Lack of interior OL help

[DaBruinz]

I thought Cannon would Ride PUP all year? Or are we seriously entertaining putting him on the 6 or 8 week PUP and using him after his stint? (idk if that shortened PUP is 6 or 8 weeks?)

I really thought Cannon was a no go this yr.? I figured our medical red tape would quarantine him to this team, since other teams could not claim him off our practice squad. He has a viable PUP excuse written all over him. No way do we expect him on team this yr. Or am I totally wrong?

You are totally wrong.

Under the old PUP rules: (please note I do not know if these rules have changed)

• A player can only be added to the Active/PUP at the start of TC. Once the player starts practicing, they are removed from the PUP list.
• A player on the Actice/PUP list at the end of TC can either be activated or put on the Reserve/PUP list.
• A player on the Reserve/PUP list can't practice until after the 6th week.
• After the 6th week, a team has 3 weeks to decide whether to activate the player or put the Player on the IR.
• Once the player is on IR, he's done.

As for the practice squad, a player has to clear waivers to be put there. And another team can sign said player at any point in time.

Cannon would not make it through the waiver process.



As for the Practice Squad, a player can be signed off the practice squad by another team at any point in time.

Also, Cannon, by all accounts, has beaten the Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma and he is in camp and expecting to PLAY this year. Not just sit on the IR.

Now, whether or not he'll be PUP'ed is another story. Last I knew, he was on the NFI list. I don't know what limitations there are with that, but I expect him to make the 53 man roster. Much like I expected Welker to be ready to go at the start of last season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

First off, there are a bunch of free agents out there still- if we don't sign them, it's because Belichick thinks we don't need them, or he has another plan in place, or the guys there are fine, or he expects Cannon to contribute at some point this season. The possibilities are pretty endless, it's not like there aren't options.

 

[DaBruinz]

While the Pats do have Dan Connolly there, I have to disagree with the statement that he's a starting quality guard. He definitely played better at RG than he did at LG, but the reality is that he shouldn't be considered "starting quality". Connolly was responsible for at least 5 sacks while playing at LG that were erroneously attributed to Light by PFF.

Could the Pats improve upon Connolly? Yep. And I feel confident that Marcus Cannon will be the answer once he proves himself healthy to start practicing.

Would I love to see a Brian Waters, Leonard Davis or Rich Seubert in here? Sure. But at what cost? Right now, they are still hoping to win themselves permanent starting jobs. Would any of you really want to sign with a team knowing that they fully planned on replacing you ASAP? Would you want to sign with a team knowing that you'd spend a majority of the time riding the pine?

 

[jmt57]

For whatever my opinion may be worth (yeah, yeah, I know, not much), I much prefer to see Connolly return to the role of a backup. I see him best suited as that above-average backup, versatile enough to play three positions, and competent enough to do so well enough that there's relatively little angst if a starter heads to the sideline.

In other words, an updated version of Russ Hochstein.

I am absolutely a huge fan of Connolly's for stepping up to a big challenge and doing better than could reasonably be expected last year. He was supposed to be not the third, but fourth option at guard last year; remember it was Nick Kaczur that was going to be the guy off the bench if Mankins held out or Neal got hurt; unfortunately both happened, Kaczur had to have back surgery, and Connolly ended up being a starter for the entire season.

It's very similar to the situation with Kyle Arrington. Arrington was a player that was supposed to see the field strictly on special teams, but he too got pressed into duty - and he too did better than could reasonably be expected. Leigh Bodden went on IR, Darius Butler did not progress as expected, Wilhite and Wheatley were injured/ineffective/traded and all of a sudden the guy who was questionable to make the team because he was sixth on the depth chart was being counted on to start.

A standing ovation to Arrington for answering the challenge admirably, but nobody is calling for him to be the long-term starter. Connolly is in a similar but not identical position; the Pats need him to start for one more year, and then Cannon can take over and he can go back to being the super-sub.

With that in mind, would it have been worth it to bring a veteran guard to start this year? That's a debatable point, but to me the answer is no. Somebody that is going to be more productive than Connolly is not only going to want a decent amount of money, but also guarantees above and beyond a one-year contract. Until or unless some unsigned vet gets desperate, I don't see how it would be worth it to sign a starting guard.

For now the Pats would be better off looking for relatively inexpensive backups to compete with the guys who have been here working under Dante for a couple of years.

 

[italia44]

For whatever my opinion may be worth (yeah, yeah, I know, not much), I much prefer to see Connolly return to the role of a backup. I see him best suited as that above-average backup, versatile enough to play three positions, and competent enough to do so well enough that there's relatively little angst if a starter heads to the sideline.

In other words, an updated version of Russ Hochstein.

I am absolutely a huge fan of Connolly's for stepping up to a big challenge and doing better than could reasonably be expected last year. He was supposed to be not the third, but fourth option at guard last year; remember it was Nick Kaczur that was going to be the guy off the bench if Mankins held out or Neal got hurt; unfortunately both happened, Kaczur had to have back surgery, and Connolly ended up being a starter for the entire season.

It's very similar to the situation with Kyle Arrington. Arrington was a player that was supposed to see the field strictly on special teams, but he too got pressed into duty - and he too did better than could reasonably be expected. Leigh Bodden went on IR, Darius Butler did not progress as expected, Wilhite and Wheatley were injured/ineffective/traded and all of a sudden the guy who was questionable to make the team because he was sixth on the depth chart was being counted on to start.

A standing ovation to Arrington for answering the challenge admirably, but nobody is calling for him to be the long-term starter. Connolly is in a similar but not identical position; the Pats need him to start for one more year, and then Cannon can take over and he can go back to being the super-sub.

With that in mind, would it have been worth it to bring a veteran guard to start this year? That's a debatable point, but to me the answer is no. Somebody that is going to be more productive than Connolly is not only going to want a decent amount of money, but also guarantees above and beyond a one-year contract. Until or unless some unsigned vet gets desperate, I don't see how it would be worth it to sign a starting guard.

For now the Pats would be better off looking for relatively inexpensive backups to compete with the guys who have been here working under Dante for a couple of years.

I know what you're saying jmt and I don't necessarily disagree. However,the alarm bells that are going off in my head are: Time and Numbers.

Next week is the first expo game...Time is now very compressed. 5 Rb's may cost us Price at WR. Another OL could put Cannon on year long disabled list or lose a promising youngster. (Teams must be salivating over the Patriots cuts).

See what I mean?.....It's fish or cut bait time, imho.

 

[captain stone]

Wendell & OBurger are likely safe for this season. There's simply not enough time
to immerse an outsider in all the assignments of the backup C/G positions here.

Next year, however, has no excuse. Next year, Bill needs to give size & talent a chance.

 

[supafly]

I know what you're saying jmt and I don't necessarily disagree. However,the alarm bells that are going off in my head are: Time and Numbers.

Next week is the first expo game...Time is now very compressed. 5 Rb's may cost us Price at WR. Another OL could put Cannon on year long disabled list or lose a promising youngster. (Teams must be salivating over the Patriots cuts).

See what I mean?.....It's fish or cut bait time, imho.

I agree that there are always a number of teams that salivate over our cuts, there is usually some decent talent on those cuts--at least opposed to a lot of other teams' cuts anyway.

I respectfully think you are borderline crazy for seriously thinking that :

1. The running back position would have any bearing on who gets cut at the WR position. There are many positions on this team. I am not sure why you would relate the RB situation to the WR situation, but I do not hold you responsible for that, as we have heard it before. In other words, I certainly don't mean to be a pr!ck about it, but I strongly disagree with the notion. What about OL, ST, CB, DL etc...you simply don't hear about WR cuts with those positions. Why RB? Belichick usually likes a RBBC theory, and we also have 2 new draft picks. Couple that with the fact that a long time well respected vet is coming back, one who BB reportedly told "that he has a spot on the team for," and I couldn't see why anyone would be slightly shocked at keeping anything less than 5? They all offer different roles, and we cannot assume anything at all about the 2 rookies, other than they will make the team.

2. That a high 3rd rd pick with a ton of potential and who is having a great TC would be in jeopardy of getting cut, when all he's done is what has been asked of him, which was to learn, do his job, and be patient--especially when BB hasn't even really seen him in live game reps...I find it incredibly hard to believe that a coach of Belichick's history would even remotely consider immediately giving up on a guy who plays WR just b/c there are "5 RB's." Does anyone really think that Taylor Price of all people will be the one punished? What exactly did he do 'wrong?' If that were the case then why the hell did BB even bother drafting him? It was more than obvious that there was no room for him last yr, with the re-implementation of the TE's into our scheme, Moss/Welker, the return of Branch...

IF there's a WR who's getting cut out of the big 6, it isn't going to be Taylor Price, that's for sure.

I think there are about 5 different scenarios involving the WR position BEFORE anyone's talking or thinking about getting rid of poor Taylor Price. Don't we have history and patterns to go by here??

 

[italia44]

I agree that there are always a number of teams that salivate over our cuts, there is usually some decent talent on those cuts--at least opposed to a lot of other teams' cuts anyway.

I respectfully think you are borderline crazy for seriously thinking that :

1. The running back position would have any bearing on who gets cut at the WR position. There are many positions on this team. I am not sure why you would relate the RB situation to the WR situation, but I do not hold you responsible for that, as we have heard it before. In other words, I certainly don't mean to be a pr!ck about it, but I strongly disagree with the notion. What about OL, ST, CB, DL etc...you simply don't hear about WR cuts with those positions. Why RB? Belichick usually likes a RBBC theory, and we also have 2 new draft picks. Couple that with the fact that a long time well respected vet is coming back, one who BB reportedly told "that he has a spot on the team for," and I couldn't see why anyone would be slightly shocked at keeping anything less than 5? They all offer different roles, and we cannot assume anything at all about the 2 rookies, other than they will make the team.

2. That a high 3rd rd pick with a ton of potential and who is having a great TC would be in jeopardy of getting cut, when all he's done is what has been asked of him, which was to learn, do his job, and be patient--especially when BB hasn't even really seen him in live game reps...I find it incredibly hard to believe that a coach of Belichick's history would even remotely consider immediately giving up on a guy who plays WR just b/c there are "5 RB's." Does anyone really think that Taylor Price of all people will be the one punished? What exactly did he do 'wrong?' If that were the case then why the hell did BB even bother drafting him? It was more than obvious that there was no room for him last yr, with the re-implementation of the TE's into our scheme, Moss/Welker, the return of Branch...

IF there's a WR who's getting cut out of the big 6, it isn't going to be Taylor Price, that's for sure.

I think there are about 5 different scenarios involving the WR position BEFORE anyone's talking or thinking about getting rid of poor Taylor Price. Don't we have history and patterns to go by here??

I was using examples to show jmt my theory on time and numbers.If you want to nitpick specific names...fine....substitute Brandon Tate for Taylor Price or Edelperson or Ocho...whatever.The theory of numbers is still the same.

Also,I believe that Rb's and Wr's are related,at least with BB.Historically,at least to me,BB has a pecking order when it comes to keeping "extra" players.He'd rather keep one more OL/DL,DB,ST or RB(in that loose order) rather than a sixth wr.

It's not the names,it's the numbers.Imo,if he goes with Kevin Faulk or Sammy Morris,then it will directly affect Taylor Price or Brandon Tate.

 

[jmt57]

Not sure if this is simply camp fodder, extra depth in case of injury, or legitimate competition for a roster spot on the offensive line:

Patriots claim offensive lineman off of waivers - Extra Points - Boston.com - Monique Walker

The Patriots have claimed offensive lineman Mark Wetterer, who was with the Cincinnati Bengals, off of waivers, according to a league source.

Wetterer is in his rookie season. He is 6-4 and 305 pounds and played at the University of Louisville. He listed primarily as a guard.

 

[eom]

Not sure if this is simply camp fodder, extra depth in case of injury, or legitimate competition for a roster spot on the offensive line:

Patriots claim offensive lineman off of waivers - Extra Points - Boston.com - Monique Walker

I think these kind of guys are just somebody they have some kind of interest in and they're keeping the roster full ---- whoever shakes out when they make cuts is up in the air.
Maybe he ends up on ps.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I still think that whenever they think Solder is ready to play LT, Light will be moved inside to guard. The best 5 will play. It may be week one, It may be week 10 but I'd expect to see this lineup at some point, barring injuries.

LT Solder
LG Mankins
C Koppen
RG Light
RT Vollmer
Connolly and Wendell active reserves on gameday.

Swap out Cannon for Light next year and draft a Center, the line should be in good shape this year and years to come.

 

[sg14]

due to injuries, Wilfork and Cohen were playing OL guard at TC today.

Reports from Patriots.com radio they don't know if they can field a backup set of OL for thursday's game.

 

[jeffbiologist]

I still think that whenever they think Solder is ready to play LT, Light will be moved inside to guard. The best 5 will play. It may be week one, It may be week 10 but I'd expect to see this lineup at some point, barring injuries.

LT Solder
LG Mankins
C Koppen
RG Light
RT Vollmer
Connolly and Wendell active reserves on gameday.

Swap out Cannon for Light next year and draft a Center, the line should be in good shape this year and years to come.

I can see Light possibly shifting to LG but the Light on the right hand side experiment 2 years ago failed miserably as BB even noted.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I can see Light possibly shifting to LG but the Light on the right hand side experiment 2 years ago failed miserably as BB even noted.

There was no right hand side experiment 2 years ago, The only right side experience Light had was in 2001 and it was Right Tackle not Right Guard. I doubt they would move Mankins from LG but if they had to out of necessity to accommodate Light than so be it. The point would be to have the 5 best players on the line.

 

[stinkypete]

Light has said on multiple occasions on WEEI that he is a left-side lineman. There is no chance he is moving to the right side. There are backups here, Wendell, Ojinnaka and Orhnberger.

And what about Cannon. Is he even PUPed? If not, why do we assume he is not going to play. I understand that cancer is serious, serious business, but if they guy can practice, he can play.

And when he does, he will be a BEAST

 

[Sciz]

And what about Cannon. Is he even PUPed? If not, why do we assume he is not going to play. I understand that cancer is serious, serious business, but if they guy can practice, he can play.

And when he does, he will be a BEAST

NFI, which for all of our purposes is the same as PUP.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Light has said on multiple occasions on WEEI that he is a left-side lineman. There is no chance he is moving to the right side. There are backups here, Wendell, Ojinnaka and Orhnberger.

And what about Cannon. Is he even PUPed? If not, why do we assume he is not going to play. I understand that cancer is serious, serious business, but if they guy can practice, he can play.

And when he does, he will be a BEAST

I assume this is directed at me, so I'll respond.


Seeing that Light has played exclusively LT over his NFL career, I think it can be assumed he is a left side lineman. You'll need to expand on this if you mean to say more.

The point of my post was to get the 5 best lineman on the field. That wouldn't be the case with Wendell or especially Ohrnberger out there. Ojinnaka isn't even on the team.

You would probably want to keep Mankins at the LG spot. If putting Light at RG works-fine, if switching Mankins and Light works-fine. I would have to believe Light at RG would be preferable to Ohrnberger out there. Again, five best.

I didn't say Cannon is PUP'd and I didn't assume he can't play. I also didn't assume he can play and it might be a little early to anoint him a starter for 2011 which is why I said he could replace Light next year. I made no mention of what to do with him this year, one way or another which is probably the safe way to play it.

 

[mgteich]

If Solder is ready to start, Mankins will most likely be our RG and Light our LG.
=========================================================
Connolly and Wendell are clearly our next b est OL's, so I would expect them to be game day actives, with Light moving over to LT if Solder were out.
==========================================

 

[DaBruinz]

I can see Light possibly shifting to LG but the Light on the right hand side experiment 2 years ago failed miserably as BB even noted.

Light was at RT which is different than RG..

 

[captain stone]

Not sure if this is simply camp fodder, extra depth in case of injury, or legitimate competition for a roster spot on the offensive line:

Patriots claim offensive lineman off of waivers - Extra Points - Boston.com - Monique Walker

Simply camp fodder.