League Low In Cash Payroll

[DaBruinz]

Updated my cash number so it now includes everyone who has/was on the Patriots 2014 cap. $96,654,176 is my new total.

Miguel - How can that be correct? Mayo and Sopoaga were over 5M by themselves and you had the Pats at 93M?

 

[Danger Zone]

Isn't that criticism usually leveled at losing teams?

Or as we saw a couple of weeks ago, teams that win but not by enough.. sigh

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fortunately the Patriots are in excellent shape for 2015 as it stands right now to deal with Revis and a number of other players that they will need to try to keep.

There is a correlation to the salary cap and cash spent. If the team is operating under a budget and project substantial signing bonuses/pay-outs/installments in the future, it'll manage it's cash outlays accordingly.

This practice does not mean that they are being cheap. It means that they are fiscally responsible, positioning themselves so that they can meet their financial commitments and ensuring that if someone like a Revis comes available, they can act on it.

 

[Oswlek]

Cash spent in one season is irrelevant without context.
Once again you continue to make up a reason that you think something was done, then question the reason.

Yeah, while this thread contains some factual data, the implied commentary is decidedly off base.

Cash spent is pretty much meaningless. Some years you'll be under the cap, some years you'll be over the cap, but the amount of money you spend is always reflected in your cap in some manner. So, as long as you aren't habitually under the cap by an excessive amount, you can take it for granted that the team spending is reasonably close to maximum levels.

And the current year's cap situation has been explained too many times to count. I suppose a newcomer might be unaware, but a regular should get it by now.

However, we just MIGHT stop our holier than thou attitudes towards other teams that have cap room available and spend at the lower end.

I'm totally confused by this. Who does this?

 

[Miguel]

Miguel - How can that be correct? Mayo and Sopoaga were over 5M by themselves and you had the Pats at 93M?

I do not remember when the last time I updated the number so the 93 million could be including Mayo.

 

[Danger Zone]

Yeah, while this thread contains some factual data, the implied commentary is decidedly off base.

Cash spent is pretty much meaningless. Some years you'll be under the cap, some years you'll be over the cap, but the amount of money you spend is always reflected in your cap in some manner. So, as long as you aren't habitually under the cap by an excessive amount, you can take it for granted that the team spending is reasonably close to maximum levels.

And the current year's cap situation has been explained too many times to count. I suppose a newcomer might be unaware, but a regular should get it by now.

If @Miguel will forgive me for extreme paraphrasing, but he added up the last 4 years of Cap Cash Spent and averaged them out.

Supporting numbers:
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/10586646/new-england-patriots-spent-free-agents-not-wisely

Year --- Cap Cash ----- Spending Cash -- Percentage
2011 ... 120,000,000 ... 130,000,000 ... 108.33%
2012 ... 120,600,000 ... 168,000,000 ... 139.30%
2013 ... 123,000,000 ... 129,656,000 .... 105.41%
2014 ... 133,000,000 .... 95,000,000..... 71.43%
Totals .. 496,600,000 .. 522,656,000 ... 105.25%

So if I am reading this correctly, even with an unusually low 2014 year, the Patriots have spent 105% of the allowed cap as of the last 4 years.

EDIT: And if that 2014 Spending Cash goes up another 2.7 million dollars like Miguel just stated, that 105.25% Spending Cash vs Cap Cash will only increase a percentage point or two.

So how are we cheap when we spend 105% of our Cap Space?

 

[DaBruinz]

I do not remember when the last time I updated the number so the 93 million could be including Mayo.

OK.. Fair enough..
BTW, do your numbers have the per game incentives for Revis and Wendell already figured in?

 

[Miguel]

Updated my cash number so it now includes everyone who has/was on the Patriots 2014 cap. $96,654,176 is my new total.

Correction - $97,654,176 is my new total.

 

[Miguel]

OK.. Fair enough..
BTW, do your numbers have the per game incentives for Revis and Wendell already figured in?

Yes, my numbers include the LTBE 46-man active roster bonuses for those two as well as Browner, Chung, Hooman, Edelman, and Wilfork and Wilfork's reached NLTBE 46-man active roster bonus. My cash number now goes up by $87,500 each week as Wilfork is on the 46-man roster.

 

[Oswlek]

If @Miguel will forgive me for extreme paraphrasing, but he added up every recent years numbers and averaged them out.

So if I am reading this correctly, even with an unusually low 2014 year, the Patriots have spent 105% of the allowed cap as of this year.

EDIT: And if that 2014 Spending Cash goes up another 2.7 million dollars like Miguel just stated, that 105.25% Spending Cash vs Cap Cash will increase a percentage point or two.

Precisely. When you spend 40% over your cap it just takes common sense to realize that spending will need to come down as that amortized cap is recaptured. This kind of single year analysis is like a player *****ing that his salary isn't high enough the year after getting a $30mm signing bonus.

 

[mayoclinic]

Let us be clear. I am simply giving folks the reference to the discussion by Reiss of the different approach taken by the patriots, one that in 2014 put the team at the bottom of both cap AND cash spending.

It's not a discussion by Reiss. It's an article by Kevin Seifert that's largely a fishing expedition written for Brady-Manning week, trying to argue that the Broncos have gone "all in" and that the Pats have spent low. This has been discussed extensively, and Miguel has debunked the "all in" argument. The link that you posted doesn't mention Reiss by name - it's listed as by "ESPNBoston.com". This is basically a play by ESPN to create a story out of a non-story, and you fell for it hook, line and sinker. The OP was more what I would expect from Patradomous.

In 2014, the New England Patriots have CHOSEN to spend less cash and less cap money than almost any other team.

The Patriots deal with their cap situation on a year-by-year basis, and they are generally fiscally prudent while still spending fairly aggressively within their limits. In the uncapped year they took a deliberate approach, as opposed to teams that viewed the lack of a clear cap as a free for all. As Miguel notes, they have generally spent on the high end in the past.

Your OP started out by positing that this was new news: "NOW, we find that ..." (emphasis mine). There's nothing new about this. Miguel has been clear on this all season, and it's been discussed in numerous threads, including recently. We don't know why they chose this approach, though they can only spend to their cap, and their available cap space is not particularly lavish. Dead money, long term incentives, and anticipated extensions or need to roll money into 2015 are all possibilities.

Regardless, the Seifert article tried to paint a dramatically different story of how 2 teams are built, and it just isn't accurate.

 

[Miguel]

Correction - $97,654,176 is my new total.

If Wilfork, Browner, Amendola, Chung, and Hooman are on the 46-man active roster each game the rest of the season you can add $1,203,750 to this.

 

[mgteich]

We won big last week.

So, everyone is more than happy that we have kept so much cap money in reserve.

We've signed Ayers, Casillas and Branch. We've added Wright. All are considered major contributors for now.
=========
We're 6-2. We "obviously" wouldn't have improved a lot if we signed any additional players at the cost of
$2M each against this year's cap.

We'll have this discussion again after we lose a game or two, presuming that such thing could happen.
=========

 

[mgteich]

QUESTION FOR MIGUEL

I have a poor memory. A month or two before the season started, you estimated how much the team needed to start the season (before and after last minute transactions like adding Player 52, Player 53 and signing the Practice Squad). What were those numbers? And what did we start with?

Folks seem to think that I am way off by suggesting that we have spent $4M of so of 2014 cap room and still been within your estimates. Folks seem to be saying that what we kept in reserve was the "norm",

 

[OhExaulted1]

Cheap Bastards! They only give big bucks to jailbirds and overpriced OG's who are no longer with us. If Idzek were in charge here that would never happen.

 

[Oswlek]

We won big last week.

So, everyone is more than happy that we have kept so much cap money in reserve.

I can't help but feel put off by your labeling of those who disagree with you (and have proven demonstrably that your issues don't have much factual backing). "You aren't pissed about NE having extra cap space that is easily explainable by expected NLTBE bonuses like I am. Clearly basking in the light of recent success has reduced your faculties."

 

[Miguel]

http://www.patsfans.com/salary-cap/?p=578 is the latest 2014 salary cap picture. Do not know how many iterations of this I posted this year but it was several.

@mgteich May I suggest following me on twitter at @patscap and bookmarking my blog http://www.patsfans.com/salary-cap/

 

[Miguel]

7 possible reasons for the Patriots to have about 9.5 million in cap space on September 13, 2014 | Patriots Salary Cap lists seven possible reasons for the Patriots cap space.

 

[RayClay]

Why does anyone care about this?

 

[fnordcircle]

Finally, someone brave enough to investigate this team and condemn them for their horrible practices which have lead to unprecedented success and being competitive year in and year out.