE END OF MAY
    1) There was little depth at OG, almost no competition for Greene who didn't make it. That remains an issue.
    2) We were clearly counting on rookies to succeed at WR. The fact that this hasn't worked for the patriots in a decade didn't give many hope for success. To point out that the Front Office counted on Jones only points out the deficiency in personnel. I have always been fine with Edelman as a Game Day backup.
    3) The situation at TE was somewhat an illusion. We were given to expect that we were likely to keep four TE's, given our 2 TE orientation. And we certainly fine in choosing among Feels, ballard, Hooman and Sudfeld. Little did we know that both Ballard and Fells were truly long shots. We were left with Hooman, who every one agreed should have been upgraded.
    4) Counting on the half-hearted offer to Sanders is simply silly.. How many players switched teams this year or last? So, I think that the team is smarter than to have counted on Sanders.

    JUNE, JULY, AUGUST
    5) Well, the Hernandez debacle happened. I guess we should have all understood that the team would change its orientation and give up on the 2 TE set. That perspective would have helped me some. Still, most expected Gronk to be out for at least a few weeks. How can it have been a surprise? So, who is that should be held accountable for not acquiring any better than Mulligan and counting on Sudfeld? After all, we are playing a 1 TE set which doesn't require a move TE like Hernandez. Is it really reasonable to go into the season with Hooman and Sudfeld as our only tight ends. Did this situation change since the end of June, other than the waiving of several players who were found wanting?
    6) Personally (a nitpick), I would have kept one additional veteran on the 53 instead of Beauharnais (heck I's sign one tomorrow). Injury insurance is a good thing. Besides, Boyce was never expected to be of much use this year (that is NOT a knock on Boyce).

    BOTTOM LINE
    I think that the team could have done more at TE, OG and WR before and after the end of May.
  16. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I am assuming this to be a break from your OP as McDaniels does not dictate personnel decisions.

    Turning to your post, precisely what veteran OG, TE or WR would you have acquired? Saying the front office could do more within salary constraints is fine, but what more might that have been given the contracts the best available talent ultimately signed for?

    In response to your OP, I believe the current gameplan is driven in large part by a desire to develop the rookies with reps quickly while winning games. The only way to get rookies to NFL game speed is by action in NFL games. Given the outcome, which included lots of mistakes and disconnects in getting them the ball, I am not quick to criticize the OC. If these rookies can contribute this year, and develop some chemistry with Brady, many fans and mediots will be eating crow and proclaiming BB a genius for his vision.
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Blasphemy .... there must be something wrong ... there has to be something wrong. :p

    Where's NEM ... bring back NEM for some objective discussion on McDaniels. :hand:
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that Josh did a great job in Game 3. I would have liked to see this dumbed down offense in Game 2. As you can see from the OP, I certainly believe that Josh is doing a great job with what he has been dealt.

    Yes, discussing personnel is off-topic. I was responding to Brady6's position with regard to how well the Front Office did with regard to securing personnel.

    I'm going to take a strange out with regard to specific personnel. I am not 1/1000the judge of talent that the team is. I just judge the results. We had clear needs for backups at OG, TE and WR. There literally hundreds of free agents, not counting trades. Given our 51 man roster to end camp (and even our current roster), what we must conclude that there were exactly zero WR's, TE's and OG's worth signing who might have made the 53. The front office had 6 months to find such players. Is this conclusion really reasonable?

    Are our backups at WR, TE and OG really so good that no one reasonably available over the past six months would have made the 53?

  19. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Close. I was actually reciting it to you, since you were forgetting or ignoring it.
  20. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, I wasn't. I was making the point that the Patriots consistently have been throwing on third-and-2 to disappointing results, and that I would like to see them run more in that situation. On third-and-3 traditional percentages for success (first down) favor the passing game. On third-and-2, they favor running the ball. Generally speaking.

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