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Lack of Tully pursuit...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patsox23, Feb 23, 2007.

  1. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Given all the ink on how the Pats didn't play TBC much in SD and, especially, Indy, I wonder if this is a sign NOT just that the team has seen enough of Banta-Cain, but also that they feel Woods and Mays might be just as capable of producing in the limited way TBC did, and for far less $$$. Similar to the Ethan Kelley situation - where they felt it was time to give him a shot and see if he could fly (he couldn't) - Tully got his chance to show his colors last year. If the reports are true, clearly he wasn't up to the BAR that BB/Pioli set. So, I guess, it could just be an admission of his failure.

    My hope, however, is that there's also an element of "Well, these guys could show something so let's move him along so they get THEIR shot."

    Obviously it's too early to know any of this, but that's what's on my mind, LB-wise, anyway. (That and drafting at least one on Day One.) Thoughts?
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    He was on the bench when Seau was here. He should be a good backup if they get him cheap.
  3. salty

    salty Rookie

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    My thinking is that Belichick and Pioli don't value one dimensional players much, if at all. Banta-Cain has proven to be a pretty good situational pass rusher, but terrible against the run and in coverage. I wouldn't call it a "failure" since he was a 7th round pick, I'd just say that they've probably developed him as much as they think they can and have come to find that he can't take The Next Step. So he'll move on, somebody else will pay him more than he's worth (good for Tully) and the Pats will replace him easily. Thats my take.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
  4. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    not bad for a 7 round pick, is a good special teamer and good backup , id like to see him stick around he knows the system
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think this thinking is a real stretch.
    TBC is a backup LB. One LB got injured, so he became the fill in to start.
    Against Indy, for reasons we do not know, the coaching staff decided a different backup would be a better matchup in that game. (My personal feeling is that Vrabels play over the years vs the Colts made them think it was best to play him outside rather than inside, so rather than filling the vacant starter spot with an OLB, they filled it with an ILB-Alexander)
    I don't know how Woods or Mays would fit into that equation because TBC ultimately played pretty mcuh the entire second half when Colvin and/or Vrabel were out.
    IF we assume that the coaching staff felt TBC was a starter waiting to happen.
    THEN we assume they were disappointed with what he did as a starter.
    THEN we assume that led them to drastically alter their opinion of him.
    THEN we assume he was not playing because he lost his job, not just because of matchup differences.
    THEN we assume this now means they don't even consider him a viable backup any more.
    Then I guess I end up with a similar conclusion (although Woods or Mays wouldhave tobe on the field before him for me to think they surpassed him)
    But I have misgivings about ANY of those assumptions.
  6. pats60

    pats60 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Hasn`t played that much against the run until this year.
    Give him another chance if the price is right.
  7. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    BB can't do anthing more than try and upgrade the position. Whether he wants to just add quality depth, or create competition for the starter's position, his options will always be FA or the draft. TBC can still have a valuable role here. Starter or backup remains to be seen...
  8. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    I thought Ethan Kelley was cut for reporting to camp fat and out of shape? The same reason Robinson-Randall and Woody were shown the door? I've never heard anything like that about TBC.

    I still think Indy was about what Vrabel and Alexander brought to the table, not what TBC didn't. When he was in he got a good push against Glenn, and I don't know if his coverage struggles where his own doing, or were the result of a difficult defensive scheme (as Breer seems to think). By the time he got sent in for Colvin Colts receivers were breaking loose all over the place, so it wasn't just TBC.

    What we all should remember is that TBC is only the second young linebacker to work his way into the starting lineup. The first was Matt Chatham, and although he never really cut the mustard as a starter Belichick kept him around, because it is just not easy to find and train young linebackers in this system. I think they'll try and hold on to TBC.
  9. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    TBC is likely viewed as a player with limited upside, given he is 3rd on the depth chart they may feel that they can get a cheaper player with more upside through the draft or a veteran who can produce more.

    I think next week several of the pending free agents will be contacted, some will sign and some will leave. The combine may provide some additional information on the overall depth of the draft.

    Players that they may try to get something done with Evans, Gay (RFA), Izzo, Yates, Bulla-Cain.

    All of the ERFA will likely get signed soon as well. Mostly just noise, the real fun starts March 2 when free agency begins.
  10. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    He is a piece of **** in my book. Let him sign with the Jets.
  11. GHOSTOFSAMGASH

    GHOSTOFSAMGASH Rookie

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    he is a piece of **** because he is not that good of a player and he did at least a passable job starting/playing when he had too.:rocker: hes not that good but... TBC= a poor man's Dwight Freeney in a different system
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There, a ringing endorsement for TBC's retention.
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At best he is a situational, ST or 3rd down player... he is what he is, do not see him getting big bucks, if he stays here will continue as he has in the past. Will not overspend for him. But with all that cash out there, and his predigree as a Patriot some team may offer him a lot more than he is worth.. see Damien Woody, Will McGinnest, David Givens et al.
  14. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    what a nice well thought out piece of info thanks for sharing
  15. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    imho Tully Banta Cain is a good back-up - not a starter

    having said that i hope he will be able to find an agreement with the Pats for that role

    surely BB and SP will not overpay for him

    he could have anyway a market-so he could leave Foxboro...
  16. Gon_Trevil

    Gon_Trevil Rookie

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    He gave us, what, 4 years of solid special teams play and occasional pass rushing? That's a very solid return on investment for a 7th rounder.
  17. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I just don't see why he would be motivated to re-sign here for "back-up+" money when he probably CAN land "so-so starter who 'knows how to win' and can rush the passer" money on the open market.
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He wouldnt be in that scenario.
    I dont think its the right question though because I dont think that anyone will offer him the kind of contract you are talking about.
    I think the view of TBC throughout the league is somewhere between solid backup and might or might not make the roster. I do think his value is the highest on our system though.
  19. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    I disagree wholeheartedly with the entire thrust of these posts.

    TBC is a home developed, DE to OLB conversion who completed his fourth year. The previous starter converted from a DL to linebacker was a situational pass rusher for four years before he got some starts in his fifth year. Oh yeah, that guys name was Tedy Bruischi...

    TBC and Tedy had the flu the week before the AFCCG. I know that Vrabel said they started Alexander for middle pass coverage, but that was because. Harrison was hurt, Hawkins was hurt, Davis was hurt and Scott was hurt and Tebuckey was hurt. Those guys were the coverage LB /Safeties on the roster.

    TBC as a pass rusher has a higher sack rate per snap than Meriman or Freeney. That pass rush ability is not something easy to find.

    I think he will eventually be a starter and improve his pass coverage and run defense with more experience. Or he will be lost in FA and y'all will be saying what an out sized contract stupid contract some other front office paid for him. If you are right then he is merely an awfully valuable spot situation player, like Jarvis Green.

    You guys complain we never draft and train young LBs and here we are doing exactly that, and you are complaining he isn't an instant All-Pro after five starts.

    Make up your minds ... Do you want older trained LBs, or younger ones that need a couple three years before they can contribute? Woods as a conversion project is two years away as is Mays and Alexander neither of ewhich has the required speed or talent, IMO.
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    AJ,

    I respect your opinion but TBC would make a roster EXCLUSIVELY on his ST ability for any team in the league. Playing ST this past year he was only 1 tackle behind Larry Izzo on ST stops.

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