Welcome to PatsFans.com

Lawyers give final arguments in gay marriage case

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DisgruntledTunaFan, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    SAN FRANCISCO – Lawyers arguing a landmark federal case involving California's same-sex marriage ban made their final arguments Wednesday, with supporters describing matrimony as an institution intended to promote childbearing and opponents saying the U.S. Supreme Court had recognized it as a fundamental right.

    Former U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson delivered the closing argument for the two same-sex couples who sued to overturn voter-approved Proposition 8, claiming it violated their civil rights under the U.S. Constitution.

    He told Chief U.S. Judge Vaughn Walker that tradition or fears of harm to heterosexual unions were legally insufficient grounds to discriminate against gay couples.

    "'We have always done it that way' is a corollary to 'Because I say so.' It's not a reason," Olson said at the start of the five-hour hearing. "You can't have constitutional discrimination in public schools because you have always done it that way."

    read more

    Lawyers give final arguments in gay marriage case - Yahoo! News
     
  2. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    This case is a wonderful win-win scenario for those of us who oppose perversion and deviance. Either we win the case outright or we lose and get to appeal it to the USSC - and of course any ruling they make gets to apply nationwide.

    I honestly hope we lose this round because I would much rather win the next. Similarly, if we win this round, I will guarantee you there is no appeal to the next level. Oh sure, the first thing they'll do is proclaim their desire for an appeal - but they'll back down because it's better to lose one district than the whole country.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,102
    Likes Received:
    126
    Ratings:
    +253 / 3 / -4

    Hey, there's the bigot!

    Another "small government" (but only for what you believe in, of course) righty. Probably think intraracial marriage and marriage across religions are perverse and deviant, too.

    Just a few more years 'til enough of the likes of you die for a majority across the nation to support equal rights.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Typical strawman argument we have seen time and time again. It's the liberal response to everything... Do you want to lower taxes? Racist! Do you want to decrease government spending? Racist! Do you oppose gay marriage? Racist! :rolleyes:
    Well if it happens after I'm dead, then I guess it won't bother me too much. But in the meantime, I won't have to see my beloved country endorse perverse, deviant lifestyles.

    Besides, when the most liberal state in the union votes down gay marriage, I am not sure I would be thumping my chest about how a national majority is just around the corner. Considering America's shifting demographics, I doubt such a majority will ever arrive.
     
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,102
    Likes Received:
    126
    Ratings:
    +253 / 3 / -4

    Sad how fascist righties such as yourself have no sense of what liberty means.

    But, hey, if you equate liberalism with equal rights, go for it.

    Your words speak for themselves. I never said you're a racist (reading comprehension again...) but you're clearly a bigoted homophobe.

    Funny for a guy who was so insistent that Patterson must be an anti- Semite simply because he doesn't unconditionally support Israel.



     
  6. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My reading comprehension is just fine, the problem is you're too gutless to stand by your own statements. Seriously... You look like a fool by accusing me of opposing interracial marriage in one post, then meekly saying "I never called you a racist" in another.

    I mean, at least have the courage of your own convictions. I never pegged you for one of the gutless types who backs down from his own statements, but I guess I overestimated your fortitude. :rofl: :rofl:
     
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,102
    Likes Received:
    126
    Ratings:
    +253 / 3 / -4

    If it weren't for your many misunderstandings in other threads, I'd chalk it up to a matter of tone not coming across online. But the comment was sarcasm, intended to illustrate how ass-backwards your pov is. Of course, there's the equally likely possibility that you are being disingenuous and completely understood what I was saying.

    For the record, though, I'll say it again since you get confused easily. I haven't seen anything here to indicate that you're racist or antisemitic.

    But you clearly are a bigoted homophobe.

    Furthermore, you share a belief with those liberals you so fear -- you want more government. Only difference us that they want govt spending, while you want more government intrusion into peoples lives. Neither of you really care much for individual liberty.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,083
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    Wolfpack has been banned from this thread. The rules of the forum state:

    "No attacks that stereotype all people of a race, ethnicity, religion, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, or who are serving in the US military. For example, if Widgets were a race, it would be against the rules to call all Widgets ugly, selfish, or cheap."

    Calling gays "perverts" and "deviants" obviously violates this rule.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  9. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,878
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I'm not sure of this but the man and his running mate that you likely voted for in the 08 election publicly have stated their belief that marriage is between one man and one woman. Are you as anxious for them to die off too?

    Look it. Like it or not some people have differing views on gay marriage than you do. That does not make them worse you. As a matter of fact, anxiously waiting for the day that” enough of em” die off is just as if not more bigoted and hateful than labeling a lifestyle perverse. Then at the same time you make the leap that the” likes of em” probably think interracial marriage is perverse, which is just a different way of calling ‘em” all racists.

    Let me ask, how is this stereotyping excused from forum rules?
     
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,211
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +667 / 2 / -9

    They don't like to talk about how their President feels about Homosexual Marriage (he said "man/woman") they don't like to talk about who shot down Homosexual Marriage in the first palce in Calif (black community)
    THEY DO THEIR BEST TO IGNORE IT
     
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,102
    Likes Received:
    126
    Ratings:
    +253 / 3 / -4

    I'm not anxious for any particular people to die off. There are otherwise good people who hold bigoted beliefs and wish to deny others their rights. Whether you wish to acknowledge it, those people do tend to skew older and they and their beliefs are dying off. More people will be better off when those people and their antiquated beliefs are gone.

    And, yes, their views are "worse" than mine. Substitute blacks or Jews for homosexuals and tell me whether you want to defend those kinds of views. All opinions are not equal. I want people to have equal rights. Others want to label people deviants and restrict their rights. Defend the latter all you want, but you and they are wrong.
     
  12. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,102
    Likes Received:
    126
    Ratings:
    +253 / 3 / -4

    Harry, as usual, you're in your own world, oblivious to outside views.

    Unlike the right with Bush, plenty of folks on the left have criticized Obama. The only place the left is in lockstep with Obama, as the Republicsns were with Bush, is in your imagination. From what I have seen, that clearly includes the gay community, who to varying degrees are generally unhappy with Obama's progress on DADT and stance on gay marriage.
     
  13. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,878
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Yeah all of em have worse views than you do but it's ok to make the leap that they all are probably a bunch of racists that are against interarcial marriage too. You sound like the bigot who says "I know your kind" Physician, heal thyself.
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,211
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +667 / 2 / -9

    What the hell does Bush have to with it...?

    How many liberals in America have the balls to go before the public and openly call The Black People Of California "Homophobes" they sure as hell would be quick enough to do it to the Tea Party's, coward double standard phony's.

    Any WHITE Christian Right Wing Conservative that opposes Homosexual Marriage is immediately branded as a Bigoted Hateful Homophobe by the left wing, do they have the balls to do it to the President & The Black People, can you picture Cute Perky Katie calling the Black People of California "Homophobes" she'd sooner set herself on fire.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,083
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    Don't you think most of us think those who disagree with us have worse views? I think that's only natural.

    And it's not difficult to make the leap from homophobic to racism. If you look at the history of bigotry, it's reasonable to suppose that many of those who oppose gays also subscribe to long-held views about interracial marriage and blacks. As late as 1978, the Mormons rejected blacks in their Tabernacle. As late as 1999 (if my memory serves me) the people of Alabama voted to uphold wording in their Constitution that banned interracial marriage (even though the law was unenforceable). And even today a large number of conservatives favor the right of businesses to be allowed to discriminate based on race, and it's worth noting that in general those states which are most actively homophobic (e.g., allow discrimination) also have dark histories of racism. But, that does not mean every homophobe is racist, it just means that racists and homophobes often have some common denominators.
     
  16. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,878
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Here's the difference. Homophobic=racism works much of the time and I agree with you there. What I won't agree with is that many anti-gay marriage people are not homophobic just as many anti-affirmative people are not racists. Those are stereotypes and are leaps to label them as such. Also tying true homophobia to true racism together is not even logical in some circumstances. For example it is a fact that many black communities are indeed anti-gay marriage. How do you make the leap to racism there? How do you make that leap with our president? denial of rights are related but in many cases are not homophobic or racist in motivation.

    For the record I think discrimination of gays is wrong and they should have every right afforded to them that straight people have including marriage. At the same time I'm not going to get all full of myself as having better morals or views than people that I don't agree with.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,136
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +533 / 6 / -2

    You've got to love someone who calls another a bigot, only to proclaim their joy at the thought of lots of people they don't agree with, dying.
     
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,102
    Likes Received:
    126
    Ratings:
    +253 / 3 / -4

    except that I didn't make that leap and acknowledged that many otherwise may be good people

    but even if I do make that leap, so what? You seem to be implying that being a bigoted homophobe is ok, as long as you're not also a racist, or antisemite, etc.

    Sorry, it's not ok. It's just as bad.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,083
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    It's a matter of definitions, isn't it? Many conservatives, for instance, define racism so extremely that you only become a racist when you endorse lynching. Saying, I have nothing against gays as long as they aren't allowed to marry, is homophobic. It doesn't mean that point of view is extremist or radical, but it's dangerous to leave the door to bigotry open even an inch, and there's no good reason to tolerance it.

    As far as the black community goes in opposing gay marriage, I think that when you look at homophobic blacks, you'd have to look at the prejudices of their community. Blacks were not typically raised in a society that preached white inferiority, but you might find among homophobic blacks a higher degree of anti-Semitism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry that exist in some black churches.

    In my opinion, the first sentence shows you have better morals than some of those you disagree with.
     
  20. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,878
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    See my above post. I'm saying racism and homophobia is bad. I'm just not agreeing that you can label everyone that because of an anti-gay marriage stance. That is too narrow a view in my opinion....not to mention hateful tone.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>