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Kiper: Patriots Reached on Day Two

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  1. PatsFans.com Article

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    Kiper: Patriots Reached on Day Two
    By: Derek Havens

    ESPN's NFL draft guru Mel Kiper, Jr, released his Day Two: Winners And Questions on Friday night and had some thoughts on the Patriots selections. Here is what Kiper had to say. ...

  2. DarrylS

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    What Kiper should have said, "It was pretty embarassing on national TV, and I did not know shyt about Tavon Wilson, while ruffling through his papers and notebooks with a red face".
  3. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    Can't blame him, even Illinois students don't know who Tavon is.
  4. goheels22002

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    I think he was drafted to take over for Belichick in the post game pressers. Here's five minutes with reporters in which you could put a cardboard cutout of Belichick and let the tape roll.

    DB Tavon Wilson Interview 11/15 - YouTube
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    Fighting Illini Fan Poll: Who is Tavon Wilson?

    Most recent name for Artist formerly known as Prince: 12%
    Most recent name for Artist formerly known as Ron Artest: 6%
    Defensive back for the fighting Illini: 4%

    And of course...

    "That kid in Florida": 78%
  6. PatsFanInVa

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    Holy crap you're right... don't even put the cut-out there, the best match is the "thoughtful mumbling introvert" faces. Eerie similarity, like how Kennedy's secretary drove a Ford, Gerald Ford drove a Lincoln, and Lincoln was shot in Ford's Theatre, or something.

    I can just see the footage surfacing when Bill and Tavon joyfully shook hands after the pick...

    "Coach Belichick, any time you're in a draft, you always want to go high, and of course, that's part of, that's part of the draft day, and of course you go out there and try to have the best draft day you can, but I think it's a testament, you know, when you're drafting, to the team that sees that value and moves quickly on it...."

    "Well, you know Tavon, we think you're a special player, we saw some plays on the tape that were pretty good and some we'd like have back, you know, we have to work on, and hopefully whenever you're evaluating a prospect, you hope he has more of those good ones...."

    "Well Coach, that's for those guys to write about. Any time you're shaking the Coach's hand the first time obviously you're happy, and that's a very special moment."

    Simultaneously
    "It is what it is. Now it's time to get ready for rookie minicamp."
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well old Mel "just for men' Kiper said L Mankins was a reach. That makes me like this pick.
  8. resdubwhite

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    There is a reason for the Wilson pick.

    We just don't know it yet.

    I'm going with coaches instincts here.
  9. RhodyPatriot

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    Tom Curran says the Patriots could have taken this player in the later rounds because he still would have been available. If they were going to trade their other 2nd round pick they could have gotten this kid with the 3rd rounder or even the 5th. Would hate to think they passed on a better DL or OL prospect at 48 to reach for a player they could have gotten in the 5th round.
    Ouch!
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    ResDub's right to drink the koolaid, being serious for a minute. BB/Pats staff know more than Tom Curran. But that ruins the draft for everybody else. He was a second round prospect, and the draft media called it wrong, ultimately. Know why? Someone drafted him in the second round (in this case, us.)
  11. resdubwhite

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    Most people are rubbishing this pick right now.

    I'll make judgement when he sees the field.
  12. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    But then again......Wheatley, butler.......the trend continues
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    Oh yeah, it's a given that some draftees never pan out. I'm still excited to see what we get out of Me, Myself, and Ras-I. By the way I have no way of knowing whether he's in some way selfish or not, I just hope he is so I can use that nickname on him. But then again, I'm still excited to see Chad Jackson reach his full potential. On the other side, I'm over my cynicism about the Gronkowski/Hernandez double-dip, know what I'm sain?

    Truth is we just don't know d1ck until years later. But hell, there's no football for months and this is the only thing broadcast with the NFL logo anywhere in evidence. Ring the bell, the dog slobbers, what can I say.
  14. Uncle Rico

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  15. State

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    When analyzing the seemingly strange second round for the Patriots--taking a player ranked as a Day Three guy at 48 and trading down for poor value--one needs to pay attention in future years not just to the play of Tavon Wilson, assuming he plays, which I think he will, but the play of the talented guys available at 48 that we passed on.

    Like UConn's Reyes, the defensive lineman, taken at 49. Or another DB like Oklahoma's Jamell Fleming, another perfect fit for the Patriots.

    I'm convinced taking another Wilson DB from Illinois wasn't merely a reach, it was a panic move. We totally screwed over the Ravens again in the first round by taking Hightower whom they obviously coveted, and perhaps Bill was worried that another team was going to do the same to us with Wilson.

    I just think it was going to happen that high in the draft.

    The probability is very high--of course impossible to prove--that Wilson is there for us at 62--or well beyond.

    Wilson was a need pick but taken earlier than he needed to be. And I'm worried that Belichick is starting to internalize his own press about being a genius.

    It's possible everyone was wrong about Wilson. It's possible teams had him ranked much higher than we were led to believe. Having in for a visit, as seven teams are reported to have done, shows a possible interest.

    But I believe Belichick likes to stir the pot. I think he enjoyed seeing The Hair (Mel Kiper) rendered speechless. I know Ron Zook from my own sources thinks very highly of the player selected.

    And yet...it was a reach. Better players were available for us at 48. And Belichick made a mistake, which I think will be proven in the next few years.

    Chandler Jones--Dont'a Hightower--Kendall Reyes/Jamell Fleming. That's what we should have done. It hurts that we didn't get a better player at 48. If I'm wrong, it's likely the Patriots were in taking Wilson when he would very likely have around at 62.

    But since the Patriots were apparently not going to keep 62, as events turned out, they were forced to go for the reach and take a player at an obvious HUGE need, safety.

    Grade C. Same as Pete Prisco.
  16. DarrylS

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    Not sure that I have ever seen a pundit say "I was wrong", just not part of their venacular.... even if they are wrong, they will qualify it somehow.

    The jury is out on Wilson, but give the kid a chance... great story and these kids rapidly become my favorite players. The Patriots had to see something in him... there have been a lot more hits than misses since Pioli defected.

    Grading drafts is nothing more than a guessing game, as no one really knows until about their 20th game.. then the marking period should end.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  17. State

    State Rookie

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    Not as analogous as the groupies here would like us to believe.

    Yes, both players were not Combine invitees.

    But Vollmer was LT on the pass-happy Houston team with the measurables. He came from Germany as a rugby player. Very non-traditional.

    Tavon Wilson played in one of the most visible conferences in the country. He was a high school player here in the states. Well, DC, but you get the picture.

    And he still wasn't an invite to anything other than his team's pro day workout and various personal workouts.

    Vollmer was a find. Wilson may be a diamond in the rough. But I think he'll just be the rough.
  18. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Yup

    ....and in 1941, Ted Williams sucked because he failed to hit safely 6 out of 10 at bats.

    Illegal Contact.....poster child for when patsfans.com lets in the blind squirrel who thinks the sun came up because he went looking for a nut....and stepped in it.:confused:

    The only to avoid a bust is to never draft
    If you don't get invited to the combine, you can't "shoot up the board".
    Why wasn't Vollmer invited to the combine?

    Per the ESPN interview, it appears this kid was targeted for a specific reason.

    If that's what the braintrust targeted, it's "successful".
  19. Patriot 37

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    Exactly what I was thinking. Volmer and Mankins were reaches and Butler and Jackson were steals. You won't know for 3 years anyway.
  20. convertedpatsfan

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    BB is pretty obsessed with value so it seems like a strange pick, but we don't know the whole story. There could have been interest from another team.

    It was the same reaction when we drafted Vollmer. No one knew him but several teams had him high on their boards, including Baltimore (though they didn't pursue him after drafting Oher in the first). Others had him as a UDFA.

    It was the same deal when the Raiders drafted Mike Mitchell in the second round and the draft gurus were all talking about how they could have waited a few roundss, until news came out that Chicago was targeting him two picks later, leading to Mayock apologizing to the Raiders.

    Mayock mentioned that while most teams had Mitchell as a UDFA, another had him as a 3rd-rounder as well, so value is incredibly subjective especially when you factor in systems.

    Bottom line is if you want the kid, and you know others value him similarly despite what the draft gurus may think, and you think he's worth more than the others available, it's not a reach.

    Vollmer turned out to be great. Mitchell not so much. But the decision making behind both was sound despite what the talking heads thought at the time. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I'll trust BB's judgment over Curran and Kiper any day of the week.
  21. BritPat

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    I love reading the words "Mel Kiper; Draft Guru".

    He's absolutely nothing of the sort.
  22. randomk1

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    Hard to disagree with that. Hope the best for him but that pick at that spot is mind-boggling
  23. State

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    Kiper is right on this one. Hey, a stopped clock and all that...

    But do you guys realize how dysfunctional the Illinois football team was the last few years with Ron Zook at the helm? Four guys taken in the first 48 picks this year after they went 2-6 in the weak Big Ten. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...now-rest-draft-2-picks-page3.html#post3029812

    The team captain of the dysfunctional and underperforming Fighting Illini had only two INTs in his career.

    The league coaches considered him not to be even an honorable mention all Big Ten player. Only the mediacritters did, which is telling.
  24. brdmaverick

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    So let's recap....We eat it up when the media talks about how great our first round was, but we dismiss them as idiots when they question our second round picks.

    Sure, we hope that Belichick turns a frog into a prince, but we would all be laughing right now if the Jets made this pick.
  25. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    Sorry buddy, you need to speak for yourself here.

    The Mediots comments mean nothing to me.
  26. robertweathers

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    The question isn't about if Wilson will become a good player.

    The question is about could they have snatched him up in later rounds as (we assume). It seems that the general consensus is that they could have had him in the later rounds and use the pick on a OL, better athlete as a DB, etc.

    However, I also think the Pats have proven that they do a good job of scouting other teams and projecting the needs of other teams.

    My only conclusion is that the Pats felt another team or two really liked Wilson as much as they did and were also willing to "reach" for him as well.
  27. Nunchucks

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    So, I keep on reading that Wilson is meh in coverage, yet he is a converted CB. That really doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    Anyhow, the pick is a head scratcher, Belichick thinks he is the smartest guy int he room with this one, I am not sure he is gonna prove it. But, I am willing to give it him a chance.

    Heck, if the guy returned punts and kicks, i would understand it more, but a gunner? WTF
  28. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    IF Wilson does become a good player does it really matter where we picked him?
  29. State

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    I'm all for giving the kid a chance. No one disputes that. We wish the best of the players selected and the team's performance.

    We just question the value of taking the player when we did.

    And I know I'm not alone wishing that kid were New England native Kendall Reyes at 48. Talk about a fan favorite, Darry!
  30. Nunchucks

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    Would you have taken Tom Brady in the first round, knowing what you know now or would you still wait till the 6th?
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