Larry English - Patriot material?

[Box_O_Rocks]

Could English have some inside/outside versatility? Could provide some interior pass rush? Three-down SILB?

I couldn't project English inside right now. Sintim is the only Day One OLB whom I believe could work inside, but like English outside, that's at least a two year transition.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You have him confused with Barwin.

As to the English question: He's no Ware, in time he could be a Vrabel (but VJC doesn't belive in transition time so we'll skip that part)

Find a SINGLE quote where I said that English will step right into this defense and start without needing any transition time. You CANT. So please don't just make up BS that you can't BACK UP. Transition time for any player to the Pats defense depends on the player himself. Some people can step in and start right away - See Seymour, Mayo, Warren, etc. Others need time to get acclimated, see Wilfork's first year, Bruschi, etc. Additionally I've said MANY, MANY times already that if the Pats don't choose to draft an OLB I'd prefer to see them fill that need via free agency where they can plug in a veteran linebacker with experience. And they've done this in the past, see Colvin, AD, Seau, Cox, Phifer etc.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Find a SINGLE quote where I said that English will step right into this defense and start without needing any transition time. You CANT. So please don't just make up BS that you can't BACK UP. Transition time for any player to the Pats defense depends on the player himself. Some people can step in and start right away - See Seymour, Mayo, Warren, etc. Others need time to get acclimated, see Wilfork's first year, Bruschi, etc. Additionally I've said MANY, MANY times already that if the Pats don't choose to draft an OLB I'd prefer to see them fill that need via free agency where they can plug in a veteran linebacker with experience. And they've done this in the past, see Colvin, AD, Seau, Cox, Phifer etc.

Oh dear, you mean I need to go back through those inspiring lectures on how myself and others where mistaken in our position on the time needed to develop an OLB for NE? I will grant that English specifically was never part of our discussions, but I don't believe I am misstating your generic position that a player with English's talent should be able to take significant reps at OLB his rookie year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Oh dear, you mean I need to go back through those inspiring lectures on how myself and others where mistaken in our position on the time needed to develop an OLB for NE? I will grant that English specifically was never part of our discussions, but I don't believe I am misstating your generic position that a player with English's talent should be able to take significant reps at OLB his rookie year.

Transition time varies according to the player. See Mayo. Nobody thought a rookie linebacker could step into this complex Pats defense and start. And thats way the Pats hadn't drafted a linebacker early previously. All of their LB picks had been 5th round or later. There are CLEARLY exceptions to the rule.

And yes you are MISSTATING my position by making a wide sweeping generic statement that has no reference to SPECIFIC players. If the Pats draft a player EARLY they expect him to be able to contribute early. But in fact nobody knows how long it will take a player to adjust not even YOU. If the Patriots had drafted Demarcus Ware, do you really think it would have taken him that long to make an impact? Clearly the talent level and make up of the individual player has a LOT to do with whether they can contribute right away.

And AGAIN unless you missed it the first time, I've said that a veteran OLB through free agency would be preferable if they don't choose to get an OLB via the draft. All it costs is cap space and you get a proven veteran that is much more ready to step in and contribute at the pro level.

STOP MISTAKING the fact that I insisted that the Pats needed a Passrusher badly when you and everybody else said 'oh there are no passrushers in this draft' or 'oh the pats d is fine with an over the hill vrabel plus an unproven Woods/Crable at OLB, who needs passrushers?' with your idea that OLBs need a transition time. ANY college linebacker is a conversion project for the Pats 3-4 whether it be OLB or ILB since we typically take OLB and turn them to ILB and DE and turn them to OLB. I am well aware of that and stated it in the past. What I DID NOT agree with was the idea that we should give up on the idea of acquiring a passrusher just because a conversion process would be needed.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What I DID NOT agree with was the idea that we should give up on the idea of acquiring a passrusher just because a conversion process would be needed.

How curious, and here I thought you were confusing my (and others) position on the overall pass rushing capabilities of the various prospects with a desire for inaction on that front. :confused2:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

1. Sintim
2. Barwin
3. Matthews (tie) - Matthews has a slight early edge because he's played some 3-4, but over time both level out.
3. English (tie)
5. Cushing
6. Maybin

Since compiling the ranking I came up with the other day, it occured to me that there's a way I might more closely set a value on where NE might choose to draft one or more of the Linebackers I've listed as Day One values by using Shawn Crable and Philadelphia MLB Stewart Bradley for a comparison.

-- Connor Barwin is my #1 OLB choice. He moves very well in space and brings added value on Special Teams (4 blocked kicks) and as a TE.
---- NE was planning to use #69 to draft Shawn Crable before San Diego offered them a 2nd rounder in this draft (#47), they eventually used #78 for him. I note that Crable was not used on Special Teams last season and he does not have the versatility of another position.
---- Crable had a total of 16 sacks, 43 TFL, and 9 PBU in four years at Michigan.
---- Barwin had 11 sacks, 15.5 TFL, and 7 PBU in his one year at DE.
---- Crable weighed in at the combine 6'4 7/8" 245.
---- Barwin weighed in at the Senior Bowl 6'3 3/8" 253, he won't need to bulk up much to set the edge in the run game.
---- Comparing their PBU numbers I have to think the slightly shorter Barwin is going to beat Crable's 28" vertical jump and is quicker to diagnose the QB's release and get his hands up - it may be his two years of Big East basketball taught him to front up and defend jump shots well.
---- With this comparison I'm of the mind that Barwin should be valued at least one round earlier than Crable. #69 is the 5th pick in the 3rd round, which basically sets Barwin's value anywhere in the 2nd round and perhaps the latter part of the 1st round.

-- Clint Sintim is my #1 SILB candidate in this draft. He can backstop OLB while developing inside, giving him added value.
---- Stewart Bradley was being targeted by NE in the 3rd round of the 2007 draft, the Pats had #91, he was taken at #87 by Philadelphia and won the starting job at MLB as an injury replacement that year and hasn't given it up.
---- Bradley was my #1 ILB target in that draft, while NE is reaping the benefit of trading that #91 pick to Oakland (it's the #47 pick this year after trading with SD), it sure would have been nice to have had Stewart at ILB these past two seasons.
---- In comparison, I believe his 3-4 OLB experience should put Sintim's value solidly in the second round - which is where I had Bradley back then, and where I think NE would probably assess his value today. Assuming BB/NC also believe Sintim has SILB potential, and his athleticism at the Combine is sufficient, it could also raise him to the latter part of the 1st.

-- Clay Matthews has exposure to the 3-4, like Crable he's a bit on the lighter side and will need to build up. He's a lock for STs and should be able to contribute at least that much as a rookie. Using Crable it appears his comparitive value to NE is no better than the latter part of the second.

-- Brian Cushing has experience playing some 3-4, but IMHO is not best suited for LB in NE. His injury history is a concern too. He also has the shortest arms of any of the potential Day One Linebackers on my list. Draftniks have him with a first round value, but I grade him below Matthews.

-- Larry English has twice the career sack numbers and a third again more TFL than Crable, his 3 career PBU reflect his 6'2" stature in comparison to Crable's 6'5". He's a better pure edge rusher than Crable and did it with more consistency, but did it at a lower level of competition. He was an ILB and FB in high school, so it may be possible to move him back inside, but despite some coverage assignments in zone blitzes, he'll need at least a year, probably two, to transition back inside after playing with his hand in the dirt. I rank him higher than the USC boys and below Barwin and Sintim.

Using Crable and Bradley for comparison, I'm updating my ranking list to read:

1. Barwin
2. Sintim
3. English
4. Matthews
5. Cushing

I was never high on Maybin and have since read one report where he's trying to bulk up enough to be considered a 4-3 DE rather than an OLB - I'll be monitoring him for now.

All subject to change based on Combine/Pro-Day measurables and any other news that comes out in the next two months.

 

[Water Boy]

He's [English] a nice linebacker, he'll provide some youth at the position, but he's not the pass-rushing superstar that we yearn for.

I think he's more Tully Banta-Cain than Mike Vrabel. Personally, I think he's a mid-round guy. I wouldn't take him before the third.

Based on some of his YouTube highlights, I tend to agree with your analysis.

 

[sg14]

Very impressive BOR, it's obvious you put alot of effort into this.

Just imagine the list that the pro's have, it's probably ten times the quantity plus listing of physical attributes. They spend months evaluating hoping to get the right guy, then in an instant someone picks that guy just before you. What a way to make a living.

Surprised at Barwin's height weight, watching the bowl game, I thought he was a tall skinny kid like Crable. ((I like Mathews just for his ability to get to the ball, other than that really haven't seen these LBs, but then again I am going on my casual in game observations))

Again,,Impressive write up,, Thanks

Since compiling the ranking I came up with the other day, it occured to me that there's a way I might more closely set a value on where NE might choose to draft one or more of the Linebackers I've listed as Day One values by using Shawn Crable and Philadelphia MLB Stewart Bradley for a comparison.

-- Connor Barwin is my #1 OLB choice. He moves very well in space and brings added value on Special Teams (4 blocked kicks) and as a TE.
---- NE was planning to use #69 to draft Shawn Crable before San Diego offered them a 2nd rounder in this draft (#47), they eventually used #78 for him. I note that Crable was not used on Special Teams last season and he does not have the versatility of another position.
---- Crable had a total of 16 sacks, 43 TFL, and 9 PBU in four years at Michigan.
---- Barwin had 11 sacks, 15.5 TFL, and 7 PBU in his one year at DE.
---- Crable weighed in at the combine 6'4 7/8" 245.
---- Barwin weighed in at the Senior Bowl 6'3 3/8" 253, he won't need to bulk up much to set the edge in the run game.
---- Comparing their PBU numbers I have to think the slightly shorter Barwin is going to beat Crable's 28" vertical jump and is quicker to diagnose the QB's release and get his hands up - it may be his two years of Big East basketball taught him to front up and defend jump shots well.
---- With this comparison I'm of the mind that Barwin should be valued at least one round earlier than Crable. #69 is the 5th pick in the 3rd round, which basically sets Barwin's value anywhere in the 2nd round and perhaps the latter part of the 1st round.

-- Clint Sintim is my #1 SILB candidate in this draft. He can backstop OLB while developing inside, giving him added value.
---- Stewart Bradley was being targeted by NE in the 3rd round of the 2007 draft, the Pats had #91, he was taken at #87 by Philadelphia and won the starting job at MLB as an injury replacement that year and hasn't given it up.
---- Bradley was my #1 ILB target in that draft, while NE is reaping the benefit of trading that #91 pick to Oakland (it's the #47 pick this year after trading with SD), it sure would have been nice to have had Stewart at ILB these past two seasons.
---- In comparison, I believe his 3-4 OLB experience should put Sintim's value solidly in the second round - which is where I had Bradley back then, and where I think NE would probably assess his value today. Assuming BB/NC also believe Sintim has SILB potential, and his athleticism at the Combine is sufficient, it could also raise him to the latter part of the 1st.

-- Clay Matthews has exposure to the 3-4, like Crable he's a bit on the lighter side and will need to build up. He's a lock for STs and should be able to contribute at least that much as a rookie. Using Crable it appears his comparitive value to NE is no better than the latter part of the second.

-- Brian Cushing has experience playing some 3-4, but IMHO is not best suited for LB in NE. His injury history is a concern too. He also has the shortest arms of any of the potential Day One Linebackers on my list. Draftniks have him with a first round value, but I grade him below Matthews.

-- Larry English has twice the career sack numbers and a third again more TFL than Crable, his 3 career PBU reflect his 6'2" stature in comparison to Crable's 6'5". He's a better pure edge rusher than Crable and did it with more consistency, but did it at a lower level of competition. He was an ILB and FB in high school, so it may be possible to move him back inside, but despite some coverage assignments in zone blitzes, he'll need at least a year, probably two, to transition back inside after playing with his hand in the dirt. I rank him higher than the USC boys and below Barwin and Sintim.

Using Crable and Bradley for comparison, I'm updating my ranking list to read:

1. Barwin
2. Sintim
3. English
4. Matthews
5. Cushing

I was never high on Maybin and have since read one report where he's trying to bulk up enough to be considered a 4-3 DE rather than an OLB - I'll be monitoring him for now.

All subject to change based on Combine/Pro-Day measurables and any other news that comes out in the next two months.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Very impressive BOR, it's obvious you put alot of effort into this.

Just imagine the list that the pro's have, it's probably ten times the quantity plus listing of physical attributes. They spend months evaluating hoping to get the right guy, then in an instant someone picks that guy just before you. What a way to make a living.

Surprised at Barwin's height weight, watching the bowl game, I thought he was a tall skinny kid like Crable. ((I like Mathews just for his ability to get to the ball, other than that really haven't seen these LBs, but then again I am going on my casual in game observations))

Again,,Impressive write up,, Thanks

Thank you sir, just trying to find a way to put a realistic handle on all this. I'm not at all certain NE will draft another LB this year, I like the pool of youngsters on the current roster, though I don't see a clear heir for the inside in this mix and the LB talent in this draft class is so very intriguing.

 

[mayoclinic]

Since compiling the ranking I came up with the other day, it occured to me that there's a way I might more closely set a value on where NE might choose to draft one or more of the Linebackers I've listed as Day One values by using Shawn Crable and Philadelphia MLB Stewart Bradley for a comparison.

-- Connor Barwin is my #1 OLB choice. He moves very well in space and brings added value on Special Teams (4 blocked kicks) and as a TE.
---- NE was planning to use #69 to draft Shawn Crable before San Diego offered them a 2nd rounder in this draft (#47), they eventually used #78 for him. I note that Crable was not used on Special Teams last season and he does not have the versatility of another position.
---- Crable had a total of 16 sacks, 43 TFL, and 9 PBU in four years at Michigan.
---- Barwin had 11 sacks, 15.5 TFL, and 7 PBU in his one year at DE.
---- Crable weighed in at the combine 6'4 7/8" 245.
---- Barwin weighed in at the Senior Bowl 6'3 3/8" 253, he won't need to bulk up much to set the edge in the run game.
---- Comparing their PBU numbers I have to think the slightly shorter Barwin is going to beat Crable's 28" vertical jump and is quicker to diagnose the QB's release and get his hands up - it may be his two years of Big East basketball taught him to front up and defend jump shots well.
---- With this comparison I'm of the mind that Barwin should be valued at least one round earlier than Crable. #69 is the 5th pick in the 3rd round, which basically sets Barwin's value anywhere in the 2nd round and perhaps the latter part of the 1st round.

-- Clint Sintim is my #1 SILB candidate in this draft. He can backstop OLB while developing inside, giving him added value.
---- Stewart Bradley was being targeted by NE in the 3rd round of the 2007 draft, the Pats had #91, he was taken at #87 by Philadelphia and won the starting job at MLB as an injury replacement that year and hasn't given it up.
---- Bradley was my #1 ILB target in that draft, while NE is reaping the benefit of trading that #91 pick to Oakland (it's the #47 pick this year after trading with SD), it sure would have been nice to have had Stewart at ILB these past two seasons.
---- In comparison, I believe his 3-4 OLB experience should put Sintim's value solidly in the second round - which is where I had Bradley back then, and where I think NE would probably assess his value today. Assuming BB/NC also believe Sintim has SILB potential, and his athleticism at the Combine is sufficient, it could also raise him to the latter part of the 1st.

-- Clay Matthews has exposure to the 3-4, like Crable he's a bit on the lighter side and will need to build up. He's a lock for STs and should be able to contribute at least that much as a rookie. Using Crable it appears his comparitive value to NE is no better than the latter part of the second.

-- Brian Cushing has experience playing some 3-4, but IMHO is not best suited for LB in NE. His injury history is a concern too. He also has the shortest arms of any of the potential Day One Linebackers on my list. Draftniks have him with a first round value, but I grade him below Matthews.

-- Larry English has twice the career sack numbers and a third again more TFL than Crable, his 3 career PBU reflect his 6'2" stature in comparison to Crable's 6'5". He's a better pure edge rusher than Crable and did it with more consistency, but did it at a lower level of competition. He was an ILB and FB in high school, so it may be possible to move him back inside, but despite some coverage assignments in zone blitzes, he'll need at least a year, probably two, to transition back inside after playing with his hand in the dirt. I rank him higher than the USC boys and below Barwin and Sintim.

Using Crable and Bradley for comparison, I'm updating my ranking list to read:

1. Barwin
2. Sintim
3. English
4. Matthews
5. Cushing

I was never high on Maybin and have since read one report where he's trying to bulk up enough to be considered a 4-3 DE rather than an OLB - I'll be monitoring him for now.

All subject to change based on Combine/Pro-Day measurables and any other news that comes out in the next two months.

A lot of people have suggested that Matthews would likely move inside to SILB in the 3-4. You don't seem to agree with that. Would you please clarify your reasoning on this? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just interested in your analysis.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A lot of people have suggested that Matthews would likely move inside to SILB in the 3-4. You don't seem to agree with that. Would you please clarify your reasoning on this? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just interested in your analysis.

Matthews has actually played more DE than OLB from what I've read, and in a reserve/STs role at that. I can't project him inside yet, in the same way I'm not projecting Barwin inside, I need to see them developing a bit more against the run and dealing with OL. At the moment I can project English inside better than these two, which is not to say they can't do it, but I believe Barwin and Matthews to be two of the rawer prospects with a bright upside and I'd rather they develop at OLB before trying them inside.

I'd be interested in Cody Brown in the third if you are looking for another SILB candidate besides Sintim or English... There are also others in the mid-to-late rounds to consider.

 

[bakes781]

Watched the Senior Bowl again on the dvr over the weekend and this kid really stook out for me.

 

[mayoclinic]

Matthews has actually played more DE than OLB from what I've read, and in a reserve/STs role at that. I can't project him inside yet, in the same way I'm not projecting Barwin inside, I need to see them developing a bit more against the run and dealing with OL. At the moment I can project English inside better than these two, which is not to say they can't do it, but I believe Barwin and Matthews to be two of the rawer prospects with a bright upside and I'd rather they develop at OLB before trying them inside.

I'd be interested in Cody Brown in the third if you are looking for another SILB candidate besides Sintim or English... There are also others in the mid-to-late rounds to consider.

Thanks for the insights. I guess I'm not sure I understand the logic of trying to develop someone at OLB for a few years if the plan is to move them inside. I tend to look more at ability to take on and shed blockers, lateral mobility, and inside penetration more than how good someone is at the edge, but I don't pretend to be a sophisticated as you (no sarcasm intended) in terms of my ability to project players. I would naively think that if the Pats thought Barwin, Matthews, Sintim, English or someone else was eventually best suited at SILB that they would benefit from getting some education at that position early, rather than learning how to set the edge and maintain the point of attack before moving inside.

I like Cody Brown in the 3rd if we don't get one of the other players mentioned in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I guess I'm not sure I understand the logic of trying to develop someone at OLB for a few years if the plan is to move them inside. I tend to look more at ability to take on and shed blockers, lateral mobility, and inside penetration more than how good someone is at the edge...

Let's try this again:

For purposes of clarification, at what point have "I" suggested Barwin or Matthews was someone to move to ILB? Others have suggested it, I've disagreed stating "I" am unable to project them inside though it may occur 'in time.'

Which prospects have I suggested are worth considering at ILB? Sintim (6'2"). English (6'2"). Cody Brown (6'2").

Why Sintim? He's been a four year Linebacker at Virginia where he's demonstrated he can play downhill against the run and not just pin his ears back to rush the passer. He's used to engaging Offensive Linemen at the point of attack. He most reminds me of Eagles' linebacker Stewart Bradley who became my #1 ILB prospect in his draft class. Bradley mostly played SLB at Nebraska, though he did have work at MLB and DE, and was a high school S. Sintim is a four year starter at OLB who was a high school DE. Both players are good against the run, both were branded as too stiff in coverage.

Why English? He's a star high school ILB who was used at Defensive End in college, but also allowed to drop into zones on occasion. I've seen him playing the run in two games plus the Senior Bowl and see a player who isn't as difficult to project inside as others. He's not as strong a projection as Sintim, but he's already done it at the high school level.

Why Brown? He's a more difficult projection inside, but like English he's been productive on the edge and he's been used in zone blitz coverage. I've also caught UConn games the past couple years and have my impression of his play. He led all UConn DL in TT as a junior and senior.

Why "not" for Barwin? He's had one year of playing on defense. He does not use technique, instead he was told to get to the QB any way you can - the rest was pure athleticism and pure hustle. As a TE he has some hand fighting skill and an understanding of how to use his hands to engage and block a defensive player, as a DE he's not been coached up there and thus does "not" show the same strength at the point of attack as others (pull your recording of the Orange Bowl for a case in point). He's a very easy projection at OLB, it's a natural extension of his current job. He's not shown me enough to project him inside, there are hints, but no consistency.

Why "not" Matthews? He's a reserve DE/OLB for who is "not" especially noted for his college play. He has shown hustle and speed off the edge to pressure the QB, he looked the best of the four USC linebackers in coverage in his All-Star game, I've not seen him being especially stought at the point of attack...actually I've not seen any USC linebacker being especially stought at the point of attack. For me, Matthews is the rawest of the five prospects described here, and that takes some doing alongside Barwin. He is also the only one of the five discusse here who has "prefers to run around blocks rather than take them on" in his profile.

All five are good kids whom I expect to play well as Pros. Barwin is my binky, but not for his projection at ILB, that's further down the road once he's been turned into the cross between Demarcus Ware and Mike Vrabel.

 

[mayoclinic]

Let's try this again:

For purposes of clarification, at what point have "I" suggested Barwin or Matthews was someone to move to ILB? Others have suggested it, I've disagreed stating "I" am unable to project them inside though it may occur 'in time.'

Which prospects have I suggested are worth considering at ILB? Sintim (6'2"). English (6'2"). Cody Brown (6'2").

Why Sintim? He's been a four year Linebacker at Virginia where he's demonstrated he can play downhill against the run and not just pin his ears back to rush the passer. He's used to engaging Offensive Linemen at the point of attack. He most reminds me of Eagles' linebacker Stewart Bradley who became my #1 ILB prospect in his draft class. Bradley mostly played SLB at Nebraska, though he did have work at MLB and DE, and was a high school S. Sintim is a four year starter at OLB who was a high school DE. Both players are good against the run, both were branded as too stiff in coverage.

Why English? He's a star high school ILB who was used at Defensive End in college, but also allowed to drop into zones on occasion. I've seen him playing the run in two games plus the Senior Bowl and see a player who isn't as difficult to project inside as others. He's not as strong a projection as Sintim, but he's already done it at the high school level.

Why Brown? He's a more difficult projection inside, but like English he's been productive on the edge and he's been used in zone blitz coverage. I've also caught UConn games the past couple years and have my impression of his play. He led all UConn DL in TT as a junior and senior.

Why "not" for Barwin? He's had one year of playing on defense. He does not use technique, instead he was told to get to the QB any way you can - the rest was pure athleticism and pure hustle. As a TE he has some hand fighting skill and an understanding of how to use his hands to engage and block a defensive player, as a DE he's not been coached up there and thus does "not" show the same strength at the point of attack as others (pull your recording of the Orange Bowl for a case in point). He's a very easy projection at OLB, it's a natural extension of his current job. He's not shown me enough to project him inside, there are hints, but no consistency.

Why "not" Matthews? He's a reserve DE/OLB for who is "not" especially noted for his college play. He has shown hustle and speed off the edge to pressure the QB, he looked the best of the four USC linebackers in coverage in his All-Star game, I've not seen him being especially stought at the point of attack...actually I've not seen any USC linebacker being especially stought at the point of attack. For me, Matthews is the rawest of the five prospects described here, and that takes some doing alongside Barwin. He is also the only one of the five discusse here who has "prefers to run around blocks rather than take them on" in his profile.

All five are good kids whom I expect to play well as Pros. Barwin is my binky, but not for his projection at ILB, that's further down the road once he's been turned into the cross between Demarcus Ware and Mike Vrabel.

Thank you. Very nice analysis, in keeping with what I've come to expect from you. My only question is what you think about Robert Ayers from Tennessee, 6'2" 270#, who like English also played ILB in HS, and like English has been used at DE but moved all over (including some DT), and dropped back into coverage at times.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thank you. Very nice analysis, in keeping with what I've come to expect from you. My only question is what you think about Robert Ayers from Tennessee, 6'2" 270#, who like English also played ILB in HS, and like English has been used at DE but moved all over (including some DT), and dropped back into coverage at times.

Like Bradley, I only got to see him in the Senior Bowl. unlike Bradley, Ayers was used exclusively on the DL in practice in the game and there was no chance to see him in space and assess his downhill prospects playing on his feet. I see it as more likely that 6'3" 273 lb Ayers is turned over to Coach Woicik for help in gaining another 12 pounds to bring him up to Jarvis Green size.

 

[bakes781]

Another kid that was pretty impressive at the Sr. Bowl was, DE, Mitch King out of Iowa.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Thank you sir, just trying to find a way to put a realistic handle on all this. I'm not at all certain NE will draft another LB this year, I like the pool of youngsters on the current roster, though I don't see a clear heir for the inside in this mix and the LB talent in this draft class is so very intriguing.

BOR,

I agree with you, regarding the youngsters at LB. We just have to agree to diagree. I like Lauranitis for everything other than shedding Gs, and think he is only above average to good at that. But it is far outweighed by the inside ILB blitzing, underneath INTs, and Pass Defense he brings.

I would readily accept Sintim inside, and wanted him when I never thought Rey or JL would be there at #23. The problem I have is that Sintim contributes little to the pass defense and maybe not much to the shoot the gaps TFL stats. And Mayo doesn't appear to have those capacities either. I firmly believe that is an absolute necessity to make a superior 3-4 D.

 

[mayoclinic]

BOR,

I agree with you, regarding the youngsters at LB. We just have to agree to diagree. I like Lauranitis for everything other than shedding Gs, and think he is only above average to good at that. But it is far outweighed by the inside ILB blitzing, underneath INTs, and Pass Defense he brings.

I would readily accept Sintim inside, and wanted him when I never thought Rey or JL would be there at #23. The problem I have is that Sintim contributes little to the pass defense and maybe not much to the shoot the gaps TFL stats. And Mayo doesn't appear to have those capacities either. I firmly believe that is an absolute necessity to make a superior 3-4 D.

While I agree that pass defense and shooting the gap for TFL are important attributes of our ideal ILBs, I'm not yet ready to conclude that Mayo doesn't have those abilities. He appeared to display both in college. I just think that we used him in a limited roll as a rookie in order to not overwhelm him, which seems to be BB's tendency. He did amazingly well as it was. I actually think that relative to say Patrick Willis, who is more of a pure tackling machine, Mayo has better coverage ability and ability to penetrate for TFL, and I think that ultimately he will be more valuable to the Pats because of those abilities. I expect him to be let lose much more this year in both capacities, and believe that he will be the clear captain of the defense (in effect if not in title) by the end of the year.

 

[My2Cents]

When all is said and done, DE/LB Lawrence Sidbury out of Richmond may prove every bit as good, minus the injury history.