League Low In Cash Payroll

[mgteich]

We already understand that he Patriots have more cap money available than almost any team. Now, we find that the Patriots have spent the lowest amount of cash on their 2014 payroll.

Better team-building approach: New England Patriots or Denver Broncos? - espnBoston

We keep on preaching that the Patriots spend as much as anyone else. How exactly does that work THIS YEAR?

We are told that we have a crucial need for cap money to sign contracts with Revis and McCourty, speaking as if the $25M already allocated to Revis won't cover the two new contracts.

 

[Marinlik]

Remember that we have a bunch of NLBTE that will very likely be earned during this season. Some of that will hit the cap next year and the roster bonuses will hit the cap when they are earned, I believe.

But I think @Miguel can explain this much better (and more correct) than me, as I just get this from his blog any way.

Also remember that we traded Mankins right before the season which opened up a bunch of cap space at a time when there really wheren't anyone to sign for that.

 

[Tunescribe]

We already understand that he Patriots have more cap money available than almost any team. Now, we find that the Patriots have spent the lowest amount of cash on their 2014 payroll.

Better team-building approach: New England Patriots or Denver Broncos? - espnBoston

We keep on preaching that the Patriots spend as much as anyone else. How exactly does that work THIS YEAR?

We are told that we have a crucial need for cap money to sign contracts with Revis and McCourty, speaking as if the $25M already allocated to Revis won't cover the two new contracts.

I'd like to see Miguel's take on this before making any assumptions.

 

[Sicilian]

I'm no expert on this by any means, but it would seem to me that if cap figures and actual cash payouts don't always line up, then it's natural to have a year to year flux. Some years you're going to be paying more cash than the cap, other years less. It's not important to always be in the top of yearly spending, but be on par or better with the rest of the league on a rolling basis. Without seeing those numbers, I'm not going get bent out of shape looking at these ones.

 

[Ring 6]

Cash spent in one season is irrelevant without context.
Once again you continue to make up a reason that you think something was done, then question the reason.

 

[Haley]

I'm not sure how they can calculate this properly without knowing conditional bonus amounts.

 

[Miguel]

I have been saying this entire offseason that the Patriots were among the bottom teams in terms of cash spending. I have also been pointing out the Patriots were 2nd in cash spending in 2010 and in 2012. Am pretty sure that NLTBE 46-man active roster bonuses are included in the cash spending but other NLTBE incentives like Vollmer's playing-time incentives are not.

 

[mgteich]

Cash spent in one season is irrelevant without context.
Once again you continue to make up a reason that you think something was done, then question the reason.

Let us be clear. I am simply giving folks the reference to the discussion by Reiss of the different approach taken by the patriots, one that in 2014 put the team at the bottom of both cap AND cash spending.

We have heard many explanations of how we need the money for the future, for incentive that hit next year for the extraordinary number of key free agents, and other reasons. I am merely the messenger.

Year after year, I have heard criticism of teams that are at the bottom of the list, with lost of cap money available and at the bottom of cash spent. Well, now if such criticism is valid, we should look into the mirror.

I am NOT criticizing. Kraft and Belichick believe that this is the best long-term solution for the patriots and their record speaks for itself. However, we just MIGHT stop our holier than thou attitudes towards other teams that have cap room available and spend at the lower end.
============
THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE
In 2014, the New England Patriots have CHOSEN to spend less cash and less cap money than almost any other team.

 

[mgteich]

I'm not sure how they can calculate this properly without knowing conditional bonus amounts.

How can 2014 cash and cap spending not be calculated properly if we ignore bonus amounts that are part of the 2015 cap?

Of course, there is an affect of bonuses, as there is every year. There are some bonuses from 2013 that have hit the 2014 cap. There are some bonuses from 2014 that will hit the 2015 cap. This isn't a new phenomenon.

 

[mgteich]

I have been saying this entire offseason that the Patriots were among the bottom teams in terms of cash spending. I have also been pointing out the Patriots were 2nd in cash spending in 2010 and in 2012. Am pretty sure that NLTBE 46-man active roster bonuses are included in the cash spending but other NLTBE incentives like Vollmer's playing-time incentives are not.

I certainly agree. with all that you say.

With regard to "NLTBE incentives like Vollmer's", aren't there 2013 bonus of this type that are part of the 2014 cap and cash amounts?

What I am getting at is to ask whether the NLTBE bonus situation is different than any other year?

So, is the patriots situation similar to past years?

 

[Haley]

How can 2014 cash and cap spending not be calculated properly if we ignore bonus amounts that are part of the 2015 cap?

Of course, there is an affect of bonuses, as there is every year. There are some bonuses from 2013 that have hit the 2014 cap. There are some bonuses from 2014 that will hit the 2015 cap. This isn't a new phenomenon.

I was referring to the unknown value of 2014 incentive based bonuses. Perhaps my understanding of this is flawed but I was under the impression that they can't know if that money is spent until they know if the incentive is met (I'm assuming 2014 incentives affect 2014 salary). So, how can you know a grand total of how much in payroll the NEP spent until the end of the year when you also know which incentives each individual player met? It may simply be the case that the NEP pay a lot more in incentives than other teams and less in base pay.

 

[DaBruinz]

The amount of CASH spent every year by every team varies. And that is different than the salary cap. This is something you seem to confuse on a regular basis. This was a "down" year in cash spending for the Pats because they shelled out so much to others in the last 2 years.. But let's overlook that because it suits you

BTW, Miguel's page has the Pats at 93M Cash Payroll.. That is without Mayo, Ridley, Sopoaga, the Practice Squadders, and all the workout bonus and roster bonus money paid to players who are no longer with the team.. By my rough calculations, that brings the Pats over $103M in Cash Payroll. It may still be near the bottom, but it's still over $100M..

The Pats have about 8.5M in cap space.. Stop acting like it's 30M like the Bengals and Bucs have had in recent years. They can roll that over to next year and it gives them more flexibility to sign Revis, McCourty, and Browner to good contracts as well as add some players that are needed. Like along the O-line..

 

[ctpatsfan77]

We already understand that he Patriots have more cap money available than almost any team. Now, we find that the Patriots have spent the lowest amount of cash on their 2014 payroll.

Better team-building approach: New England Patriots or Denver Broncos? - espnBoston

We keep on preaching that the Patriots spend as much as anyone else. How exactly does that work THIS YEAR?

As but one example, here's the cash the Pats have paid/will pay Brady during his most recent contract:
2013: $31,000,000
2014: $2,000,000
2015: $7,000,000
2016: $8,000,000
2017: $9,000,000

In other words, of the $57 million he's scheduled to earn, he received the majority of it last year.

Put slightly differently, cash spending in a given year is not a useful measure for critiquing FO performance.

 

[Miguel]

What I am getting at is to ask whether the NLTBE bonus situation is different than any other year?So, is the patriots situation similar to past years?

I have said several times this offseason, especially on my blog - "This is the first time I have seen the Patriots with so much easily attainable NLTBE incentives."

 

[DaBruinz]

Let us be clear. I am simply giving folks the reference to the discussion by Reiss of the different approach taken by the patriots, one that in 2014 put the team at the bottom of both cap AND cash spending.

We have heard many explanations of how we need the money for the future, for incentive that hit next year for the extraordinary number of key free agents, and other reasons. I am merely the messenger.

Year after year, I have heard criticism of teams that are at the bottom of the list, with lost of cap money available and at the bottom of cash spent. Well, now if such criticism is valid, we should look into the mirror.

I am NOT criticizing. Kraft and Belichick believe that this is the best long-term solution for the patriots and their record speaks for itself. However, we just MIGHT stop our holier than thou attitudes towards other teams that have cap room available and spend at the lower end.
============
THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE
In 2014, the New England Patriots have CHOSEN to spend less cash and less cap money than almost any other team.

First off, the article was written by Kevin Seifert, not Mike Reiss. Reiss provided snippets of Seifert's article and you provided and less of Reiss' snippets.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...90/which-is-the-better-team-building-approach

Secondly, the approaches aren't different. It's cyclical. If a team spends a ton of CASH signing players one year (like the Pats in 2012 spending $140M), the next year(s) they won't be able to. That is the flaw in the article. It clearly doesn't understand that. And Reiss' looking at a 1 year snippet is even worse..

Also, as I mentioned, the going by Miguel's page, the Pats have a Cash Payroll amount closer to $103M than 98M..

You seem to be under the impression that Cash Payroll Spent is the same thing as Salary Cap dollars. It's not. They are different. Cash Payroll Spent is the actual money paid out to players in the form of Salary, Roster Bonuses, Workout Bonuses, and Incentives paid out in the course of a year. This includes ALL players who started with the team since the beginning of the league year. Salary Cap Dollars is the mathematical formula that is comprised of the Pro-Rated Salary, Amortized signing bonus, Workout Bonuses, and LTBE Bonus money.

 

[Ring 6]

Let us be clear. I am simply giving folks the reference to the discussion by Reiss of the different approach taken by the patriots, one that in 2014 put the team at the bottom of both cap AND cash spending.

We have heard many explanations of how we need the money for the future, for incentive that hit next year for the extraordinary number of key free agents, and other reasons. I am merely the messenger.

Year after year, I have heard criticism of teams that are at the bottom of the list, with lost of cap money available and at the bottom of cash spent. Well, now if such criticism is valid, we should look into the mirror.

I am NOT criticizing. Kraft and Belichick believe that this is the best long-term solution for the patriots and their record speaks for itself. However, we just MIGHT stop our holier than thou attitudes towards other teams that have cap room available and spend at the lower end.
============
THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE
In 2014, the New England Patriots have CHOSEN to spend less cash and less cap money than almost any other team.

Who the F is 'we'.

 

[patchick]

we just MIGHT stop our holier than thou attitudes towards other teams that have cap room available and spend at the lower end.

Isn't that criticism usually leveled at losing teams?

 

[Ring 6]

How can 2014 cash and cap spending not be calculated properly if we ignore bonus amounts that are part of the 2015 cap?

Of course, there is an affect of bonuses, as there is every year. There are some bonuses from 2013 that have hit the 2014 cap. There are some bonuses from 2014 that will hit the 2015 cap. This isn't a new phenomenon.

It sounds as if you are proposing we ignore the NLTBE that will hit next year rather than apparently have money set aside to cover it.
I guess the Patriots could change their philosophy and go for broke then cut guys they wish they could keep next year and the following year when the costs come home to roost, but I'm glad they don't.
I am content with the cap management system that takes every year into account instead of isolating one out of context and thinking it is in its own vacuum.

 

[Miguel]

The amount of CASH spent every year by every team varies. And that is different than the salary cap. This is something you seem to confuse on a regular basis. This was a "down" year in cash spending for the Pats because they shelled out so much to others in the last 2 years.. But let's overlook that because it suits you

BTW, Miguel's page has the Pats at 93M Cash Payroll.. That is without Mayo, Ridley, Sopoaga, the Practice Squadders, and all the workout bonus and roster bonus money paid to players who are no longer with the team.. By my rough calculations, that brings the Pats over $103M in Cash Payroll. It may still be near the bottom, but it's still over $100M..

The Pats have about 8.5M in cap space.. Stop acting like it's 30M like the Bengals and Bucs have had in recent years. They can roll that over to next year and it gives them more flexibility to sign Revis, McCourty, and Browner to good contracts as well as add some players that are needed. Like along the O-line..

Updated my cash number so it now includes everyone who has/was on the Patriots 2014 cap. $96,654,176 is my new total.

 

[goheels22002]

We already understand that he Patriots have more cap money available than almost any team. Now, we find that the Patriots have spent the lowest amount of cash on their 2014 payroll.

Better team-building approach: New England Patriots or Denver Broncos? - espnBoston

We keep on preaching that the Patriots spend as much as anyone else. How exactly does that work THIS YEAR?

We are told that we have a crucial need for cap money to sign contracts with Revis and McCourty, speaking as if the $25M already allocated to Revis won't cover the two new contracts.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but no team can spend money that is considered "dead money" due to players being released or traded with obligations still assessed in the current league year.

http://patscap.com

If Aaron Freakin' Hernandez were not in jail accused of murdering three people, there would $7.5 million more dollars on the cap. I hate these stories in the media that just look number without taking into consideration the dead money on the cap. Add Sopoaga's $1 million and Logan Mankin's $4.225 million in dead money and you have $13 million in dead money that is not available for other players or to acquire new players.

Fortunately the Patriots are in excellent shape for 2015 as it stands right now to deal with Revis and a number of other players that they will need to try to keep.