Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez [merged]

[Sicilian]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

Wow. Well if we get that great but I think you're whistling in the wind right there.

Depends on a few things:

- How many teams are bidding?

- How good to the Chiefs expect to be next year?

- How has the QB market changed since the Matt Schaub deal?

Matt Schaub netted two 2nd's, pretty much based on a handful of mildly impressive games. If the market is similar, and we get a couple teams bidding (especially division rivals like Chicago and Minnesota), I fully expect to get more for Cassel.

If the Chiefs think they're going to be at least .500 next year, you're talking about a great 2nd rounder and a pick in the 15-20 range next year. I think that's reasonable if the other factors are true.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

Depends on a few things:

- How many teams are bidding?

- How good to the Chiefs expect to be next year?

- How has the QB market changed since the Matt Schaub deal?

I agree. All it takes is one but I don't see it. If we come away with a high #2 I'll be happy. Anything more is gravy for me.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

I agree. All it takes is one but I don't see it. If we come away with a high #2 I'll be happy. Anything more is gravy for me.

If we get a two, I'll be indifferent until I see who we draft and he has a few years to show what he's got. I feel good about our 1st round track record, but once we hit the second (and this is true of most teams) it becomes a crap shoot.

For example, I would not trade Matt Cassel for Chad Jackson right now... oh no, what have I done... lock the thread quick!

 

[Seneschal2]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

A very strong endorsement for Cassel by Kiper. Even before Mel's statement, Cassel was worth a first rounder -- and now...

There may be more Cassel suitors then I'm listing, but just for conversation sake, let's say these 5 teams are interested (by draft order):

#3 KC - would ask for their #2 this draft (#34) and #2 in 2010. Won't ask Pioli for any first rounder. Evaluation of Thigpen is the key here.

#10 SF - won't ask for their 1st, but want their #2 (#43) this draft and #2 in 2010. Throw in another pick if necessary. But are they gun shy after the Mayo trade?

#19 TB - their 1st this draft and #2 or #3 in 2010.

#20 DETROIT - same deal as TB. Allows them to keep the #1 pick in the draft, while getting their starting QB. Why on earth would they not be interested (oops - I forgot ).

#22 MINN - same deal as TB and Det. The Vikings have a 5th round pick named John David Booty, like Cassel, also a former USC QB.

• Personal preference is to not deal w/ the Jets or Browns
• Any additions/subtractions from those 5 -- please comment

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

A very strong endorsement for Cassel by Kiper. Even before Mel's statement, Cassel was worth a first rounder -- and now...

There may be more Cassel suitors then I'm listing, but just for conversation sake, let's say these 5 teams are interested (by draft order):

#3 KC - would ask for their #2 this draft (#34) and #2 in 2010. Won't ask Pioli for any first rounder. Evaluation of Thigpen is the key here.

#10 SF - won't ask for their 1st, but want their #2 (#43) this draft and #2 in 2010. Throw in another pick if necessary. But are they gun shy after the Mayo trade?

#19 TB - their 1st this draft and #2 or #3 in 2010.

#20 DETROIT - same deal as TB. Allows them to keep the #1 pick in the draft, while getting their starting QB. Why on earth would they not be interested (oops - I forgot ).

#22 MINN - same deal as TB and Det. The Vikings have a 5th round pick named John David Booty, like Cassel, also a former USC QB.

• Personal preference is to not deal w/ the Jets or Browns
• Any additions/subtractions from those 5 -- please comment

I think we could get more from San Fran. Either their 2 this year and a 1 next year (sometimes valued like a 2 this year), or the #10 overall and a 3rd. The only thing that would prevent them from giving us their 1 this year is fan reaction. We'd be taking their top 10 pick two years in a row

 

[patchick]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

Think of it this way: given their choice today, wouldn't every exec in the league take either Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco over Sanchez and Stafford? Why? Because Ryan and Flacco have just as much athletic potential but have actually proven themselves in the NFL, right? Well then.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Kiper likes Cassel over Stafford and Sanchez, no contest.

I don't disagree, but Bill seems a little tough to predict on this stuff.

I think in Bill's mind he's keeping him until a knock-out offer shows up. Makes planning easier. And I fully expect that knock-out offer to appear.

true, but the bottom line is that if they keep cassel, they can't fix other problems

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

Think of it this way: given their choice today, wouldn't every exec in the league take either Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco over Sanchez and Stafford? Why? Because Ryan and Flacco have just as much athletic potential but have actually proven themselves in the NFL, right? Well then.

And with high draft pick QBs, the money is going to be similar (if not higher for the unproven).

 

[ayjackson]

Re: Kiper likes Cassel over Stafford and Sanchez, no contest.

You'd think a draftnik like Kiper would know that Cutler wasn't in the same draft class with smith, campbell and rogers (and cassel).

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Kiper likes Cassel over Stafford and Sanchez, no contest.

You'd think a draftnik like Kiper would know that Cutler wasn't in the same draft class with smith, campbell and rogers (and cassel).

I think that is why he seperated him from the group but I think he was saying it because of who is coaching Cutler now.

 

[juxtapoz15]

Re: Kiper likes Cassel over Stafford and Sanchez, no contest.

You'd think a draftnik like Kiper would know that Cutler wasn't in the same draft class with smith, campbell and rogers (and cassel).

I don't think he is suggesting that Cutler is in the same class as the other guys, more along the lines that he would also take Cassel over another young QB taken in the first round (Cutler).

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

Matt Schaub was worth two #2s. There's no doubt in my mind that Cassel is worth a first and a second.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

On the one hand, some more praise:

“He looked like he should have been a No. 1 pick overall in the draft,” Kiper said. “It’s amazing. To watch him play this year, you’d have thought, ‘Hey, if he had been the No. 1 pick in the draft, people would have been very happy with the way he’s playing right now.’ …

OTOH, he also said this:

There is a reason the Patriots are willing to give Cassel the one-year, $14.65-million contract that comes with the franchise tag, and it isn’t just his play in 2008. Brady’s health is uncertain.

“They did it because they need him because of Brady’s situation there, so I don’t necessarily see that happening,” Kiper said. “They’re not interested in writing off a year if there’s an issue with Tom Brady.

“If I were Detroit or Kansas City, yeah, I would make that move in a heartbeat. But he’s not available right now, and he may never be available this year. Maybe next year he is, but I think this year he’s a hefty insurance in New England.”

Source.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

“If I were Detroit or Kansas City, yeah, I would make that move in a heartbeat. But he’s not available right now, and he may never be available this year. Maybe next year he is, but I think this year he’s a hefty insurance in New England.”

Pats know better than I do, but I just don't see them tying up that much money in a backup for one position. QB is very important, but I just feel like that money can and will be better spent.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

I trust all these deal require that Cassel and the team agree to terms of a new agreement as part of the trade or in a separate document signed at the same time.

We continue to speak as if the bidding is with the patriots.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

If nothing else, Mel Kiper is a voice that matters, to varying degrees, in NFL circles and fan-bases alike. He is, rightly or not, considered an authority on the draft, college prospects and NFL personnel matters (kinda), generally. The fact that he has added his voice to a growing-ish chorus of people pimping Matt Cassel is significant. Of course the vast majority of NFL personnel guys will make their decision based on a million things besides Mel Kiper and fan-base reaction - game-tape, talent, arm-strength, vision, instinct, age, maturity, experience, clutch, whatever. Having said that...

In some small, but I think possibly meaningful, way, Mel Kiper has helped push the chains further toward the Patriots getting better value for MC. And he has given some of the lesser, dumber owner/GM teams a bit of cover with their fans if they do indeed decide to roll the dice on trading with New England.

Again, not to overstate it: I think the professionals who run football teams make their decisions based on a host of issues that don't involve Bal'more accents and noteworthy hairdos, but I also think Kiper's comments legitimize the Patriots' hand, and that can be only good.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

personally, I think Kiper's opinions are worthless up until like a week before the draft when actual NFL people have influenced his decisions. Like... he probably thought Andre Woodson was going to be a superstar last February.

Schaub was easily worth two 2s ... especially considering the alternative was to draft JMarcus or Quinn. Or John Beck or Kolb.

 

[crowell33]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

personally, I think Kiper's opinions are worthless up until like a week before the draft when actual NFL people have influenced his decisions. Like... he probably thought Andre Woodson was going to be a superstar last February.

Schaub was easily worth two 2s ... especially considering the alternative was to draft JMarcus or Quinn. Or John Beck or Kolb.

Disagree strongly. I have subscribed to Mel Kipers annual draft guides, which are printed well before the draft, for over a decade. While his picks were not as strong as Joel Buschbaums ( Rest in Peace ) he none the less has a very strong historical track record.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Re: Kiper: Cassel over Stafford, Sanchez

Pats will get 2009 high 2nd round and 2010 1st. Book it.

 

[mesoslo]

Re: Kiper likes Cassel over Stafford and Sanchez, no contest.

I just don't see a situation where he and his new salary would fit on the pats with the other needs the pats have......I look at it this way......what's the point of having cassel for insurance if the pats won't be able to help their defense? using the draft for defense is great, but the pats will need some more immediate upgrades in order to contend next year

keeping cassel both eats cap space and prevent getting anything for him.....just doesnt make sense to me

Even if they trade cassel, is it a sure thing that they will sign a big money FA on defense or even offense? Iam sure other teams will try to outbid them for talented FAs.
I would rather have Cassel.