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Kiwanuka anyone?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by tatepatsfan, Apr 15, 2006.

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  1. tatepatsfan

    tatepatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    In the second? I am thinking he might be available at our 2nd round pick with the way he is falling. Could he play OLB in the 3-4? Just an idea.
  2. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I'd take him at #21 as an OLB. If he dropped past #35 in the second I'd trade up for him. I think he's getting knocked for playing injured last year and the team that picks him will get an eventual all-pro.
  3. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    no way he drops to 52

    has anyone heard a GM or coach assess him as a 2nd rounder?

    only mocks and draft pundits have discredited him to my knowledge

    I wouldn't be surprised to see any of the following teams make a move on him in the 1st:

    Cleveland
    New England
    NYJ
    Denver
    Dallas
    Minn
    STL
  4. PonyExpress

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    Fungi,
    I believe we are brothers in arms on this one. However, the folly of NFL GMs knows no bounds. It wouldn't surprise me at all if based on poor research and 17 reps on the bench he drops to #52. That's why the Pats keep beating the snot out of everyone year after year. Who is Kiwi's agent? I'm amazed he's allowing his client to take such unjustified public abuse. Maybe Kiwi's already been told he'll be drafted by someone and that he should keep quiet.
  5. Box_O_Rocks

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    I looked back on his stats and you can see how he was slowed by injury this season. Unfortunately, he was also hurt in the Senior Bowl practice and didn't play, I had no chance to watch him and get a feel for his OLB potential. Based on the stats, I'd consider him early second, if I'd seen him play I might bump him up, but not having a clue as to his OLB skills, I can't project him as a value pick for NE.
  6. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Is he still injured? Hard to pick an injured player. Don't they have films of his junior year?

    I've heard he has good character and talent but is limited in pass rush moves.

    Maybe trade to the end of the 1st and take him there.

    He has the same build roughtly as McGinnest.
  7. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    My argument for why Kiwanuka can be a 3-4 OLB:

    If you watch him play, against BYU for instance, it is baffling how much the DC tasked him with dropping into coverage on passing downs. At the time I considered it questionable coaching, especially considering his pass rushing skills. In retrospect, it provided an opportunity to watch him in space. To my eyes he looked very comfortable. A look at his agility times from the combine illustrates this when compared with 13 top Linebacker prospects in the draft.
    40 time 20sh 60sh 3-cone
    Kiwanuka(266) 4.70 4.13 11.65 7.27
    Greenway(242) 4.78 4.22 NA 7.01
    Hawk (248) 4.59 3.96 11.06 6.82
    Sims(234) 4.50 4.22 11.62 7.31
    D. Jackson(230) 4.70 4.36 11.89 7.05
    Hodge(233) 4.80 4.30 11.69 7.09
    Howard(239) 4.41 4.28 11.22 6.96
    Lawson(241) 4.43 4.18 11.08 6.90
    Wimbley(248) 4.61 4.42 11.74 6.97
    MacIntosh(237) 4.63 4.20 NA 7.32
    Nicholson(242) 4.74 4.43 12.4 7.34
    Wilkinson(231) 4.62 4.08 11.81 7.21
    Ryans(236) 4.65 4.17 12.08 7.19

    I included the players weights in parentheses by their name. Kiwanuka was competitive in the 40 (tied with DJackson), 3rd in the 20 yard shuttle, 5th in the 60 yard shuttle, and 10th in the 3 cone drill. Meanwhile he outweighed everyone by at least 18 lbs (Wimbley) and most of the LBers by 30 lbs. This tells me he has the athleticism to play the 3-4 OLB position. Instincts are another question. But with his attitude, pass rushing skills, size, coachability and enthusiasm to learn the 3-4 I see an excellent candidate: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...ior bowl 3-4 defense&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
  8. PonyExpress

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  9. Box_O_Rocks

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    Good info, I like him at #21 much better seeing this and hearing that he was dropping into coverage for BC.
  10. mavfan2390

    mavfan2390 Rookie

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    I'd rather have Manny Lawson man.
  11. PonyExpress

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    I'd be happy with Manny also.
  12. BelichickFan

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    Lawson is interesting but Kiwi comes to us 25 pounds heavier - that's 25 pounds that Lawson would have to put on to play McGinest's spot, right now he is Colvin.
  13. Patsfanin Philly

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  14. BelichickFan

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    Wonderful. Although the sticking point with him was # of years and the 6 year option is gone for us now, in our current position.

    Pro Football Weekly's book says he doesn't always play hard and go all out - I don't watch B.C., is this true ? I love his size, long arms, athleticism and character. Don't forget the long arms, Belichick loves his guys to get their arms up to knock down passes or disrupt passing lanes.
  15. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    I can say that, in every BC game I saw, he was extremely active even while being double and triple teamed.

    Kiwanuka is going to make an impact in the NFL--I just hope he ends up with a coach that knows how to develop him. Aside from the Belichick and Parcells trees, that number is pretty low--I think Fisher, Lovie Smith, Cowher, Dungy, Reid and Lewis...so less than half the league IMO has sufficient quality coaching to optimize a defensive rookie's upside (Kiwanuka int his example).
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2006
  16. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    I just look at the rest of BC's defense and imagine how he'd be with some complementary DL talent and some pro-level coaching. I feel very strongly that he'd flourish with the right combination, and that the current opening at Elephant in NE is a darn close fit.

    So yeah--he'd look good in a Patriots uniform, but I still think he's being overlooked and will succeed in the NFL regardless of where he ends up.
  17. PonyExpress

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    Kiwanuka did seem to float at times this year. I attribute most of this to playing with an injured outside knee (his push leg for a pass rusher). In some games he probably shouldn’t have been playing at all, but his presence on the field boosted his teammates’ confidence and forced offenses to scheme against him, helping BC’s overall play. Floater or no, he still had the 2nd most sacks of anyone playing Division I football over the last two years and had the most tackles for loss against the run of any DE in Div I football over the last two years. If that’s floating, it’s the Muhammad Ali kind.;)
  18. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    I also want to mention that he was considered a 1st round pick last year but opted to stick around for his senior year. If you look at any early mocks for this year he is a Top 15 pick. The fact that no one is talking about him makes me think that he is on somebody's radar in the middle 1st.
  19. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    While this is true, it is true about any player's status in the draft, rising, fallilng or steady.

    We only have pundits to use for information. GMs and coaches are not out there telling that this guy or any guy is dropping on their board, or why they are salivating over the prospect of getting any given player. Even Houston is talking to Mario.

    I would love to see where NFL coaches and GMs have Kinwanuka and others on their draft board, but it ain't gonna happen.

    Besides, while some teams have a big scouting department, Patriots and Ravens for example, other teams rely heavily on scouting services for their information.
  20. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Fungi,
    Kirwan has Kiwanuka at #23 overall. Kirwan is somewhat connected and likely made a few calls before his mock. I am not saying he had the right team, but his guess at to Kiwi's value on the board is probably close.
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9378806
    On the otherhand, Gosselin is the most accurate mocker of all (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/top100/index.shtml) and he doesn't have Kiwi in the first round (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon.../stories/041606dnsponflmockdraft.1e330dc.html). I still say, when push comes to shove, accomplished pass rushers are the most coveted players in the draft after franchise QBs, and Kiwi won't drop out of Rd 1.
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