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LB worries...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patsox23, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Bearing in mind, that I know it's only August 2, and that I am as far from the "chicken little" crowd as anyone here, I will say this...

    The Patriots LB situation grows more dire by the day.

    Claridge - cut

    Banta-Cain - apparently just not good enough, possible cut

    Beisel - better than last year, but nowhere in sight the last couple days. Working his ass off, but tackling technique remains a question

    Vrabel & Colvin - terrific, hope to hell they stay healthy

    Bruschi - likely out with a wrist injury for awhile

    Barry Gardner - Eh. JAG

    Chad Brown - could be okay as a sub pass-rushing OLB

    Woods, Mincey, Roach - rookies, won't do much for at LEAST a year


    BOTTOM LINE: I remain convinced that the biggest loss of the off-season rhymes neither with Trinitary or Smivens. Willie McGinest needed to be re-upped. Bad move.
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harumph, Tedy gets a cast - Vrabes did it in 2003, Willie did it last year - big woof, as my mommy's Shih Tzu would say.
  3. NEDAL

    NEDAL Rookie

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    I also think letting willie get away was a bad decision. He was a player i was hoping would remain in NE for the rest of his career
  4. belichickaholic

    belichickaholic Rookie

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    I share your concern, but he let Willie go for a reason. He must have confidence in the younger players. I don't know much about Gardner, but he seemed to be working with him a lot this week and today he said some positive things about him. maybe he'll be able to contribute.

    In Bill We Trust!
  5. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    Hope you're right.
    But BB sounding good about someone ... too often has come just before their forced departure.
    I was first fooled by this when he talked up J.J. Stokes a few years ago ... and have noticed it several times since.
  6. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Why are you saying Tully is not good enough and might get cut? Are you basing that on something that is going on in camp, or more on his past inability to get into the defensive rotation?
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am much more concerned with corner, returner and wide receiver that with linebackers. We have Beisel and Gardner as weakside linebackers. Bruschi is the captain, the playcaller. We also have Alexander who may or may not be able to step up (same as Tully). Outside we have Colvin and Vrabel, with Chad Brown and Tully as backups. That is not a major weakness. It may not be a strength (it could be), but it IMHO is not a major weakness. We even have hopes (not much) that one of the kids might make the squad and contribute: Mincey, Roach, Woods.

    And what happens if Bruschi hurt for half a season. Then Vrabel moves to mike and Brown and Tully share the OLB position (with Green much more active on passing downs).

    This is not a terrible situation.

    Alternatively consider what happens if Branch or Harrison or even Wilson doesn't play. These are REAL nightmares. IMHO, we are much more vulnerability in the secondary (nothing new) and at wide receiver (nothing new) than at linebacker where we are at least average (usually we are even stronger).
  8. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Rookie

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    Well...we couldnt pay everybody millions and million and millons of dollars can we?
  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I am basing this solely on reports that I've read and the unanimous appraisal offered up by the guys on PFW radio today. I've heard literally NOTHING good about TBC's performance thus far. But, like I said, it's early so we'll see. But that's what I'm basing my opinion on.
  10. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Trust me, you are NOT as far from "Chicken Little" as anyone here. Read what you wrote above, then get indoors before something lands on your head.

    Sheesh. We kept 10 of 11 defensive starters. What NFL team makes that boast?
  11. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Haven't you heard? We don't need linebackers.:bricks:
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do realize that McGinest is the one who chose to leave, right? The Patriots offered him a contract extension right after the play-offs and he turned it down.

    Why do you say that TBC isn't good enough? The Patriots have two damn good OLBs in Vrabel and Colvin and they are the starters, not TBC. As others have mentioned, Bruschi will wear a cast and play. Its just unlikely that he'll have any interceptions.

    What about Alexander? There is a good chance that he could do something on this team. Be it special teams or more.

    Also, Mincey, Woods, and Roach could make an impact on special teams and add depth. Why are you so down on them? Yes, the likelihood is that they won't do anything, but many people thought that Kaczur wouldn't do anything last year and he ended up starting like 10 or 11 games for the Pats at LT of all positions.
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There was a piece that turned up in my google search that reported Duh Bears brought back all 22 starters (plus those that started first and were injured). You do make a good point, not to mention we could make a killing selling surplus helmets and hard hats on this forum. Time to invent that concrete umbrella for the fashionable portable bunker look. :singing:
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2005
  14. RoughingthePasser

    RoughingthePasser Rookie

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    we all feel that way too....
    he'll always be a pat to us.
  15. RoughingthePasser

    RoughingthePasser Rookie

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    and adam too....

    they love us too-
    wish them luck
    they'll need it:)
  16. Nyjetsin06

    Nyjetsin06 Rookie

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    Linebacker is just a small part of the Pats worries!:D
  17. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    *sniff* *sniff*

    What's that smell? Vaguely familiar. Something green and squishy.... can't quite put my finger on it. Somebody help me out here.
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I know, you mean lack of competition in our division.

    Don't worry, It looks like the Dolphins won't totally suck this year.
  19. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    First of all, I say TBC isn't good enough based on literally every single thing I've read and heard of his TC performance thus far. Hope he turns it around. Secondly, I don't think any of us is ragging on the starters. This is about LB DEPTH, and that's a scary spot for us.
  20. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    With Bruschi and Beisel out, it becomes an area of concern, for sure. But I don't think that keeping Willie was in the cards because he lost a step, he didn't want to switch sides with Colvin, and he wanted more money than we offered. Looking back, we might decide it was a mistake, just like I personally think it was a mistake to release Ty Law. But that ends up being hindsight. At the time, the Pats didn't think they needed Willie, for the money it would cost to sign him.

    I happen to agree that Tully has not impressed anyone as a run stopper or every down player, but I was curious what you knew about him.

    Bottom line is that the Pats need to develop players for the future at LB, and if they have all their D-Linemen healthy, they can run a 4-3 temporarily if the LB depth ends up being more dire than the D-Line depth during the season.

    A lot of our current starting LBs are converted from other positions at college, so we are going to have to pray that they can convert a couple more players quickly, and also get somebody like Gardner up to speed in the two gap system. Drafting high picks at LB might not be a good choice, because they also come out of college playing in a one gap system, and might not convert any easier than Beisel or Chad Brown had to the two gap.

    I didn't take it as lightly as a lot of people around here about the possibility of Bruschi having a broken wrist. The wrist does not heal nearly as easily as a lot of other parts of the body. I had a wrist sprain that lasted like six months, and I always recover quickly from injury, and I don't mind pain. But that injury refused to go away.
  21. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    Um, when the hell did McGinest turn down extension? Didn't Willie WANT to stay? And we didn't keep him.

    Thats's a big reason why I'm not worried like I was last eyar. Can BB help TJ retiring in TC because of concussions? Can he help Bruschi having a stroke? No, he cant. However, he could help not re-signing McGinest. Unless BB has lost his mind, I think he knows how to evaluate his own defensive players.

    The bottomline is this. If BB feels Willie was done, I trust him. Ecspecially over alot of guys hiding behind keyboards. Also, so what, Bruschi has a fractured wrist. It's the start of TC and Vrabel friggin played with a broken arm. Bruschi is no puss, he'll be good to go.
  22. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    You clearly don't understand the potential difference between Bruschi's injury and Vrabel's, but of course, none of us know the extent of the injury.

    A broken bone in the wrist is dehibilitating, while anyone can function with a broken support (secondary) bone in the arm.

    Whole different ball of wax. Bruschi is no puss, and that has nothing to do with the fact that if his wrist really is broken, it will make him unable to take on two gap blocks using the correct technique. He won't be able to bend his wrist, or he will have to keep it permanently bent in a cast. He also will not be capable of making his big play catches which are what seperates him from a lot of other linebackers.

    Hopefully it is not broken. You can function with broken fingers or broken arms because the broken part doesn't need to bend the way a wrist does, and can be held in one position by a cast. A wrist needs to flex.

    But I wouldn't expect somebody hiding behind his computer to understand that, I suppose.
  23. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    Oh, thanks doc.

    I'm just saying it's early TC and this board is running around in flames. I thought it was also fractured as well? A fracture will heal up quicker than a break will.
  24. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I haven't seen every practice this year, but for the ones that I have seen, it's clear to me that on those days that I did see, Gardner is now second team strongside inside LB and Alexander is third team.

    However I saw something very interesting I wanted to share. Maroney was carry the ball and as everybody knows by now, he can ramp it up very quickly. Gardner hit him from the side about 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Maroney did not go down right away, but managed to get an arm on the ground and scrirm forward for 3 more yards.

    A little later on, the Pats ran a similar play only this time Alexander was in there. He hit Maroney at about the same place, only this time Maroney was buried and fell over sideways, no extra yardage. After the play, BB came over to Alexander said something to him, Alexander started using his hands to demonstrate something to BB. BB shook his head no (several atimes) and took Alexander out and put Gardner back in.

    Not sure what that was about, but Alexander did return to the defense a little later on.
  25. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats offered Willie an extension after the end of the season. Willie turned it down because it wasn't enough money. This was well publicized in the weeks following Willie signing with the Browns.

    Actually, Yes, BB can help TJ retiring before training camp and not being prepared to replace him. See, TJ would have been diagnosed with Post Concussion Syndrome at the end of year physicals. Could BB have helped about Bruschi? Nope. But he could have spent money differently to get someone like Ed Hartwell to be in the middle instead of Beisel.

    As for the re-signing of McGinest. The Patriots did try to re-sign him, but McGinest rejected their offer and decided to go the way of free agency.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
  26. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    When did he turn something down? I don't remember that at all. And he can help TJ retiring? No, he can't. Johnson was expected to play that season, period. He retired in August. What could BB possibly do?

    It's funny you bring up Hartwell. What's the one thing we hear about our defense? That it's a nightmare to learn. Vrabel was a non factor for his first two eyars, it took Bruschi time to. Be patient, give Beisel a chance, eh?

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