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Koppen breaking down the O-line play


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I admit, I'm deflated after Sunday, Tip. Maybe just the blahs, I don't know but that game, the flatness, the going through the motions, the lack of any fire from this offense was very very disappointing. As a fan,I feel cheated when I see no effort from the players I expect to play up to the ticket price and the expectations of the fanbase. They act like they could give a shyt about us. That's the way I feel. This defense is coming along very nicely however, so I'll probably just take satisfaction that the Pats will probably be IN most of the games they play this season....but THIS O line? Playoffs? Heh...

jim_mora_playoffs-195x115.jpg
 
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Joe Kerr's reaction to BB moves since 2000

"this kid Brady?...over Bledsoe?? Nah!"

"cut Milloy a week before the season? stop lying to me!"

"let the best kicker in franchise history leave over a few bucks? child...please..."

"Ty Law is an All Pro cornerback on a team with Otis Smith and Jagley Q. Jaggerson...please, Law ain't goin' anywhere..."

"Willie? The smartest LB ,clutch performer on the team? To Cleveland?? gotta be a joke"

"Richard Seymour? For WHAT???????????????????...holy krist this can't be real.."

so...not Brady though, eh? Just can't be true, right?
 
may sound like some new age bullcrap, Sup, but...it's the body language I'm seeing. Brady's, his O line...you can SEE the huge disconnect. Joe Andruzzi would have punched Solder in the mouth when he got to the sideline for that crap he pulled after completely whiffing on a rush that buried Brady. He never offered to even help his QB up!!! That is extremely telling. I kept watching the shots of the Pats sideline whenever they panned the bench and I SAW an isolated and extremely unhappy Tom Brady.
Sounds like SB39 got to ya!

You need a weekend in Cabo!

 
Joe Kerr's reaction to BB moves since 2000

"this kid Brady?...over Bledsoe?? Nah!"

"cut Milloy a week before the season? stop lying to me!"

"let the best kicker in franchise history leave over a few bucks? child...please..."

"Ty Law is an All Pro cornerback on a team with Otis Smith and Jagley Q. Jaggerson...please, Law ain't goin' anywhere..."

"Willie? The smartest LB ,clutch performer on the team? To Cleveland?? gotta be a joke"

"Richard Seymour? For WHAT???????????????????...holy krist this can't be real.."

so...not Brady though, eh? Just can't be true, right?
You forgot Logan Mankins and the classic Brandon Meriweather, James "play like a champion" Sanders for James Ihedigbo, Sergio Brown.
 
I admit, I'm deflated after Sunday, Tip. Maybe just the blahs, I don't know but that game, the flatness, the going through the motions, the lack of any fire from this offense was very very disappointing. As a fan,I feel cheated when I see no effort from the players I expect to play up to the ticket price and the expectations of the fanbase. T hey act like they could give a shyt about us. That's the way I feel. This defense is coming along very nicely however, so I'll probably just take satisfaction that the Pats will probablty be IN most of the games they play this season....but THIS O line? Playoffs? Heh...

jim_mora_playoffs-195x115.jpg
You need a fall guy:

Dave "Jetdell" DeGuglielmo aka DeGarbageMo

Roger Goodell and Dave DeGuglielmo, ex-NY Jets trash.
 
Imagine what it's like to a be a young guard or receiver and have TFB screaming at you day after day after day from OTAs through training camp. I don't know, but it sure hasn't looked like Tom Brady would be much fun to be around for the last few years.
 
I do not understand why this DeGaggmee refugee from the Tony Sparano FG offense was EVER brought in for THIS team with THIS QB.
 
Imagine what it's like to a be a young guard or receiver and have TFB screaming at you day after day after day from OTAs through training camp. I don't know, but it sure hasn't looked like Tom Brady would be much fun to be around for the last few years.

Now imagine those same young wide receivers playing for a QB that's just as young, has the good looks and charisma of a young Tom Brady and IS fun to play and grow with....you can do that, right?

SF traded Joe friggin' Montana for krissakes...."it's business, Sonny...not personal"- Michael Corleone
 
I do not understand why this DeGaggmee refugee from the Tony Sparano FG offense was EVER brought in for THIS team with THIS QB.
Maybe DeGarbageMo needs to point to the offensive line which direction to go:
sparano-cheers.jpg
 
Difficult to bring Wendell into the conversation as he has not played since the first week...

DeGuglielmo has a pretty good track record for the NY Giants and with the Miami Dolphins, in both instances they were good rushing teams.. he has the pedigree, but no one will ever replace Scar...

As hard I try do not see a conspiracy, Brady is a Pats lifer and unless he chooses differently Mr. Kraft will not allow a trade or similar event... he will be associated with this franchise post retirement, he sold his mansion in California and built a similar on in Boston..

Hear the comments about a "trade" what team wants to give up a high level offensive lineman?? What are you going to give up.. this ain't baseball, no firesales in the NFL.

This team, for some unknown reason, always played to the level of competition... the better the competition the better they seem to play, and versa vica...

Things will get better, but everyone has to pick up their game.. the O line, blocking TE's, Blocking RB's, Brady and the Offensive Scheme... these first down runs need to change.
 
I think Brady still plays at a very high level, and is relatively cost efficient compared to most other NFL quarterbacks (not under a rookie pact). His ability to break down plays and formations likely makes up for any falloff that he is experiencing physically.

Obviously, it's certainly possible. I also think it's possible that they can just be experiencing problems at the offensive line position just as well, though.

Of course, as you point out--why in the hell Marcus Cannon was moved to the L side is beyond me. That is the million dollar question for sure.

They could've just as easily thrown Kline in at LG and still had a line that had weaknesses, but were at least similar to the play of last season; especially when you take into account the fact that Vollmer came back this year.

I think I have some answers to why Cannon went to LG.

Cannon played LT for Solder in a few games at the end of last season. He did a pretty good job of it too. I believe it opened BBs eyes to some possibilities.

BB drafted big Bryan Stork and Big Cam Fleming to rebuild the aging interior OL. I think he intended Fleming to convert to and play RG/RT, where he had always played in college. Scouting reports talked of a G conversion or maybe of him being good enough for RT, but never the possibility of him having the feet or quickness for LT. So RG was the best target for Fleming.

Both Mankins and Connolly are 33, and would soon need replacing and Wendell is just too small, even if he is a tough SOB. I suspect that BB was undecided about replacing all three interior linemen in 2014, or keep Mankins another season to ease the disruption.

Then the Mankins trade opportunity appeared; and BB took it to get a 4th and a Hernandez clone in Tim Wright, the last missing piece on the Offense. Such trade opportunities don't last long, and BB either took it or lost it. it was also consistent with BBs philosophy of "Better a Year too soon, then a Year too late".

BB had retained every one of his incumbent starters in addition to the new mid round picks which is the prime draft location for interior line starters. Just so he could have insurance, if a newcomer proved a total bust. The least likely to bust was the vet Cannon, already acclimated to the Pats and the NFL. So he was the safest guy to convert on Mankins exit.

Plus BB knew he had to give Cannon a starting job or lose him in next season's FA. Why would Cannon agree to stay to be only a reserve swing tackle, when he could be a starter and earn more elsewhere? He was probably the third most talented Offensive lineman, behind Solder and Vollmer.

That was when BB recalled and recognized that Cannon could handle the Left side and would probably be the better pass blocker at LG, just like Mankins. Good pass rushers loop into the LGs world, just about as often as over the LT, now. Having two good pass blockers on Brady's blind side made sense, as well as to let the LT and LG help each other out. On Pulls the LG usually has a longer run, and Cannon's mobility would stand him in good stead.

I think these logical considerations led to Cannon going to LG.

We are seeing the Birthing pains, but an analysis says Brady is already on a sack rate slightly BETTER than last season, 38 versus last season's 40, over 3/16 of a season..
 
Joe Kerr's reaction to BB moves since 2000

"this kid Brady?...over Bledsoe?? Nah!"

"cut Milloy a week before the season? stop lying to me!"

"let the best kicker in franchise history leave over a few bucks? child...please..."

"Ty Law is an All Pro cornerback on a team with Otis Smith and Jagley Q. Jaggerson...please, Law ain't goin' anywhere..."

"Willie? The smartest LB ,clutch performer on the team? To Cleveland?? gotta be a joke"

"Richard Seymour? For WHAT???????????????????...holy krist this can't be real.."

so...not Brady though, eh? Just can't be true, right?

I can't believe that you've succumbed to the mass paranoia. Even if what you predict will eventually come to pass, 2014 isn't the year.

Polo needs some grooming. After all, TB himself needed a full season of grooming too. Tom went to Big Time football power, Michigan. Polo played at a school where football is slightly above Inter Fraternity level. Now we discover that they didn't even have a Playbook. Polo is just not ready.

Meanwhile BB is giving birth to a new generation of Offensive line. We are experiencing the Birthing pains now. But I trust those will pass in a few games. BB is birthing one that is entirely composed of better athletes, judging by their early draft positions and just 20-30 pounds bigger across the line then the current players.

BB is looking forward to not be concerned about being out-sized and Bull rushed any longer; and having a line that can force open holes for the RBs, with a little less scheming being required.
 
[Solid analysis of Cannon's role clipped]...
We are seeing the Birthing pains, but an analysis says Brady is already on a sack rate slightly BETTER than last season, 38 versus last season's 40, over 3/16 of a season..

I'd be interested in seeing the pressure rate or knockdown rate for Brady this year. I suspect it is much higher than last year and that the sack rate is simply a function of Brady's determination to get rid of the ball when the Pats aren't desperate to make a play.
 
...NOBODY gives up a toreador sack and then turns his back on the QB like Solder did to Brady Sunday, leaving Brady on his azz. Krist, the goddamned REF had to help Brady up a couple of times....

I don't know about everything else you said in that reply but I did want to quote one thing you had said....

I found it amazing that when Brady was getting lit up in the backfield all the O-lineman turned their back on him, that was kind of a pizz-off. And on some of those plays our o-line got beat, and it looked like they got beat with 4 man ease. That being said the rest of the line just stood their while Brady was down and did nothing about it....it looked pretty bad.
 
Ohh and in response to people who thing that the D-line can pin their ears back and get at Brady, that may be true as the situation exists today. I would think that, without a doubt, a team that has a strong offensive line would "take a chance" on Brady. Any team that could offer up protection to this caliber a qb, even at his age, would carve up most teams in this league.
 
I'd be interested in seeing the pressure rate or knockdown rate for Brady this year. I suspect it is much higher than last year and that the sack rate is simply a function of Brady's determination to get rid of the ball when the Pats aren't desperate to make a play.

I don't know about pressures, but from looking at the box scores Brady's been hit 14 times so far this season. He was hit 15 times in the first 3 games of 2013. An interesting pattern:

Game 1: 9 hits by the Bills in 2013 (3 sacks), 6 hits by the Dolphins in 2014 (4 sacks)
Game 2: 1 hit by the Jets in 2013 (1 sack), 2 hits by the Vikings in 2014 (1 sack)
Game 3: 6 hits by the Bucs in 2013 (3 sacks), 6 hits by the Raiders in 2014 (2 sacks)

The 2013 line continued to struggle: 2 QB hits and 0 sacks to Atlanta week 4 (week), 8 QB hits and 4 sacks to Cincinnati week 5 (loss), 7 QB hits and 5 sacks to New Orleans week 6 (last minute win), 3 QB hits and 4 sacks to the Jets week 7 (loss), 4 QB hits and 3 sacks to Miami week 8 (win), 6 QB hits and 3 sacks to Pittsburgh week 9 (blowout win), 6 QB hits and 2 sacks to Carolina week 11 (loss), 6 QB hits and 3 sacks to Denver week 12 (OT win), 5 QB hits and 1 sack to Houston week 13 (win), 6 QB hits and 4 sacks to Cleveland week 14 (last minute win), 7 QB hits and 1 sack to Miami week 15 (win), 4 QB hits and 2 sacks to Baltimore week 16 (blowout win), 2 QB hits and 1 sack to Buffalo week 17 (win; Pats with 267 yards rushing and only 24 pass attempts).

Brady got hit a lot last year. Atlanta and Buffalo were probably the 2 best OL games, and rushing the ball effectively and cutting down on Brady's pass attempts definitely helped decrease the amount he got hit.
 
Yikes, Mayo. That doesn't bode well for this team, unless Canon turns out to be better than Mankins and the other players actually improve some.

I've been suspicious of those who say that Mankins' loss is a big part of the pass protection issues, aside from the temporary adjustment period, but based on those starts, it sounds like the Pats losing their best run blocker may indirectly be a big part of the problem in pass protection.
 
It can only get better from here on out, to be 2-1 and tied for 1st in the AFC East considering the issues is not too bad. My apologies to the Debbie Downers...
 
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