Larry English vid

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by slash83, Apr 3, 2009.

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  1. slash83

    slash83 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    Pretty awesome English video, I'd be happy with taking him at 23 not sure if he'd last till 34, what do you guys think? Hes probably a better pass rusher they CMJR, not sure whos a better rusher between English and Barwin but I think the safer pick is English since he has more experience playing D and therefore being the better overall prospect as a 34olb for the Pats. I no most of you know more then I do so go ahead and chime in lemme no what you guys think...
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  2. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I'll second that opinion. Barwin is still my preference by far, but English would be a more than acceptable consolation prize.
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I have to say, I am not terribly impressed with the Larry English video. Not that I would put much stock in a highlight film, but all they show is essentially the same thing for 8 minutes - a pass-rushing DE who pins his ears back and goes full throttle at the QB on every play. There's not a single thing in that clip that would suggest that English has the ability to read and react, man the edge, or drop into coverage. I'm not saying he can't do those things, just that the highlights don't suggest it. 3-4 OLB for the Pats is a bit more complex than just being an edge rusher.
  5. Revman

    Revman Practice Squad Player

    I think you have to like the way English gets the corner. He dips the shoulder and has that instinctive burst to the passer. A lttle shorter than Pat's normal standup 3/4 edge rusher, but he shows strength, aggression,and plays with some control. I like the way he showed up against bigger competition at the senior bowl. Showed he can handle the big boys. I would rather see him as 34 pick, compete for a year, and then be more ready to establish himself on the edge. He appears able to shut down the run. We will see what Pat's really think soon enough.
  6. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Nice. He runs too high, but otherwise you can certainly see what intrigued BB. Damn, if he could only run like that for us. But I guess it wouldn't have worked to have made a highlight film showing him dancing up to the line and getting tackled 3 yards in the backfield.

    If you give him some room to run, Maroney's a whole different animal. It's all of that tiptoeing around at the LOS in a pack of defenders that drives me crazy.

    Sigh. Maybe Fred Taylor can teach him a few lessons.
  8. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #24 Jersey

  9. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I agree with Brown's reel being one of the best out there. I would love for him to fall to us.
  10. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

    #37 Jersey

    Looks like Maroney really excelled running off tackle. Good job by his offensive line blowing defenders off the line and good job by Maroney running in space.
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Maroney running in space is a whole different animal. One you give him some room and let him get up to speed, he's awesome. It's running in a crowd at the LOS and hitting a hole that's not 5 yards across where he needs some work.
  12. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

    Nice take on English.
  13. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

    Although I do like Barwin as an athlete and a prospect I can almost guarantee he will not be a 1st Rd pick when it comes down to it. He does have a big motor, he's energetic and he hustles. He also has a good 1st step but he is a one-trick pony with no counter pass rush moves. He is late to react to the ball and his slow football instincts don't allow him to see plays developing, which would be a problem at OLB. I'll give everyone that loves him the fact that he is phenomenal athlete who is loaded w/upside but he is a developmental talent and not 1st Rd grade. He could take a few years to develop.

    As I stated on another thread, Larry English is one of the most debated players in this draft but Mayock compared him to LaMarr Woodley on NFLN because of his ability to leverage the edge and he also said that he is a much better pash rusher at this stage then Woodley was.

    My take is that everyone seems to think that English is not an athlete, well he is a very natural athlete (36-in vertical) just look at the tape. He's also tough and plays through injuries. He has a good 1st step and burst. Motor is always running and he closes really fast no matter what his timed speed reads (we want him to play OLB not RB). He can tug, rip and come under blocks. He can plant charge hard and re-direct. He has very nice take on strength. He is extremely intense and always gives 2nd and 3rd effort. He is very experienced (4-yr starter), productive (2-time MAC MVP, NIU's career sack leader), extremely intelligent, tough, cares about the game and has great character and intangibles (member of NIU Huskie's Leadership Council). He is also athletic enough to drop into coverage. He and Sintim seem to be very underrated but both look like they will be very solid pros to me. I would take either of these guys over Barwin in Rd 1.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'm with you, I think the Patriots would take English or Sintim ahead of Barwin. I also think they'd take the likes of Moreno or Donald Brown over Barwin, also Maualuga and Darius Butler.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I will not post on this board for a month if Barwin, English and Sintim are all available and the Pats pass on Barwin in favor of English or Sintim. I think that would be like taking Curtis Lofton ahead of Jerod Mayo at ILB.
  16. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

    Only in your eyes.

    Why? Please explain the similarities between Mayo and Barwin, besides the fact that they both will play LB in the NFL.
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'll admit I'm overly influenced by Pro Football Weekly but English and Sintim sound like Patriots #1 picks and Barwin doesn't. Barwin is much more raw than the typical Belichick #1; second round is another matter. The only saving grace for Barwin as a possibility is Belichick MAY be willing to play the #1 a little more risky than usual as he has so many picks to play with this year.
  18. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Of course "in my eyes". I made the statement with no expectation that it would be universally endorsed. And I was not comparing Mayo and Barwin as players, I was comparing them as prospects at their relative positions (ILB and OLB) for the Pats 3-4 defense.

    The Pats had a huge need at ILB last year, and really needed a defensive leader to take over the mantle from Tedy Bruschi. Despite a lot of wishing that Patrick Willis had been available a year later or that Maualuga and Laurinaitis had come out, Mayo emerged out of nowhere (from a 2nd round pick at the time he declared for the draft) as really the perfect Pats 3-4 WILB candidate, worthy of a top-10 pick. To quote Patchick (from the day after the draft), "Mayo is a good-sized linebacker with very good athleticism, but it's the mental side of the game that many here feel makes him special. Intelligent, instinctive, team captain, student of the game, filmroom junkie...pairing that with the physical tools makes for the rare package that is a Pats ILB." (see post #18)

    Willis may have had more pure speed and sideline-to-sideline tackling ability but Mayo had better intelligence, instincts and coversage ability. Laurinaitis might have nice coverage ability and intangibles, but Mayo had much better athleticism and upside. Maualuga might have had more size and hitting ability but Mayo had a much more complete package. I think Mayo ended up being the best 3-4 WILB candidate for the Pats to come out this decade. But at the time he was considered a bit of a reach at #10 by many, and many considered Curtis Lofton to be a near comparable player despite a marked difference in athleticism and upside. The past year seems to have validated Mayo as worthy of the #10 pick.

    I think the Pats have a similar need at OLB right now. And, just as Mayo emerged from the shadow of other ILBs last year, Barwin as emerged from relative obscurity. I have documented elsewhere why I think he is the best 3-4 OLB candidate for the Pats since 2005. Just as Mayo combined impressive athleticism and intangibles, Barwin combines off-the-charts athleticism with terrific intangibles (versatility, drive, motor, confidence, intelligence, etc.). Sintim seems much more like a Lofton kind of player to me - a very solid player who will no doubt be a fine pro, but without the athleticism or upside of Barwin, just as Lofton didn't have Mayo's athleticism or intellectual smarts. Hence my analogy.

    Again, I think Barwin is a top 10 talent and would have been a consensus top 10 pick if he had another year of experience on defense. I think we will be lucky if he is available at #23. I think English is a fine DE with nice pass rushing capability but I don't see him as a particularly good fit at OLB. I see Sintim as a nice player with good experience but limited athleticism and upside. I will be shocked in the Pats pass on Barwin for either.

    BTW, remember how many people were desperate for us to get Quintin Groves as our 3-4 OLB last year? He had a lot of experience coming our of Auburn too. Last I saw he hadn't done too much for Jacksonville (13 tackles, 2.5 sacks). And he ran a 4.57 40 at 259 lbs. (though his 3-cone of 7.31 was the same as Mayo's, quite slow for a 3-4 OLB candidate).
  19. bakes781

    bakes781 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    aw but then we wouldn't be able to say told ya so! :p
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Yes you would - if that occurs, I will still read your posts, but I won't be able to reply. Maybe you should all hope the Pats take English or Sintim over Barwin. :D
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