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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So 8 guys are sitting around a table having a poker game in one of their houses, and the Gmen bust in, take the loot, and leave the people be.

    Seriously now...


    Knox deputies raid Bexhill subdivision poker game

    By News Sentinel staff
    Knoxville News Sentinel
    Posted July 7, 2011 at 5:57 p.m.

    KNOXVILLE - Knox County Sheriff's Office deputies raided yet another allegedly illegal gambling operation Wednesday night.

    The latest raid targeted a poker game inside a private residence in the Bexhill subdivision in West Knox County, according to a KCSO spokeswoman Ashley Haynes.

    Deputies discovered eight people around one poker table at 1304 Buxton Drive, and seized approximately $1,000 cash, Haynes said.

    No arrests were made, but all information was turned over the Knox County District Attorney General's Office for possible charges, she said.

    The raid follows at least seven other such operations carried out by KCSO within the past five weeks, targeting underground poker games and businesses operating video poker machines.
    Knox deputies raid Bexhill subdivision poker game » Knoxville News Sentinel
     
  2. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    grinding at poker for supplement income? illegal...

    losing your entire life savings in the stock market? completely acceptable.

    Can't figure out a way to profit off of it? Gotta make it "illegal."
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Scratch tickets that suck every last dollar from the poor, excellent! Seriously dude, it's such a joke sometimes. Grown adults unable to use their private, hard earned dollars to play cards with. Nanny state extrordinare.
     
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    and state lotteries that advertise huge jackpots, when the actual cash payout available as a lump sum is substantially less? also fine, as long as it's the state
     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure if you've been in Massachusetts and heard the ads for the lottery, and how they tell a story in a quiet voice with the heart felt background music, about how the lottery puts cops on the street, and books in schools. Mind you, I'm not opposed to a state having a lottery. I just don't like the hypocracy involved.
     
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm opposed to all of it. the worst is the hypocrisy, yes.

    And I'm ok w/a lottery existing, but I don't think it should be a government function.

    and advertising like you mention here is wrong on many levels. But the deception regarding payouts disgusts me most. Nominal dollars are misleading, particularly given implied discount rates that are so high.
     
  7. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    technically speaking, killing online poker was a GOP initiative.... see Bill Frist's weasel move to sneak anti-poker legislation into the secure ports bill.
     
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One might think that law enforcement might have bigger fishes to fry...

    The home is your castle is slowly becoming a tent.
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Cambridge Cops did the same thing to us when we used to "shoot crap" in the back yards, they laughed their asses off while they were doing it, the Cops stole anything they could get their hands on back in "the good old days"
     
  10. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Maybe they did it at the request of Bill Bennett's wife.
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it was a GOP initiative as it all begun under GW's second term, but I do think it had a healthy amount of support from both parties. I could be wrong, but outside of the Ron Paul, Barney Frank types, I don't remember to much opposition to banning poker. Again, I could be wrong.

    BTW, Bill Frist is a tool.
     
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I understand what you are saying here, but there is a difference between gambling on games of chance and investing in public corporations. There is an element of skill in poker, but generally speaking it is truly a gamble.

    If you are talking about trading futures, options or other derivatives as a naked bet then that is definitely more analogous.
     
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    OT: I wonder how often individuals' stock picks are "winners" v "losers," i.e., how much of a split b/t skill and luck there is. I wouldn't be surprised if it is pretty similar to poker, actually. (and that's what efficient markets would imply, though the markets of course aren't perfectly efficient)
     
  14. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Please. A player has far more control over his investments at the poker table than he EVER has in the stock market.

    The stock market is one big game of chance.

    When I'm dealt two cards, I most certainly don't have to play the hand any further.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  15. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    This is a silly statement which shows a tremendous amount of ignorance. The stock market is very predictable over the long term. Oh sure, if you're a day trader then you're really doing little more than gambling. But if you're investing in the long term, it's virtually a no lose situation for any non-idiotic investor.
    It's a poor analogy because poker is a zero sum game; i.e. any dollar somone wins means someone else lost that dollar. (Actually, after the rake, it is a negative expectation game).

    Investing in a company is something whereby all investors can profit. I'm not saying that always happens, but it certainly is the goal and is possible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  16. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Irony, considering what follows:

    This sounds like the rationalization of a junior Friedman who insists that infinite growth is a logical assumption. It isn't. It's only "no lose" when global growth is ongoing. Growth is over.

    If you're investing in the long term right now, unless you're putting money into "transition" technologies for a world that will soon have to cope with less, it's a virtually no-win situation. Don't kid yourself.

    Of course, if you earn rake-back and put in for deposit bonuses, this more than makes up for the rake.

    Regardless, if you want to insist the stock market isn't "zero sum" here in this age of stalled growth, then that shows a tremendous amount of ignorance.

    Any way you want to spin it, an investor has far more control over risk at the poker table. But because the state can't capitalize on it, they make it illegal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  17. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Well, with the current moron occupying the Oval Office these days I'm inclined to agree. Fortunately I know my history and I know how to make informed, analytic decisions - not react emotionally like you are doing here.
    Sorry, I only play poker in real life grown up casinos. They don't have rakeback and deposit bonuses at Foxwoods, and I don't trust online sites with my money - which is wise considering the recent events over at Full Tilt and PokerStars. How much "control" do you think those gamblers have over their funds which were all tied up in offshore accounts for a while there?
    And the fact that you have to put words in my mouth shows how weak your own argument is. What part of "in the long term" did you not understand? I wrote it twice, but I guess that still wasn't enough to get you to understand.
    The fact that you're using completely made up vernacular ("control") shows you really just don't know what you're talking about. That word is so vague it can mean just about anything you want it to.

    I don't give spin, I present facts. And fact is that poker is a negative expectation game or, at the very best, a zero-sum game if you're playing without a rake (such as a home game). The stock market, over the long term, is a positive expectation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  18. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Right, because the problems affecting growth are due entirely to the "black kenyan socialist" and not basic geology predicted 60 years ago, and you're not "reacting emotionally" at all.

    Do you even think before you type? Ever?

    Actually, genius, all live casinos have rewards cards and Bad Beat specials. You obviously barely play, or remain so fixated on Fox News that they blare above each table, that you are completely oblivious to the options presented to all players. Just admit that your piss-poor analysis two posts ago fell flat, and move on.

    As I said, long term investment relies on normal levels of growth. You can say "in the long term" 100 times, if you like. Doesn't change the fact that it depends upon a healthy global economy in order to mitigate risk.

    As does this petty quibble, whereby you pretend you're baffled over what I said, which was quite easy to fathom. In any hand, I can push, fold, or float. Heck, I can stand up from the table and get lunch if I want.

    In the stock market, once I submit my money, the value of my holding is largely out of my hands until I sell.

    Dude, I've seen your tired work throughout this forum. You embody spin. And when that doesn't work for you, you cry to the moderators regarding your "harsh" treatment.

    Poker only has a negative expectation if you're an average-to-horrible player (which I'm now convinced you are)...

    The stock market, over the long term, has a positive expectation ONLY when growth can be maintained.

    Once again, for the thinking addled: Growth is over, as predicted many decades ago for a world with too many people, and not enough energy. You don't seem to be disputing that notion, so I'll assume you agree.

    But, whatever, quibble king. You seem to be rationalizing the legality of two forms of gambling based on how "easy" it is for the average "player" to make money. Seems an odd way of justifying legal grounds.

    Fail.

    Now, I'm sure you'll fire back with more sanctimonious spin, but your basic premise is wrong, and I'm confident you know it.

    The free market most certainly IS zero sum, just as the poker room.
     
  19. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Well you didn't say "rewards cards and bad beat specials" did you? You said "rake back and deposit bonus." So that's pathetic how you tried to change your statement and hope nobody would notice.

    BTW, genius, a bad beat special is NOT a positive expectation for the player. Here's a clue you clearly need: You do realize the dealer skims a dollar per hand from the pot to go into the bad beat jackpot, right? What do you think a bad beat jackpot is? The casino generously deciding to give away $200,000 worth of their own money? :rofl: :rofl:

    THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES FUND THE BAD BEAT JACKPOT, GENIUS.
    Everything I've said it 100% accurate. And the free t-shirt you get from the Foxwoods Dream Card from sitting at the table for 8 hours doesn't turn it into a positive expectation game.

    Seriously, do you know how pathetic you sound? I say poker at a casino is a negative expectation game and you're so hellbent on disagreeing (as well showing your ignorance) that you think rewards points somehow changes that? :rofl: :rofl:
    You're using a short term factor to describe long term risk, which further demonstrates your ignorance. The global economy is going to go through times of good health and bad health.

    But absolutely nothing you've said changes the fact that over the long term, the trend is upward.
    Nothing you've written here changes the fact that poker is a negative expectation game whereas the stock market is a long term positive expectation.
    Now you're showing your ignorance of simple statistics. Might I suggest you take an 10th grade level stats course so you can better understand the terms I'm using here?

    When I say something is a negative expectation that means across the board. There's definitely some players who win and do well and make a rather nice living by playing poker. But like I said before, every single dollar that someone has won playing poker means someone else had to lose that dollar. Factor in the rake and you have a negative expectation game. I'm sure you're the best poker player in the entire world living in a multi-million dollar mansion :)rolleyes:), but that does nothing to change my statements of fact.
    What the heck are you talking about here? I haven't said a single thing about legality. I think poker (including online poker) should be legal.

    Once you're done with that 10th grade level stats class, I suggest you then take a 2nd grade level reading comprehension class.
    Yeah. Sure. That's why the stock market is at the exact same level today that it was in 1946. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  20. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Not entirely. Some pay dividends which you can reinvest in the same issue or elsewhere. You can sell covered calls against them to generate additional income if the stock hits a rough period.

    How many economies in history have had economic growth with negative population growth (i.e. your master plan)?

    By your definition, yes. Since you maintain that the economy will no longer grow then within the bounds of discussion you have outlined you are correct. Other people think differently.
     

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