Welcome to PatsFans.com

Let Aliens Vote: Activists

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Feb 20, 2007.

  1. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The end for this country is near.


    LET ALIENS VOTE: ACTIVISTS

    By FRANKIE EDOZIEN
    February 20, 2007 -- Immigrant-rights activists yesterday renewed their push to allow legal noncitizens to vote in the Big Apple.

    A bill that would grant permanent residents and other legal immigrants the right to vote in municipal elections has been stalled in the City Council since last year.

    "More than 50,000 adult noncitizen taxpayers in those two districts are disenfranchised by citizenship voting laws," said Cheryl Wertz, of New Immigrant Community Empowerment, referring to today's special election for council seats in Brooklyn and Staten Island.

    Councilman Charles Barron (D-Brooklyn), the sponsor of the Voting Rights Restoration Act, said that years ago, when immigrants were mostly European, they had voting rights.

    "Then when the complexion of immigrants changes, then all of a sudden, the laws change," he said.

    Ron Hayduk, a CUNY professor, concurred, saying immigrants voted in national elections from 1776 through 1926.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/0220200...e__activists_regionalnews_frankie_edozien.htm
  2. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    They are already allowed to vote in school board elections, and they illegally vote in regular elections.

    I once popped a drug dealer in NYC, he had 13 voter ID cards on him. I asked him how he got them, and he said that the Democrats come to the homeless shelter on election day and drive them around to the different precints and he voted for Dinkins soemthing like 14 times!

    Not only was this man, not a US citizen, he had 14 felony convicitons for selling marijuana.

    In this computer age, how we can not wipe non-citizens and felons from the voter rolls is idiotic.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,494
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -4

    My Jersey:

    NYC and Dinkins ha, ha ,ha oh Jesus do you all remember that friggin a$s hole Dinkins, he was worse than George McGovern, when that whiny screwy sap McGovern was running for President he was in Boston and the Hells Angels wanted to fly their sh!t flag over the State House, Mc Govern said "He didn't see any harm in it"

    Looney Left Wing Liberalism will destroy America

    Osama Bin Laden is in love with Auntie Pelosi.

    :bricks:
  4. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    That's disturbing.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    "Councilman Charles Barron (D-Brooklyn), the sponsor of the Voting Rights Restoration Act, said that years ago, when immigrants were mostly European, they had voting rights."

    That's a pretty good argument.
  6. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Say what? It was 1926. Good arguement? We had segregation once, is that a good arguement? Plus, this clown tried to make it a racist issue by saying that we only prevent voting because latino's come here now. Bullsh!it. In 1926 it was all Europeans coming here. Latino's are all first generation, meaning their mass emigration to this country has been in the last 3 decades. Talk about an asswipe bum this guy is. Race card baiting fool. I hate that crap. Whenever I see the word "disenfranchised" I know it's 90% BS.
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Listen Republihakc, It seems to me that if (and I'm assuming what he says is true) we used to allow European illegals to vote, then why not allow Latino illegals to vote? What's the difference? The reason we don't want Latinos to vote is the same reason that in many states exfelons cannot vote -- the majority are poor and poor people of color tend to vote Democratic. AND YOU KNOW IT!
  8. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Frauders, we used to do it in 1926. Hello? That's when there was a massive invasion of immigrants into this country, and when we changed the laws as they stand now. Do some research before you quickly side with a politician with a (D) next to his name. There was a reason we changed the laws. Hello? We don't want people who are not americans voting and deciding our policy. They have no clue what this country stands for, yet you want to let them decide how actual americans should live. No surprise though, you know how they'd all vote, as does the clown politician in question, so why not let them eh?
  9. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I've listened to Charles Barron speak, you will never convince me that he is not an agenda driven racist.

    So let me see if I underststand his thought process here. Someone breaks in to your house ("country"), and he thinks it's a good idea to allow that individual a say in how your money is spent, up to and including alloting some of that money for himself.

    Hmmm, good deal if you can get away with it.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If we don't give illegals driver's licenses, they will drive illegally. If we don't allow them to pay income tax, they will earn all their money off the books. If we don't allow them to get educated, they will not learn English. One solution is to kick out all the illegals, but if that solution does not happen, we have to deal with the fact that 11 million illegals are here. To Americanize them would at least introduce them to our values and our language. The reality is they are here, and if the right continues to ignore that fact, the right is going to lose. Our American culture is threatened by illegals because we don't do enough to make illegals part of our American culture. For righties, it's a lousy problem -- I understand that. But, assuming that we're not going to kick them out (and that's very apparent, I think), it makes sense to Americanize them.
  11. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You need some real help. There are 20 million illegals in this country. If you hand them all citizenship, you'll get 20 million more red inkers dependent upon the government, and looking for welfare hand outs. Of course, you like that, cuz they'd vote for your buddies like this race baiting politician from NY.
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'm not saying give them all citizenship, but give them a path to citizenship. I would be all for illegals getting citizenship provided they learn to speak English fluently, they study American history and values, perhaps do some community service, and otherwise obey the law. Sure, they'll vote Democratic, but let's face it the right-wing has never succeeded in holding back the tide of change. The right-wing of yesteryear was anti-gay, racist, against equal rights for women, opposed the 40 hour work week, objected to OSHA and the FDA, etc. Do you honestly think you're forever going to deny rights to 20 million people? The best you can hope for is to co-opt them, and the religious right made some real headway in that regard with Latinos.
  13. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    So what about all those people who obeyed the law, and are waiting for their legitimate chance to gain entry into this country?

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.............on the rest of your partisan drivel. Dems and Repubs are many things. The way some of you in here paint dems one way, or repubs the other, is comical. I find it especially funny when it's those who preach tolerance, and criticize stereotyping that do it.

    As for illegals, the sooner they kick them all out the better. We have laws in this country. Respect them. I've been paying for illegals with too much of my own money, while the american middle class suffers.
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Right wing idealism, almost a contradiction in terms if you ask me. You want a perfect solution and something that you regard as perfectly fair. That's nice, but it ain't going to happen. Given R-E-A-L-I-T-Y, shouldn't we try to at least Americanize illegals -- help them learn our language, culture, and laws?

    RW, pay attention. I was talking about right-wing politics, not party politics. Now go back and read what I said in that light. Obviously, at some point the Democrats and Republicans began to switch on roles on civil rights, but right wing is still right wing.

    It's not going to happen. Period. The Democrats don't support it. And the Republicans don't support it. It's a nice idea, maybe, but you need to come up with a realistic approach or you end up with nothing, and at the end of the day, the illegals are still here, chipping away day by day at American culture. I want the illegals to learn English, get driver's license, pay taxes, learn about American history and culture. etc. I also think we need to find a way to close our borders so we have better control of who comes to our country.
  15. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The only reason why Amnesty is going to happen is V-O-T-E-S. Sell-outs, like yourself, make up about 70% of american politicians. We tried Amnesty in the 80's remember. It was supposed to be a one-time deal. Joe Taxpayer got Fukced then, and he's going to get fukced now. See, for people like you, and fony fraud politicians, it's about securing future votes, and not about protecting the life quality of those who are actually americans. Anything to get elected right? Why isn't deportation reality? We don't have to boot them all tomorrow. Seal the border, and then kick their illegal arses out in time. Why should I pity a thief? All those illegals knew full well they were breaking the law when they illegally entered this country. Accountability right? Oh, I forgot, you don't know what that means. Joe Taxpayer gets fukced again.
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,494
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -4

    My Jersey:

    Did they sneak into the country, were they criminals?
  17. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Taken from the excerpt in the first post in this thread:

    "A bill that would grant permanent residents and other legal immigrants the right to vote..."
    [Boldface added by me]

    I thought this thread could use some grounding in reality.

    As a rule I'd say the answer should be no; but I'm not particularly firm about it.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  18. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I say no too. Patters want illegals to vote though. He knows 90% of them would vote Dem, which is why. So much for Dems being for the middle class then eh?
  19. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    And who exactly would make that determination? New York City already PROHIBITS ITS POLICE, HOSPITALS (because NYC owns the hospitals and signs people up for Medicad, you foot the bill for every illegal in NYC, congradulations everyone!!) AND SCHOOLS from contacting DHS, who exactly woudl they know who is "legal"?
  20. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Either the INS has paper work on the 'alien' in question or it doesn't. I don't understand your question.
  21. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    There are famous examples among the Italians, Irish, and Jews, so I assume a certain percentage were criminals.
  22. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,527
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Okay, just had to wade in:

    How can we simultaneously argue that this would "add 20 million red-inkers" to the population, and argue that "they're taking all our jobs"?

    This is the kind of behaviour one exhibits when creating a Jungian "shadow," the projection of whatever negative characteristic one desires onto the target individual and population. Similar to how Jews were (and some places, still are) considered simultaneously responsible for the ills of international capitalism and international communism. We want it to be the fault of Latin American immigrants that there is still some unemployment among the native-born. Then it's not the native-born's fault that he is unemployed. Simultaneously, we want it to be a Latin American's fault if our social services are overtaxed, so they're "red inkers." Presto! It's not the native-born population's fault if our social services are overburdened.

    Wake up, people. We're constantly being sold bills of goods regarding our neighbors based on crude stereotyping.

    Another whine I hear a lot of it "they don't know English and don't even want to learn." You know what? Anyone who says this doesn't know our ESL programs, and doesn't want to learn about it. ESL classes have waiting lists in most major cities. And yet we persist in throwing this one around because we don't like all these people running around with accents.

    Why the hell is citizenship such a lengthy process to begin with? That's your root cause of people wanting immigrants to vote.

    Wait, let me guess. Security. Well, we've had "dirty bombers" from across our notoriously open Canadian border... do you really think a Canadian has as much problem crossing a border in the first place, or becomming a citizen, as a Mexican?

    Just sayin'.

    PFnV
  23. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,494
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -4

    My Jersey:

    This is just like Pant Suit Hillary's big dream of allowing all prisoners in all of America's prisons to Vote, they aren't doing this out of the kindness of their little hearts, they aren't doing this because it is the "good thing" to do, the dirty Scumsucking Rat Bastards are doing it because they know that the great majority of crooks, murderers, pedophile's, illegal aliens and all the rest of the stinking degenerates will vote for the bastard f-cking democrats.

    Crooks, murderers, sex offenders, child killers, dog beaters, scumbags, cowards, flag burners, NAMBLA, gang bangers, junkies, whore's, and "MUSLIM TERRORISTS" LOVE THE DEMOCRATS.

    The Scum Of America And All Of America's Enemy's Around The World Consider Auntie Pelosi And Her Gang Their Friends.
    :bricks:
  24. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The INS does not exist anymore! It was broke up into three sections and melded into Homeland Security.

    The point is that NYC prohibits (via a mayoral edict) all its agencies from contacting Immigration, so they have no way of knowing who is "legal".

    This entire point is moot because it is a deportable offense for a legal resident to vote. Anything the NYC City counsel passes can not surpass the federal law.
  25. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    That's because, for the most part, THEY WERE IN THIS COUNTRY LEGALLY. They got off the boat. They registered with the authorities. They paid taxes. They held jobs. They didn't get housing and welfare checks for them, their illegal spouse, and 8 illegal children.

    Jeez, Louise, how stupid can some people be...?!?
  26. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,494
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -4

    My Jersey:

    Back in those days you couldn't get into this country if you had a cold let alone "sneak in".
    Have you ever heard of Italians "sneaking into America" in 1901. :confused:
  27. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,279
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Sorry, but your wrong on many counts. I live in Chelsea Ma, and the pop here is something like 60+% latino. The MBTA buses that come through the city have Comcast Ads on the side in SPANISH ONLY. I tried to make an appointment at the MGH in Chelsea and the people answering the phone spoke little english. The store signs in the city are in Spanish too. I haven't even gotten into the fiscal aspects of illegal immigration, how it costs the taxpayer, helps corporate america, and hurts the middle class. I've repeated myself so many times I'm tired of it.
  28. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,527
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Here in Northern Virginia we have large population who speak Spanish as a first language as well. Check the enrollment/vacancy rate for ESL classes for Chelsea, then for the Boston metro area. Are people talking to empty classrooms? I doubt it.

    What you've established is that a lot of people speak Spanish as a first language, and that you live in an area that's "something like" 60% Latino, to which I'll stipulate, no knowing Chelsea's population stats. What you haven't established is that there are sufficient resources to address this trend.

    It is one thing to complain; it is quite another to meet a challenge with resources appropriate to that challenge.

    PFnV
  29. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    These people need to know that is NOT due to the "complexion" of the skin; it is due to the history of irresponsibility of masses of people sneaking into the country from down south. Unlike Europeans from the past, these folks are coming in en masse, with no roots and no means of support. Plus, we didn't have so much welfare and other freebies when the European immigrations were at their height.

    BIG DIFFERENCES between now and then, and NOTHING has to do with anybody's skin color. It is outrageous pandering to even suggest that. Highly enflamatory, and totally unnecessary (unless you're a cheap pol trying to get elected by undocumented illegals).


    //


    //
  30. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:



    This was done at a time when there was NO massive welfare, medicare, free hospital care that gets passed onto *paying* patients, massive food stamp programs (with all the fraud that goes with it), etc., etc., etc.


    //

Share This Page