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Length of Congressional Bills Is A Problem for All Americans

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Length of Congressional Bills Is A Problem for All Americans (Including Those Who Claim 'Planet Earth' As Their Residence)

    Tuesday, December 22, 2009
    By Christopher Neefus

    (CNSNews.com) – More than 80 percent of Americans agree that Congress drafts lengthy, complex bills to hide spending on special interests and to prevent constituents from understanding what's in them before a vote is taken, according to a new survey.

    According to a Zogby poll conducted last week, 83.5 percent of respondents agreed at least “somewhat” with the lengthy-bill premise, and 61.2 percent of Americans agreed strongly. Only 14.4 percent disagreed, and just 5.8 percent did so strongly.

    The question Zogby asked was: “Some contend that the reason federal legislation is often thousands of pages long is because provisions to benefit special interests can be more easily buried in long bills, and so citizens cannot decipher the legislative language quickly enough to be able to communicate support or opposition to their Senators or Members of Congress before a vote is taken. Do you strongly agree, somewhat agree, somewhat disagree, or strongly disagree with this opinion?”



    CNSNews.com - Length of Congressional Bills Is A Problem for All Americans (Including Those Who Claim 'Planet Earth' As Their Residence)
     
  2. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    and doctors make Heart surgery extra complicated so people won't do it themselves:rolleyes:
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]


    The $100 Million Health Care Vote?

    November 19, 2009 3:03 PM

    More ABC News' Jonathan Karl reports:

    What does it take to get a wavering senator to vote for health care reform?

    Here’s a case study.

    On page 432 of the Reid bill, there is a section increasing federal Medicaid subsidies for “certain states recovering from a major disaster.”

    The section spends two pages defining which “states” would qualify, saying, among other things, that it would be states that “during the preceding 7 fiscal years” have been declared a “major disaster area.”

    I am told the section applies to exactly one state: Louisiana, the home of moderate Democrat Mary Landrieu, who has been playing hard to get on the health care bill.

    In other words, the bill spends two pages describing would could be written with a single world: Louisiana. (This may also help explain why the bill is long.)

    Senator Harry Reid, who drafted the bill, cannot pass it without the support of Louisiana’s Mary Landrieu.

    How much does it cost? According to the Congressional Budget Office: $100 million.


    The $100 Million Health Care Vote? - The Note
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's pretty retarded, based on the ignorant belief that less is more, which is based on nothing. I wonder if those same people think the Bible is too long? Also, the question asked is an embarrassment, and ironically about the longest single poll question I've ever seen.

    “Some contend that the reason federal legislation is often thousands of pages long is because provisions to benefit special interests can be more easily buried in long bills, and so citizens cannot decipher the legislative language quickly enough to be able to communicate support or opposition to their Senators or Members of Congress before a vote is taken. Do you strongly agree, somewhat agree, somewhat disagree, or strongly disagree with this opinion?”

    That's called push polling. Show me a source that demonstrates that, "Some contend that the reason federal legislation is often thousands of pages long is because provisions to benefit special interests can be more easily buried in long bills." Who has said they believe that? That idea is being planted by the poll.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I believe that I read somewhere that that Canadian Health Bill is 12 pages long.. the length may be justified due to the lack of faith in the subsequent process when the regulatory process interprets them.. see the NCLB legislation... the final product, was not the intent of many.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The bible? :confused:
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    12 pages? Why have 12 pages, when you can have 2,500? :D
     
  8. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Lets make everything nice and simple. Lets not only make it so no law can have any words longer than 3 syllables, can't have more than 250 words total and can never, ever, ever have any confusing Latin terms in them; but also just get rid of Congress altogether and have everyone just vote on everything. Sure, lets have the mouth breather behind the counter at the local 7-11 go home, go online and evaluate matters of grave national interest even though he's not even smart enough to balance his checkbook.

    Why are laws long and complex?

    Go to LAW SCHOOL and find out instead of just assuming that a passing understanding of apartment management or something gives you some great insight into how other, vastly more difficult jobs are done.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This must be more of that pick a side stuff. :rolleyes:

    Hey, SFB, maybe you can't read, but they used a couple of pages to say "Louisiana". Why? So they could hide a couple hundred million of our dollars. Thanks for shopping.
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This seems to be the only part that refers to Louisiana, assuming the reporter is correct that only one state is eligible:

    "In this subsection, the term ‘disaster-recovery FMAP adjustment State’ means a State that is one of the 50 States or the District of Columbia, for which, at any time during the preceding 7 fiscal years, the President has declared a major disaster under section 401 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act and determined as a result of such disaster that every county or parish in the State warrant individual and public assistance or public assistance from the Federal Government under such Act...."

    The rest of it seems to explain what Louisiana will get.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It has more to do with distrust with the subsequent regulatory process, than anythiing else.. leave nothing open to interpretation...,
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    In all seriousness, we should totally outlaw pork-barrell legislation. If congress writes a bill, it MUST pass on it's merits, not the added pork for special interests.

    Let's put this on the next ballot and see all our congressmen & women cry like babies.

    Do you know how much I'd pay to see our congress people cry like that?

    Man, that would be beautiful!!!!!
     
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When the pubbies won the hosue in 94 they tried to put in a line item veto to allow pork to be removed (if the president cares) it was ruled unconstitutional by the courts IIRC.
     
  14. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wouldn't that be the day. I hear what Real World is saying, we need a way to simplify the bills. But as Patters and SD point out, issues are often a little too complicated to sum something up in a 20-page pamphlet. We do need to find a happy medium though of having readable bills that aren't the length of some of these ridiculous things. We also need people to care enough to invest the time in reading them and understanding them. Just because the bill isn't competing on Survivor doesn't mean it's not worth paying attention to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That damned activisit court upholding that damned piece of paper, that is if yrc is true.... interesting composition of the court in 1994 6 of the 9 justices were appointed by Republican Presidents...
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Any chance that if a president were to have that power, that they'd simply veto the crap the "other side" put in?
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I work on commercial & residential leases all the time. I totally understand that putting things in writing require more than a simple yes or no, or a you can, and you can't. I think it goes without saying, that a policy/bill that deals with an issue the magnitude of healthcare, wouldn't be 5 pages long. I don't think anyone expects one to be. However, when you get into the thousands of pages, and a handful are dedicated to saying one word, without saying that one word (Louisiana), for the sole purpose of camoflauging a taxpayer funded purchase of a vote, I think there's a problem.
     
  18. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well that's the thing, nowadays it seems like things are tacked onto bills that aren't in the original spirit of the bill. The parties only do it to get their ideas passed into law. Like adding on stuff onto troop funding bills. I don't have any specific examples but that definitely does happen.

    Thomas Paine warned of it in Common Sense; when the governing body of law makers becomes a class unto itself, it will cease to look after the good of the whole. I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he was getting at. And few could deny that happens now in both parties.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That's exactly what I'm speaking to, and the war supplementals are an excellent example. The democrats, during Bush's term, threatened not to fund the war. The administration, in need of the votes, worked with the dems to screw the american taxpayer. Each party serving it's own interests, while buying votes with pork (taxpayer money), for a politicians district back at home. I think one supplemental was orgininally expected to be about $80 billion, but in the end, was at $120 billion (estimating), cuz of all the pork pols were adding on, to vote yes. GROSS. But hey, there's nothing to see here. All the bills are long, and 50% beyond the needed budget, cuz it's necessary to have millions included in a war supplemental, for peanut farmers.
     

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