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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Welker83, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5834838


    13. Patriots
    Bill Belichick loves to play chess with his hybrid 3-4 defense, but he may be one piece short if one of his veterans gets hurt. Tedy Bruschi became the inspirational story of the decade last season when he returned from a stroke and played well down the stretch. But Bruschi suffered a calf injury late in the year and turned 33 a month ago. Mike Vrabel has done it all for Bill Belichick — he's been a pass rush specialist, an outside linebacker, and inside linebacker, and a tight end — but he is also getting old and has lost some of his initial quickness. Monty Beisel is adequate between the tackles, but he's mistake prone and awful in coverage. Roosevelt Colvin is a top pass rusher who plays like a defensive end. Tully Banta-Cain is Diet Colvin. Chad Brown was recently re-signed, giving the Patriots another veteran defender with a long injury history. There's very little youth here; last year's fifth-round pick Ryan Claridge has already been released, and undrafted rookie Freddie Roach will probably make the team as the only linebacker with less than three years of experience.
     
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting, thanks for the post. I'll take that ranking given the hurdles the defense went through last season.
     
  3. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #18 Jersey

    Or, you know, Mincey, Alexander, and Klecko.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2005
  4. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Gee, the WEAKEST position on the Patriots Defense is listed as #13, if and when we lose a starter to injury... That is above average, #16, and not far from being top ten. I judge the DL to be no worse thann top three; and the secondary to be top half and possibly top ten.

    Collectively that adds up to a Bottom Ten defense???

    I smile at the other post on the board that predicts we have a bottom ten overall Defense. This offesne is shaping up to be dominatand the D will paly fewer minutes and many more with a lead. BB is willing to give up garbage passing yards and hte Defense will. Butas long as it is tough to run against and it will be, this Defense will do very well.
     
  5. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    Lb's are not your weakest position. Linebackers are your worst position in terms of depth behind starters. Weakest part of your defense is the unsettled pass defense that ranked 31st in the league. W/ all the new players (warfield), Returners from injury (C. Scott, Gay, Harrisson, G. Scott) and players switching position (hawkins and Wilson) it has to be the position w/ the most question marks surounding it...
     
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  6. broadwayjoe

    broadwayjoe In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree with that I think the secondary is the weakest link also. From what I have been hearing looks like Warfield is having a tough time. Thanks for the post also.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  7. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I dont worry about the secondary, if we are hit by injuries...ugh thats been the only thing that ruins our secondary. We have a great depth at safety and if Randall Gay comes back you'll have 3 solid young players with Samuel...Hobbs...Gay. And you have Warfield, Scott...Poteat though I dont know all of those 3 make the team. If they change Wilson to CB they have some really nice depth at CB then. And if Sanders does well...make him a starting safety but that is yet to be seen.

    With Harrison returning I dont think its the weakest link at all. Safety looks good, Cornerback is raising a few questions but we'll see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  8. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    When are they going to fire the strength and conditioning coach for the secondary? I have never in all my years seen a secondary that is as injured as the pats over the last few years...
     
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now, now ancient one, I'm not clear on your concept for strength & conditioning...ankles, knees, shoulders, the odd broken arm in the playoffs...these are not necessarily injuries I'd link to conditioning, more like standard combat injuries where the secondary is supposed to support against the run and be solid in coverage. Frustrating for us, however; in Ask Champ Baily, the column felt conditioning wasn't one of New England's issues.
     
  10. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    well glad an opposing team understands our injuries
     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We are homers here. We think Samuel, Hobbs, and Gay are close to probowlers, and if necessary Wilson could be one also.

    Thank you for your on-point analysis.

    Personally, I believe that Scott is a fine corner. I would not be surprised to see Wilson move over, with Gay and Warfield cut. However, the foursome of Scott, Wilson, Hobbs and Samuel should be fine (giving us at least an average secondary and better than our SB secondaries). Also note that Sanders was fine in the nickel last year. We could keep all the safeties which will also help out: Harrison, Hawkins, Sanders, Mitchell, Jones and G. Scott.

    In the end, much depends on the status of the injured ones: Harrison, Gay and Guss Scott.

     
  12. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    lol...Champ Bailey is still smarting from the time he tried to tackle Ronnie(Shoulder)...

    But yeah thats a good point... Secondaries that have corners support the run should expect more injuries...i guess thats why saban values size so much at that position...

    Still...Perhaps BB should get some larger DB's?
     
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a hard trade off, bigger and supposedly more durable vs. smaller, quicker kids who can glue themselves to a receiver's hip - oddly enough we haven't been picking very high in the draft to get a good sniff at the big and studly CBs, so we make due with smaller guys like Central Florida's Asante Samuel who got poor Ricky's attention on one play last year. BB did bring in some older studs of yesteryear to see what they have in the tank for thump and done (Chad Scott, Eric Warfield), but I'm thinking their situational guys at best for us.
     
  14. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    That hit was nothing compared to how assante lit up JEB PUTZIER! Jeb was the receiver of 2 jacked up hits last year...

    Just don't let Warfield drive to camp and he should be OK.
     
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Putzier hit was good, but he also caught Jeb on the chin so it wasn't as dominating a hit as the one he laid on Ricky in my mind - just more visible with Putzier laying on the ground with his eyes crossed.

    Warfield's driving - your very naughty LOL.
     
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    You really don't understand how defenses operate, do you?

    Pass Defense is NOT solely a slam on the defensive backs. Its a slam on the entire defense. Why? Well, you'd know why if you understood how defenses work, so I will explain.

    As a rule, the DBs should only need to be able to cover the WRs for 7-8 seconds. That should be plenty of time for the front 7 to get pressure on the QB. If the front 7 are not getting pressure on the QB inside that 7-8 seconds, then the QB is going to pick apart the defense. And that is what was happening early in the season last year for the Patriots. They had Seymour and Bruschi out. Chad Brown, who'd been b rought in to be a pass-rush specialist behind Willie and Colvin, had to be moved inside when Ted Johnson announced his retirement the day before training camp. Vince Wilfork was also having problems getting pressure on the line and was a non-factor. Add to that, Mike Vrabel missed most, if not all, of training camp with an injury and wasn't able to start working on the inside immediately. This led to the Patriots front 7 not getting pressure on their opponents defense and exposed the holes they had in the secondary. Particularly the lack of a leader back there with Rodney out. That changed after Artrell Hawkins joined the team.

    Anyways, the Patriots defense, as a whole, should be improved with the players they have. It remains to be seen how injuries hit them this year.
     
  17. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Yes, its the strength and conditioning coach's fault that there are catastrophic injuries like the one to Ty Law, Chad Scott, and Rodney Harrison. I didn't realize that strength and conditioning could make a difference when your planted leg is hit from the SIDE. Or a freak injury like a Lis Franc injury occurs. [/sarcasm]

    Listen, its not like the Patriots have been hit with a plethora of hamstring pulls and sprained ankles. The injuries they are getting are of the catastrophic kind it doesn't matter how much stretching you do. How about we just fire you, Welker, instead of the Pats strength and conditioning coach?
     
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Heh DB, cut that 7-8 seconds in half and your there, our Tommy gets the ball out in 3-3.5 seconds on a 7 step drop, and it is very impressive blocking (and coverage) when he has 5 seconds or more to work with. There's a reason draftniks like the 10 yd split for pass rushers ;).
    :rocker:
     
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Box -
    The 7-8 seconds is how long a CB is expected to be able to cover a receiver before the receiver just finally breaks free. Its not necessarily how long it takes the QB to get rid of the ball. The 3-4 seconds is what it should take the front 7 to get to the QB on a good pass rush. If the pass rush isn't good, the 7-8 is the extra time that CBs are supposed to be buying the front 7 to get to the QB.

    I do understand what you are saying about the 10 yard split. But I also understand that the 10 yard split is run without pads and on an open field, not against blockers.

    The O-line is expected to be able to hold their blocks for 5-6 seconds. Enough time for the QB to be able to find his receiver and throw the pass.

    Anyways, the gist is the same. Everything is tied together. You can't knock the Patriots defensive backs as the SOLE reason for the dismal pass defense last year. The dismal pass defense came, primarly, from the Pats not having a good pass rush the 1st half of the season (read: Reason for Willie not being with the Pats anymore) and all the injuries they suffered in the secondary. Not having a leader back there until Artrell Hawkins showed up didn't help matters.

    For the Patriots sake, I hope that either Sanders steps up and can be a leader in the secondary, taking over the play-calling from Harrison in time, or they can add someone in the next year who can take over the play-calling, whether its through the draft or through free agency.
     
  20. RoughingthePasser

    RoughingthePasser Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Think of our defense as a WHOLE.
     

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