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Laughing Gas: How To Game the Carbon Markets

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gee looks like ole algore is gonna make big $$$ taking his skim off the carbon credits... to 'solve' a non existant problem:


    http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2008/07/23/laughing-gas-how-to-game-the-carbon-markets/


    This is what we will get from the cap and trade scheme the dems and Rino's in congress are cooking up. And the poor in the third world get no development great!

    Guess how get ot pay?????? :eek:
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    I saw a special on the National Geographic channel last night called "6 Degrees" If the Earth's temp rises just 6 degrees celsius (which is a lot), humanity would be devastated a probably wiped out.

    More importantly, devastation begins long before temps rise 6 degrees. I found the show fascinating.

    I believe we should be doing all we can not to contribute to greenhouse gases even if we are found to have zero impact on global temp rises. Why the hell wait until we have conclusive evidence if this could be our fate?

    We do not need proof to feel compelled to take action now. Besides, it's STILL POLLUTION, so why even debate it. i don't want pollution in my air whether it affects global temperatures or not.

    C'mon folks, this is a "No-Brainer"

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080509-sixdegrees-video-wc.html
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While your great compassion for the third world is noted, it's equally noted that you're against a fundamental aspects of capitalism that results excessive profits through market forces. Do you feel the same way about excessive profits by oil companies? This specific example, like the example of oil company profit, shows there needs to be regulation. Glad you're finally coming around on these issues. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If/when we can use cleaner fuels - great. But "doing all we can not to contribute to greenhouse gases" will be very costly. It's equivalent to, say, taking your car in for an oil change - every day. You can spend a lot of money and likely get nothing out of it in the end.

    I've said it before - feel free to "do all you can". With the polls of those worried about MMGW, way more than half the people should be willing to "doing all we can" and if they actually did it we wouldn't need governmental madates and regulations. So, please, instead of going out this weekend stay home - if you don't then YOU aren't doing all you can.
  5. PatriotsReign

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    Nah BF...I'm talking about the government mandated changes that Bush UNDID. Nice try though. We should and will have minimum mileage & maximum emmissions on automobiles and trucks. We will also have additional regulations on coal burning power plants. And these regulations will be re-instated proactively so that changes will have to happen pronto. I'm so psyched!

    That was a bull sh1t move by Bush to remove those long-standing regulations. I don't agree with your assumption that those who WANT to do something, should do something, while others can just say "Eff that!"

    In a couple of years, neither of us will have any choice...and that is the way it should be. I can't believe you think how much an individual pollutes should be optional...are you serious? I say if no one wants to do their part, regulate the hell out of the country...this sh1t has got to stop.

    Just my OP.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    What's the number the polls say about people concerned about MMGW ? 2/3 or something like that. Well if those people, 2/3 of the country, made changes the supposed problem wouldn't be a problem anymore. Instead they're hypocrites who say they're concerned but don't make a single lifestyle change. Meanwhile I pay $75 a year for smog checks and about $.30 a gallon extra for the special CA mix of gas and I don't even think MMGW exists. Not from cars anyway. So you can sit there and say how we all should do better but you're forcing me to put money into what I consider a farce. I might as well force an antheist to go to church.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cap and trade is a taxing system set up by centralized gov not a function of the 'markets'.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Markets are set up by centralized governments too. As with caps and trade, governments set up an overall framework of laws and infrastructure and the markets take it from there.
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Al Boob Gore has made over $100 million dollars profit for himself running all around the world in polluting private jets and big fancy limo's screaming and bellowing his global warming bullsh!t, hows that for capitalism, f-cking scumbag.

    :bricks:
  10. patsfan13

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    People were trading good and services long before there were governments....;)
  11. patsfan13

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    Specifically which regulations are you talking about and what specific damage did they do?




    As to the NAt Geo show, I saw a show on a Christian network and they said God was mad cause of porn and homosexuality and would destroy the earth if we didn't repent, so we should get congress on it right away.....
    :rolleyes:
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    What the hell are you watching a christian network for?:rolleyes:

    I don't want to go round & round with you on the "what damage did they do?" question. I have stated several times and quite clearly, IT IS POLLUTION. I want to breath cleaner air and I have that right....we all have that right. And we are STUPID if we continue to put poisons in the air that we breath.

    http://media.www.vanderbiltorbis.co...on.Pulls.Out.Of.Kyoto.Agreement-2471361.shtml

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/22/AR2008072202683.html
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  13. patsfan13

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    CO2 ISNOT A POLLUTANT. IT is a trace gas without which there would be no life on this planet. IS water vapor (which provides 95%+ if the greenhouse effect on this planet a pollutant???


    This sort of opinion reflects on the lack of science education among our population in the country.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Do you know anything about pollution? Who's talking about CO2? Do you think all that BLACK smoke coming out of a deisel truck is just CO2?

    Do you think that yellow haze that floats over LA is just CO2?

    Do you think people with breathing problems have to stay indoors due to smog is because of CO2?

    I am not, nor do I want to discuss CO2 effects upon global warming. It's POLLUTION PF13...or do you believe there's no such thing as pollution?

    please.
  15. Rob0729

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    I'm all for weaning off of oil and all fossil fuels and moving towards cleaner energy like nuclear, wind, and water; but I do think the Global Warming Alarmist are just as bad as the people who don't want to even address the issue. I think this whole issue has been politicized and capitalized on both sides of the argument which has really made me skeptical that either side is telling the whole truth. Scientists on both sides of the argument are getting BILLIONS of dollars in grant money by groups who want extremist views slanting whichever way they want to be slanted.

    I do know much of the alarmist views of immediate doom are way off. Scientists are saying that the oceans are actually cooling and will do so for the next 10-20 years due to the effects of La Nina. But does that make man-made Global Warming concerns invalid? Probably not. But it does shed some doubts in my eyes about the doom and gloom scenarios that half this country will be under water in the next 100 years.

    I wish the whole Global Warming issue would stop being a big business political machine (and it just isn't on the anti-global warming side) and there was a real dialog on the issue. Dialog and debate is the key to the scientific method. Because there is so much money and politics in this issue, this lack of dialog is really hurting the effort to get to the real truth. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between the earth is heading to a global warming disaster crowd and the man has absolutely no effect on the environment crowd.
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is real dialog in the scientific community and has been for many years. The theories of global warming actually date back to the 19th century. Though in interim there have always been skeptics -- some don't believe in global warming, some believed in global cooling, and so on -- the consensus has been moving towards the belief that humans are increasingly contributing to global warming. If trend continues at the current rate, there will be serious consequences. Most of the efforts by those who oppose global warming are designed to slow down or level off the trend, recognizing that reversing the trend will take much longer. Politicization was necessary in order to get governments involved, but prior to the Gore's and Inhofe's, scientists were already actively involved in investigating the phenomenon.
  17. Rob0729

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    I'm not saying that climate research and man's affect on it is a new phenomenon. The Global Warming theories are fairly recent though from a large scale perspective. In fact, the general belief in the scientific community in the 1970s was that the world was cooling and heading towards an ice age. I think you are wrong about theories about global warming going back to the 19th century since historical scientific climate didn't exist back then and the trend that most scientists use to argue global warming shows that the climate didn't start to make a significant increase until around 1910.

    As for concensus, if you do more research, there isn't as much as people think. Rarely in an inexact science like climate research are you going to get a concensus. Even in the world of scientist who believe in man-made global warming, there is far from a consensus of what the effect of this global warming will be.

    My point is that in the last decade this issue has become far too politicized and turned into a business. I don't mean government have gotten involved, I mean it has turned into a polarized argument in government like any other hot button issue from the war in Iraq to abortion to health care. Scientists on both sides of the argument get tons of money to argue extremist views. Everyone talks about the oil companies paying scientists to disprove man-made global warming, but you have guys like Richard Branson who is paying $3 billion over 10 years to prove it and find solutions. Some scientists have claimed that they have lost tenure and be stiffled because their views does not agree with what their university wants them to believe. I think when science turns into a business and a political animal, it hinders progress.

    I am in the camp that believes that humans do contribute to global warming at least to a point. What I don't believe in is some of these wild predictions of impending doom if we don't get rid of our SUVs tommorrow. My fear is that no one is really interested in getting to the truth anymore, but rather push their political and financial agendas. I think in the long run, the country and the world will suffer for it.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This is what's wrong with the whole MMGW crowd. This type of logic is scary. Apply it to any issue, and you'll understand what I'm talking about. This is the logic fear mongerers, and doomsdayers, prey on.
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That about sums it up for me too.
  20. patsfan13

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    There are no cap and trade proposals comncerning particulate matter.

    The subject of this thread is cap and trade of CO2 emissions which are alleged to br responsible for climate change. CO2 is colorless and orderless gas which is not particulate matter.


    You really are confused. :rolleyes:

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