Last word on Vinatieri

[dryheat44]

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/gameday/the_case_for_and_against_adam_vinatieri_part_i.php

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/ar...se_for_and_against_adam_vinatieri_part_ii.php

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Very interesting numerics. I am sure that BB & Co. did a similar numerical analysis in assessing Vin's worth to the Pats. Given this year's cap, they probably decided that they could pay a bit more than some teams for the luxury of a known quantity but not THAT much more.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

I like the line, "it appears the Colts were wrong".

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I like the line, "it appears the Colts were wrong".

That line would/will read SO much better in mid-January

 

[JoeSixPat]

Not sure if its the last word or not - but given the fact that we might carry two kickers on the roster, its not as simple as the "case for or against Vinatieri"

If there were concerns about his ability to kick the long FG or for kickoffs (there were), keeping 2 kickers on the roster would have been an option with AV as it is right now

We'd still likely have a rookie kicker to fill the "strong leg" role while giving him a chance to adjust to the NFL without having to face the pressure of a game winning kick

Sure, that scenario would have cost us more salary than we currently have expended for a kicker - but it would just be for one more year and obviously, we have the cap space

 

[Pats67]

Hey, pass the word on Bill's columns - he'll be with us every week this season, usually posted mid-week. Greg Doyle's 'Film Reviews' are also a good new feature we've added. Thanks for reading.

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[BelichickFan]

Not sure if its the last word or not - but given the fact that we might carry two kickers on the roster, its not as simple as the "case for or against Vinatieri"

If there were concerns about his ability to kick the long FG or for kickoffs (there were), keeping 2 kickers on the roster would have been an option with AV as it is right now

We'd still likely have a rookie kicker to fill the "strong leg" role while giving him a chance to adjust to the NFL without having to face the pressure of a game winning kick

Sure, that scenario would have cost us more salary than we currently have expended for a kicker - but it would just be for one more year and obviously, we have the cap space

Is there any evidence, other than fans' opinion, that we might keep two kickers ? I'm not sure Belichick has ever said that.

I actually think that keeping two kickers would have been as viable with Vinatraitor as Gramatica as they clearly didn't trust Vinatraitor to try long kicks. If Gramatica were the short/medium guy, that would be no different than Vinatraitor being the short/medium guy.

I now think that we will keep just Gostkowski and use the extra QB roster spot on a young LB like Woods or Mincey.

 

[PatsMan26]

Clearly Gost is making the team and there is no way that the pats would keep to kickers. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

 

[italian pat patriot]

how many times we said before 'last' for AV ?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Clearly Gost is making the team and there is no way that the pats would keep to kickers. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

I assume you mean "two" kickers and you weren't aware of Coach Belichick's "rediculous" comments yesterday about keeping two kickers?

Or do you actually think that Belichick has lost his mind?

It's still an open compeition for K - while you may have made up your mind I don't think BB has told Gramatica to pack his bags just yet.

 

[TNPatsFan]

I assume you mean "two" kickers and you weren't aware of Coach Belichick's "rediculous" comments yesterday about keeping two kickers?

Are you correcting his spelling? The word "ridiculous" does not have any e's in it. He spelled it correctly.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is a reason these kind of stats don't work in football. Don't always even work in baseball.

Plus, he forgot to factor in that while we may end up carrying two kickers, the Colts now get to carry 1 and pick up not just a few hundred more in salary to spend elsewhere, they pick up a roster spot. Oh, and he's muddling apples and oranges there. Vanderjerk made $1.8 in salary but cost $2.8 on the cap. Adam's salary for 2006 is minimal, although he's pocketing a very nice signing bonus. But in total he's only costing about $1.5M on the Colts 2006 cap.

Part of this guys problem is he's trying to use stats to prove his own pre existing gut instincts. That's never a good approach for a stat man. And statisticians cannot seem to find a method to quantify clutch, therefore they downplay it's significance. That is why you have to take whatever conclusions they come to with a grain of salt. Anecdotal evidence strongly suggest clutch exists - you see it with your very own eyes.

 

[BelichickFan]

There is a reason these kind of stats don't work in football. Don't always even work in baseball.

I think it was Felger who said it isn't how many kicks are missed this year, it's which ones are missed.

As long as Gostkowski is as accurate in the playoffs as Vinatraitor, we're fine. That includes his miss last year in Denver and his two misses in SB 38.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Clearly Gost is making the team and there is no way that the pats would keep to kickers. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

There are teams needing a kicker. They may be eyeing the pickup of the loser of the Marteen and Casper contest as a free cut.

If BB keeps both through the last cut he may be able to extract a draft pick that week, from a team getting desperate, suddenly anxious that the free kicker is no longer available.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Are you correcting his spelling? The word "ridiculous" does not have any e's in it. He spelled it correctly.

I'm not all that concerned about spelling as much as some people.

But the suggestion that Belichick is being "ridiculous or rediculous" for thinking of keeping "two or to" kickers is more the point

Everyone has opinions around here but I got the feeling our strongly opinionated friend wasn't aware that keeping two kickers is not a ridiculous idea - at least as far as the Coach of the Patriots was concerned.

...and his opinion usually counts for a bit more than ours

 

[JoeSixPat]

Is there any evidence, other than fans' opinion, that we might keep two kickers ? I'm not sure Belichick has ever said that.

Yup - yesterday on WEEI -

BB was asked if he'd consider keeping two kickers. He said he absolutely would if he felt it was in the best interest of the team - and that everyone was surprised when he kept 4 QBs on the roster but he still did that and that worked out pretty well.

 

[Pats67]

There is a reason these kind of stats don't work in football. Don't always even work in baseball.

Plus, he forgot to factor in that while we may end up carrying two kickers, the Colts now get to carry 1 and pick up not just a few hundred more in salary to spend elsewhere, they pick up a roster spot. Oh, and he's muddling apples and oranges there. Vanderjerk made $1.8 in salary but cost $2.8 on the cap. Adam's salary for 2006 is minimal, although he's pocketing a very nice signing bonus. But in total he's only costing about $1.5M on the Colts 2006 cap.

Part of this guys problem is he's trying to use stats to prove his own pre existing gut instincts. That's never a good approach for a stat man. And statisticians cannot seem to find a method to quantify clutch, therefore they downplay it's significance. That is why you have to take whatever conclusions they come to with a grain of salt. Anecdotal evidence strongly suggest clutch exists - you see it with your very own eyes.

Mo's not helping our clicks

 

[dryheat44]

Anecdotal evidence strongly suggest clutch exists - you see it with your very own eyes.

I don't think clutch exists.
I think lack of clutch exists.

Some people perform as good in all situations.
Some people can't handle the pressure and choke.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one here who actually thinks that other NFL kickers could make the kicks that Adam did.

 

[TNPatsFan]

Sometimes I think I'm the only one here who actually thinks that other NFL kickers could make the kicks that Adam did.

Bingo! That's what I find so stupid about analysts who claim the Pats are so much weaker now because they lost a kicker. Sure, he made some great kicks in the postseason, but it's not like he's the only kicker in the league who would have made them.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Clearly Gost is making the team and there is no way that the pats would keep to kickers. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

There are teamsneding a kicker. Theymay be eying pickup th loser of tehmarteen and Casper contest as a free cut.

If BB keeps both through the last cut he may be able to extract a draft pick that week from a team suddenly anxious that the free kicker is no longer available.