Knee jerk reations...

[patfanken]

...and other thoughts for this Sunday.

1. First my own: I am now PISSED at the fact the Pats kept Gutierrez a lost that roster spot. Here's why. HE IS NOT THE QB OF THE FUTURE, any more than Matt Cassel is. The fact is that Tom Brady is our QB of the future...and that's a good thing. OUR QB of the future is still playing in college...or HS. Tom Brady is going to be our QB for the next 5 years... AT LEAST, by that time both Matt Cassel and Gutierrez will be playing for OTHER teams since their rookie contracts will have long past elapsed forcing either a trade or release. For that reason, even if Gutierrez was going to be picked up by another team if waived, he was NEVER going to be a significant player here in NE. A guy like Rogers would have been MUCH more likely to play a significant role on a future Pats roster. Personally I think we outsmarted ourselves......unless.....

....Unless the Pats plan on releasing Matt in a week or so AFTER rosters in the rest of the league are more set in stone, and the likelyhood of Guttierez being added to another team's 53 man roster is decidely decreased. THEN the Pats can make that call to Dante Wesley to get his butt back to the team. In fact I'm willing to bet that when the cut him they told him not to pack his bag or get out of his lease. Just a thought.

2. The Pats are obviously the flavor of the month in the NFL so far. They are the media darlings for good or ill, the focal point of discussions. AND when that is the case you seem to get people either OVERLY trying to tear you down, or build you up.

So within a week the Pats have gone from "team invincible", to that team with a lot of holes. Randy Moss has gone from the guy that put us over the top, to the guy who might get cut. Rodney Harrison has gone from respected leader and character guy, to a performance enhancing cheat. THe Pats DL has gone from the best in the league to one with is sizable hole in it.

So what are we all to make of it. Well first we should enjoy the attention, and then...take it with a grain of salt. There is only ONE indespensible player on the Pats and he's just doing fine (AND the only reason we say he indispensible is because we have never had to play without him. Who knows what we'd find out if it really happened).

As Pat fans we should know that the loss of a good player(s) hurts, but is mitigated by the team as a whole. This team can absorb the loss of a lot of players and still be capable of beating ANY team they face. Think about it, despite the losses of Harrison and Seymour, this Sunday the Pats will have more and better players available than at ANY time last season.

I choose to think that we are capable of going 5-1 over the next 6 games an when that happens we will have a fresher and healther Seymour and Harrison for the stretch run. In fact ANYTHING 4-2 or better means the Pats would have survived the toughest stretch of their schedule and would look forward to a much better team for the last 2 thirds of the season.

3. This Harrison supsension has gotten me thinking. Its not that I'm complaining about the suspention. A rule is a rule. I'm just thinking about the bigger picture. I'm wonder why using HGH to promote healing is any different than using electronic stimulus or cortizone shots.

Now I'm against the use of drugs that would artificially improve a players speed or strength, but in Rodney's instance, I'm led to believe that wasn't the case. So I guess I'm saying...in the future...shouldn't the NFL allow HGH to be used, under a doctor's supervion, as a healing agent (especially in the off season)

Again, this isn't a defense against what happened to Rodney, but rather to initiate a discussion of what constitutes cheating. Or in other words, its not just an issue of the drug, but HOW it is being used. And if its not being used to promote an unfair advantage, why not use it.

I am aware that using HGH for healing purposes, might open a bag worms and lead to potential abuse of the rule, but I think its still worth looking into. Again the key is whether its being used artificially to enhance a players abilities, or more specifically increase strength and speed.

Again, just another issue to discuss.

4. Filed under....and just when you think YOU have it bad, the Cimini blow up occurs in NY and you find out that despite all our complaints, we have it pretty good in NE, at least compared to what other fans have to put up with.

BTW- despite his apologies, the guy should be at least suspended for a time and taken off the football beat. From what I can gather on JI, this isn't an isolated incident. He consistantly puts out poorly written, inaccurate columns. He is lazy and clearly doesn't take the time to research things that are put into his column. Quoting BB as bad mouthing an opposing player is so incredibly out of character for Bill, that he should have KNOW it wasn't true. Plus given the fact that it would have taken about 10 minutes to get and read the ACTUAL comments in King's SI story, only confirms the media puke's laziness.

5. I still like our chances next Sunday....a lot. I just don't see how the Jets OL is going to hold out against the Pats DL/LBs, even without Seymour. In the same respect I don't see how the Jets DL will hold out against the Pats OL in 2 areas. I don't see the Jets shutting down our running game, though I think they will do a decent job. The Pats won't run wild over them, rather it will be an effective enough running game to set up the run.

Conversely I just don't see where the Jets pass rush is going to come rom. Aside from Bryon Thomas the Jets don't have another consistant threat. AND we all know, if Tom Brady has enough time, there are too many options out there for him not to have a huge game, even though he's not really going to be in sync with his WRs until December.

The bottom line is that while this won't be a blow out, by any means, if the TO's are relatively even, the Pats should win in a workmanlike manner

6. For those of you who are unduly concerned about the recent mishaps the Pats have endured the last few days, I would ask to recall that the Pats have gone to 4 superbowls after starting 2-3, 0-2, 1-3, and 2-2 (85, 96, 01, 03). This is a team that will get better as the year goes along, and could very well be a juggernaught when December comes around.

 

[PatriotsRiot93]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

6. For those of you who are unduly concerned about the recent mishaps the Pats have endured the last few days, I would ask to recall that the Pats have gone to 4 superbowls after starting 2-3, 0-2, 1-3, and 2-2 (85, 96, 01, 03). This is a team that will get better as the year goes along, and could very well be a juggernaught when December comes around.

Thanks for the reminder!! :rocker:

 

[amazinPats]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

Another great post from patfanken who tends to think before he posts.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

1. I'm not going to waste time being concerned about who our 3rd string QB is... last year we didn't even have a 3rd string QB at this time of year. I'll trust BB's talent judgement on this one.

2. I don't worry about what the media thinks - ever... not since I was informed in 2003 that all the Patriots "hated" BB.

3. Rodney cheated - and would have not have admitted a thing had he not been caught. But anyone feeling overly righteous about that should know that likely other Patriots, past and present, as well as numerous guys on other teams are cheating the same way. There's little we can do about it.

4. Having lived through the Hugh Millen, Scott Secules generation of Patriots football, I NEVER take this dynasty for granted.

5. I like our chances to win EVERY week.

6. The only reason I see for concern are Seymour, Harrison, and until they prove it on the field, the continued need for a deep threat. If you told me in the offseason that we'd start the season without Harrison and Seymour for 4 and 6 weeks respectively, I'd have reason for concern.

And until the Pats PROVE they have a deep threat, I expect Defenses are going to continue to stack the line as they did so effectively last season.

 

[rabthepat]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

I originally thought we would go 5-1 over the first 6 games. Seymour and Rodney being out doesn't make me lower the 5-1 to 4-2 or 3-3. Our D/L is still solid and Rodney missed alot of games last year. It's the play of our O/L that make me have some concern. To much pressure and hits on Brady. I think the Jets, SD and Dallas will all go after Brady.

If our line plays well then why not 5-1. If they play poorly then why not 3-3.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

3. This Harrison supsension has gotten me thinking. Its not that I'm complaining about the suspention. A rule is a rule. I'm just thinking about the bigger picture. I'm wonder why using HGH to promote healing is any different than using electronic stimulus or cortizone shots.

Now I'm against the use of drugs that would artificially improve a players speed or strength, but in Rodney's instance, I'm led to believe that wasn't the case. So I guess I'm saying...in the future...shouldn't the NFL allow HGH to be used, under a doctor's supervion, as a healing agent (especially in the off season)

Again, this isn't a defense against what happened to Rodney, but rather to initiate a discussion of what constitutes cheating. Or in other words, its not just an issue of the drug, but HOW it is being used. And if its not being used to promote an unfair advantage, why not use it.

I am aware that using HGH for healing purposes, might open a bag worms and lead to potential abuse of the rule, but I think its still worth looking into. Again the key is whether its being used artificially to enhance a players abilities, or more specifically increase strength and speed.

Yes, someone else who gets it. I think HGH suffers from a bad rap because people who abuse steroids often also take HGH, but there are clinical studies out there that state HGH does not increase strength for the user. One gains a modest, almost negligible gain in lean muscle mass, but that gain has no correlation to an increase in strength. One could make the arguement that a HGH user recovers faster and as such can work out longer, harder and more frequently, thus offering an strength and conditioning advantage to the user versus the non-user, but it's really not a performance booster like steroids.

Also, just to rule out any futher flames, I too want to make it clear this is not an excuse for Rodney having broken the existing rule. He broke the rule and the suspension was justified.

Lastly, I posted excerpts of this article in a previous thread a couple days ago. This ESPN article, if nothing else, raises questions and prompts the reader to reexamine the issue outside the realm of polemics.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2574291&type=story

 

[rabthepat]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

1. I'm not going to waste time being concerned about who our 3rd string QB is... last year we didn't even have a 3rd string QB at this time of year. I'll trust BB's talent judgement on this one.

2. I don't worry about what the media thinks - ever... not since I was informed in 2003 that all the Patriots "hated" BB.

3. Rodney cheated - and would have not have admitted a thing had he not been caught. But anyone feeling overly righteous about that should know that likely other Patriots, past and present, as well as numerous guys on other teams are cheating the same way. There's little we can do about it.

4. Having lived through the Hugh Millen, Scott Secules generation of Patriots football, I NEVER take this dynasty for granted.

5. I like our chances to win EVERY week.

6. The only reason I see for concern are Seymour, Harrison, and until they prove it on the field, the continued need for a deep threat. If you told me in the offseason that we'd start the season without Harrison and Seymour for 4 and 6 weeks respectively, I'd have reason for concern.

And until the Pats PROVE they have a deep threat, I expect Defenses are going to continue to stack the line as they did so effectively last season.

Great point on #2.

 

[Jimke]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

The Pats aren't looking for Tom Brady's replacement. They are seeking a possible replacement for Matt Cassel if he walks after next year. I think that it is good judgment to start training someone now instead of wasting another year.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

If Cassell "walks", we will use the 1st rounder we get to trade for or draft a backup QB.

The Pats aren't looking for Tom Brady's replacement. They are seeking a possible replacement for Matt Cassel if he walks after next year. I think that it is good judgment to start training someone now instead of wasting another year.

 

[KoolAidDrinker]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

I too am optimistic, in spite of the early "turmoil" with Rodney and Richard.

This is a tough schedule especially early on. But I have high hopes that Brady and this vastly more talented receiver corps can get rolling quickly.

As the season progresses, I think this team will be VERY hard to beat.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

It is not just a small joy in life to know my team has a chance to beat anyone on any given Sunday, Monday, Thursday, Saturday...you get the picture. But I think having two of our very best defensive players (two of the best in entire NFL) will make it harder to succeed - how could it not?

Rodney's suspension costs us one game, minimum. I sure hope it's not the SD game because losing that game might cost us home field advantage. Sanders will have to play the game of his life for the Pats to survive SD unless TB and Co. go nutty and score 40 points.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

As much as some of us would prefer Justin Rogers to be taking the spot that you say Gutierrez took, Ken, that spot was available for Rogers even with Gutierrez on the 53. So I'm not sure that's as direct an either/or hypothetical as your post insinuates or, at least, calls for.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

If Cassell "walks", we will use the 1st rounder we get to trade for or draft a backup QB.

First round picks are spent by BB/SP on starters not a guy to hold Brady's clipboard.

 

[psychoPat]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

Thanks for the article!
Edited excerpts:

Most of the research on HGH has been done on the elderly, not elite athletes, but studies have shown that while the drug might grow the size of a muscle, it is not associated with a spike in strength. In a 2004 review of the literature that was published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine and written as a guide for team doctors, the authors concluded that "there is no evidence that growth hormone supplementation will lead to an increase in performance."

....

One of the chief actions of IGF-1 is that it stokes the creation of cartilage and bone, a benefit that has not gone unnoticed by athletes and orthopedists. Injected, synthetic HGH has the same effect.

"I've seen a whole spectrum from professional athletes in all sports, down to college and even high school players that have been on growth hormone," said Dr. Rick Delamarter, a Los Angeles spine surgeon and UCLA professor who has treated scores of big-name athletes. "I have seen the benefits of growth hormone post-operatively in recovering from surgery."

Delamarter said he does not prescribe growth hormone to his patients, as surgical rehabilitation is not one of three approved uses .... But he does not discourage its use as he has not seen, in his anecdotal experience, a detrimental response to growth hormone. And recovery periods are sometimes cut in half.

"If the science proves that it's efficacious and safe in the post-operative recovery period," he said, "then I think it becomes a standard of care for sports medicine and surgeons."

....

Indeed, the line between sports medicine and performance enhancement is already far muddier than we like to acknowledge. If a pitcher extends his career an extra five years via the use of growth hormone, but gains no extra zip on his fastball, does that constitute a performance advantage? Any more than Tommy John surgery that tightens up the band in his elbow?

....

 

[Mike the Brit]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

Thanks for the article!
Edited excerpts:

Most of the research on HGH has been done on the elderly, not elite athletes, but studies have shown that while the drug might grow the size of a muscle, it is not associated with a spike in strength. In a 2004 review of the literature that was published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine and written as a guide for team doctors, the authors concluded that "there is no evidence that growth hormone supplementation will lead to an increase in performance."

.... One of the chief actions of IGF-1 is that it stokes the creation of cartilage and bone, a benefit that has not gone unnoticed by athletes and orthopedists. Injected, synthetic HGH has the same effect.

"I've seen a whole spectrum from professional athletes in all sports, down to college and even high school players that have been on growth hormone," said Dr. Rick Delamarter, a Los Angeles spine surgeon and UCLA professor who has treated scores of big-name athletes. "I have seen the benefits of growth hormone post-operatively in recovering from surgery."


Delamarter said he does not prescribe growth hormone to his patients, as surgical rehabilitation is not one of three approved uses .... But he does not discourage its use as he has not seen, in his anecdotal experience, a detrimental response to growth hormone. And recovery periods are sometimes cut in half.

"If the science proves that it's efficacious and safe in the post-operative recovery period," he said, "then I think it becomes a standard of care for sports medicine and surgeons."

....
Indeed, the line between sports medicine and performance enhancement is already far muddier than we like to acknowledge. If a pitcher extends his career an extra five years via the use of growth hormone, but gains no extra zip on his fastball, does that constitute a performance advantage? Any more than Tommy John surgery that tightens up the band in his elbow?

....

I took the following from this article:

Why would an athlete take HGH?

• To increase muscle size. The ability of growth hormone to enhance performance has not been documented. However, athletes have been known to use growth hormone in combination with testosterone-based solutions that can add strength to those larger muscles. It also allows tired muscles to recover faster -- allowing you to train harder and more often.

Are there any side effects?

• If a body has too much HGH, a condition can result called acromegaly, a disease that causes the hands to become spade-like in appearance as they get bigger. Growth of the facial bones causes the face to change shape, too.
• Organs such as the heart, liver and kidneys also undergo excessive growth, leading to potentially life-threatening problems.
• Accelerated cell growth also increases the risk for cancers


And this:

The leagues have no interest in asking their athletes to bleed -- at least for a drug test. An NFL executive called the blood test "ineffective and unreliable," a contention disputed by Dr. Gary Wadler, a WADA consultant. Wadler said that what the NFL is "really saying is, in essence, you can use [HGH] with impunity."


It would be nice to think that New England fans would react to the Rodney case as Canadians did to Ben Johnson and Germans to Jan Ulrich (contrast Lance Armstrong).

 

[patfanken]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

As much as some of us would prefer Justin Rogers to be taking the spot that you say Gutierrez took, Ken, that spot was available for Rogers even with Gutierrez on the 53. So I'm not sure that's as direct an either/or hypothetical as your post insinuates or, at least, calls for.

That's why they call it a "knee jerk reaction". Actually for this year I would rather have Wesley than Rogers, however for the long term I would have loved to Rogers on the PS this year.

In reality we have Woods and Alexander that are about to come into their own over the next couple of year, and I believe we will finally look at a college LB early in the draft next year.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

That's why they call it a "knee jerk reaction". Actually for this year I would rather have Wesley than Rogers, however for the long term I would have loved to Rogers on the PS this year.

In reality we have Woods and Alexander that are about to come into their own over the next couple of year, and I believe we will finally look at a college LB early in the draft next year.

Maybe, but we still have Cory Mays.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

Then he won't go anywhere. Cassell will be an RFA. The patriots will certainly tender him enough to require any team signing him to give us the right to match and at least a first if we don't.

First round picks are spent by BB/SP on starters not a guy to hold Brady's clipboard.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

It would be nice to think that New England fans would react to the Rodney case as Canadians did to Ben Johnson and Germans to Jan Ulrich (contrast Lance Armstrong).

Well, clearly HGH is not steroids and as such Rodney is not Ben Johnson or Jan Ulrich. I susupect that with the latter, one can argue semantics that it was blood plasma, but even at that, the heart of the doping scandal involved anabolic steroids.

Also, I'm somewhat baffled as to how you'd like the New England fans to react. The overwhelming majority have stated that Rodney broke the rules, was wrong and warranted the four game suspension. No one is making excuses for him. However, there is a difference between HGH and steroids which many of us feel the league needs to address.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Knee jerk reations.....

Then he won't go anywhere. Cassell will be an RFA. The patriots will certainly tender him enough to require any team signing him to give us the right to match and at least a first if we don't.

Cassel is signed through the end of 2008, so he shouldn't be an RFA next year.