King: Tebow a good fit for the Pats?

[ivanvamp]

I am already tired of Tebow, his self righteousness and the Favre-like worship bestowed upon him.

What self righteousness? Seriously. Care to elaborate?

 

[ivanvamp]

I'm not sure on Tebow. He seems like a kid of genuine character, but his "pro-life ant-abortion" commercial seems a bit religion extremist to me (for reference I am in favour of the woman's right to choose). I'm not much a fan of extremism as in my experience, it leads to divides and holy-than-thou mentality sooner or later.

Just an unbelievable thing to say, frankly. He's pro-life, probably due in part for moral and religious reasons, but probably in large part because he was *nearly aborted himself*!! He has very good personal reasons for being pro-life, wouldn't you say? Geez.

By the way, more Americans are pro-life than pro-choice (see: More Americans ?Pro-Life? Than ?Pro-Choice? for First Time). I'd say a view that the majority of Americans favors is hardly "extremist".

Let's keep the analysis of Tebow to his football, ok?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Just an unbelievable thing to say, frankly. He's pro-life, probably due in part for moral and religious reasons, but probably in large part because he was *nearly aborted himself*!! He has very good personal reasons for being pro-life, wouldn't you say? Geez.

By the way, more Americans are pro-life than pro-choice (see: More Americans ?Pro-Life? Than ?Pro-Choice? for First Time). I'd say a view that the majority of Americans favors is hardly "extremist".

Let's keep the analysis of Tebow to his football, ok?

I wish I could say that I care about what you or Tim Tebow think about abortion but sadly I don't. Try to stick to football.

 

[ausbacker]

Just an unbelievable thing to say, frankly. He's pro-life, probably due in part for moral and religious reasons, but probably in large part because he was *nearly aborted himself*!! He has very good personal reasons for being pro-life, wouldn't you say? Geez.

By the way, more Americans are pro-life than pro-choice (see: More Americans ?Pro-Life? Than ?Pro-Choice? for First Time). I'd say a view that the majority of Americans favors is hardly "extremist".

Let's keep the analysis of Tebow to his football, ok?

Next time you post, try reading the rest of the thread first.

 

[ivanvamp]

Next time you post, try reading the rest of the thread first.

My bad. I should have noticed that someone else (Deus Irae) already disproved your point.

 

[ivanvamp]

I wish I could say that I care about what you or Tim Tebow think about abortion but sadly I don't. Try to stick to football.

You criticized Tebow for his "self righteousness". I asked you what self righteousness? You have chosen not to respond. Does that mean that you really can't think of an example?

Regarding the football qualifications of Tebow...I'd love to have him as a football player and possible backup QB. A 3rd round pick on him might be worth it. At a minimum he gives you another guy that might be able to step under center in an emergency, and if he is the #3 QB, you have time to develop him. Or he could be a decent H-back, possibly. I wouldn't spend a high draft pick (1st-2nd round) on him if I was any NFL team.

 

[ausbacker]

My bad. I should have noticed that someone else (Deus Irae) already disproved your point.

How was anything disproved you colossal moron? I offered my opinion in why I don't like religious extremism, even amongst Catholicism.

 

[Matw]

After seeing some of the highlights from the Senior Bowl today, I don't want Tim Tebow anywhere near our team. Who cares if he can be had for a third round pick? So can a myriad of other players in positions we actually need playmakers in. From a football standpoint, I don't think it makes any sense for us to take him in the draft. Every pick we have this year is vital and I think it would be a spectacular failure if we threw one of our earlier picks away on a QB who struggles with his position on such a fundamental level.

On Tebow's in-your-face religious character, I personally think it would cause nothing but headaches and distractions. What if a teammate's girlfriend, wife or loved one falls pregnant after being raped? What if Tom leaves Gisele for another woman? What if there are atheists in the locker room who don't take kindly to his incessant bible thumping? Like it or not, people have very strong views when it comes to religion. It would only take one of our key players to strongly disagree with Tebow's fundamental Christian message to cause a potential rift in the locker room. His skills don't warrant the potential frustration, imo.

And just to make it clear, I'm not at all saying there is anything wrong with being an NFL player and a dedicated Christian. I am, however, saying that an NFL player who uses the media and the game to spread his fundamental Christian beliefs does run the risk of causing issues in the locker room if his teammates strongly oppose his message.

:bricks:

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Back to football.

Plus side:

1.) Tebow's intangibles are off the chart! And it is nearly impossible to teach intangibles.
2.) Tebow wins games. He is a winner and he tilts the field in his direction when on it.
3.) Tebow has tons of big game experience and knows how to use weapons around him.

Negative side:

1.) No pro style offense experience, can not read defenses and does not know how to take a snap from under center. Very difficult to learn how to turn your back on a defense.
2.) Footwork and delivery are miserable. He holds the ball too low, he winds up from New Mexico before throwing.
3.) He stares down the primary receiver. Instant trouble doing that in the NFL.

So why the Pats:

1.) Our offense is the MOST similar to Florida. Still a country mile different however small elements of the spread option are incorporated into our offense.
2.) BB knows how to coach up guys with huge intangibles and make them productive. God help BB when it comes to coaching up OLB's, but BB remains the master when he has a motivated pupil.
3.) Tebow offers versatility. Music to BB ears. Yes Tebow wants to be a QB, however he said he is willing to do other stuff while he gets a complete QB makeover. (PS: BB needs to hire a QB coach to work full time with Tebow, if we draft Tebow.)

 

[Gator Mike]

Negative side:

1.) No pro style offense experience, can not read defenses and does not know how to take a snap from under center. Very difficult to learn how to turn your back on a defense.

FWIW, something like 74% of Brady's pass attempts last year came from the shotgun.

2.) Footwork and delivery are miserable. He holds the ball too low, he winds up from New Mexico before throwing.
3.) He stares down the primary receiver. Instant trouble doing that in the NFL.

...and he's better at nearly all of this then he was four years ago. He's learning. Put him in a professional environment where he doesn't have to spend half his time going to class, and the learning curve bends in a positive direction.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Negative side:

1.) No pro style offense experience, can not read defenses and does not know how to take a snap from under center. Very difficult to learn how to turn your back on a defense.

FWIW, something like 74% of Brady's pass attempts last year came from the shotgun.


...and he's better at nearly all of this then he was four years ago. He's learning. Put him in a professional environment where he doesn't have to spend half his time going to class, and the learning curve bends in a positive direction.

Good point about Brady in the gun.

I have no doubt that a fire rages in his belly to be the absolute BEST he can be and he will work his backside off to utilize every last ounce of God given talent that he possesses. I think if I were him, I would pray that New England drafts me, because I think BB will make him into something special. It will take at least three years, but BB will do it.

I would love to see Superman in New England as well. I think he is a winner and brings a winning attitude and character unlike anything we have seen in 2009 to the team.

However I do want to note that while talking to Tebow before the Arkansas game, I think he told me he was only taking 1 class.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have no doubt that a fire rages in his belly to be the absolute BEST he can be and he will work his backside off to utilize every last ounce of God given talent that he possesses. I think if I were him, I would pray that New England drafts me, because I think BB will make him into something special. It will take at least three years, but BB will do it.

I would love to see Superman in New England as well. I think he is a winner and brings a winning attitude and character unlike anything we have seen in 2009 to the team.

I have no problem taking him with the #118 pick. Anything earlier would be a reach, IMHO. As you say, he will take at least 3 years to be a productive QB in the NFL, with optimum coaching and working like the devil. That's too long a wait and too long odds to use anything higher.

 

[SanAngeloState]

So he has horrible mechanics, can't read a defense to save his life, locks onto receivers...

That's worth a 3rd round pick in the hopes that he MAY be able to learn how to be a QB in 3-4 years? Are you kidding?

Tons of QBs have great attitudes and are hard workers. Most don't do jack in the NFL even if they don't have his weaknesses.

He's worth a look as an UDFA if he's willing to play H back.

 

[alvinnf]

Where is Charlie Ward these days anyhow?

 

[ivanvamp]

How was anything disproved you colossal moron? I offered my opinion in why I don't like religious extremism, even amongst Catholicism.

You painted Tebow's pro-life position as religious extremist. As two of us now have pointed out, polls show that a majority of Americans are pro-life. Ergo, it is not an "extremist" position. To the contrary, it is (slightly) more mainstream than the pro-choice position.

It really isn't that difficult to understand...even a "moron" like me understands it. I'm sure a super-sharp Mensa member like you can come to grips with it.

 

[ivanvamp]

So he has horrible mechanics, can't read a defense to save his life, locks onto receivers...

That's worth a 3rd round pick in the hopes that he MAY be able to learn how to be a QB in 3-4 years? Are you kidding?

Tons of QBs have great attitudes and are hard workers. Most don't do jack in the NFL even if they don't have his weaknesses.

He's worth a look as an UDFA if he's willing to play H back.

I think this is a great debate. We can all think of many college QB's with great "skills" - cannon arm, impressive physical specimen, can make all the throws, etc. - that totally flame out in the NFL. We can also think of guys with intangibles but with a worse physical skill set that don't make it in the NFL.

I wonder if Tebow's shortcomings (his poor footwork and throwing mechanics, etc.) can be taught over a 2-3 year period by NFL coaches, and with tutoring from Brady. Clearly he has some passing skill. Here are his college stats:

661-995 (66.4%), 9285 yds, 9.3 ypa, 88 td, 16 int

And he put up those numbers in what is by far the best conference in college football (SEC). He wasn't playing QB for BYU.

So can his weaknesses be coached out of him? Can you maximize his strengths, teach out his weaknesses, and turn him into a legitimate starting QB in the NFL? Somebody will think that they can....it just depends on how much confidence they have in that (which will translate into where he gets drafted).

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I think that he will make one hell of a QB for the Montreal Aloettes.

 

[The_Riddler]

If Tebow is there after our edge rusher is locked up then why not? Can you imagine TT and Brady patrolling the sidelines together, the legend and the student, a torch to be passed at a later time. Not to mention, I honestly feel like our QB has softened up a bit (post Giselle), it's time to re-light a little fire under #12, what better way to do it ?

There are alot of plays that can be designed for Mr. Tebow to allow him to contribute right away (HBack, wildcat you name it) while we wait for him to gell into a top flight QB to receive the torch from #12. On and off the field, what a great presence he would be for this football team.

 

[MaineMan]

Interesting Scouting Report on Tebow and it pretty much conveys the conventional wisdom on him: WalterFootball.com: 2010 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Tim Tebow

My feeling is no thanks for obvious reasons.

Tim Tebow Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

# Strengths: Good height and great musculature
# Solid arm strength
# Very good deep ball accuracy
# Great pass rush sense and pocket instincts
# Athletic and can move chains with legs
# Extremely powerful runner
# Good trucking ability; picks up yards after contact
# Good character and strong work ethic
# Prototype leader



Weaknesses:
# Absolutely horrendous footwork; has not gotten better since freshman year
# Plays in run-option offense
# Doesn't throw smooth ball; bad touch
# Inaccurate on intermediate routes
# Extremely long release
# Very bad passing mechanics
# Locks onto primary receiver
# No pro reads in offense
# Left-handed
# Tucks and runs
# Doesn't make pro-style passing progression reads
# Comes from program with bad QB pedigree

Summary: If I could take Tim Tebow's mind and put it into the body of some college quarterbacks, then they would be No. 1 overall picks. However, we have seen quarterbacks with outstanding intangibles bust at the next level. It will take Tebow 3-4 years to learn an NFL offense to where he could actually start a game.

Tebow's best fit at the next level will be at fullback or H-Back because his best skills are his running abilities; there's too much development involved to draft Tebow as a franchise quarterback, though the success of Pat White in the Wildcat offense could help his draft stock. Looks to be a second-round pick with his great intangibles and versatility.

Player Comparison: Byron Leftwich (Passer)/Mike Alstott (Runner). Tebow has a very similar release to Leftwich and he will also struggle to read defenses in NFL. He also has Mike Alstott's elite power running attributes with the ability to get yards after contact.

When exactly did THAT happen? Did I miss it?

 

[MaineMan]

IDK. I think Terrell Owens is pretty self-righteous. Different religion, though. That being, "The Church of Terrell Owens."

Seriously, though, with all the players who almost immediately thank God for their opportunities and success in every sideline interview, the pre-game prayer huddles, the point at "The Man" after a TD, I don't see how Tebow's evangelical fundamentalism would be out of place in any NFL locker room. I'm not mocking any of this, just pointing out that's the way it is. IOW, irrelevant to any discussion of whether to draft Tebow or not.

Personally, from a practical viewpoint, this particular draft seems way too deep at a couple of the positions that the Pats desperately need to upgrade for us to spend even a 3rd-rounder on such a long-term project. "Intangibles" (used to be called "Moxie") aside, from what I've directly observed of his play (not merely regurgitating the opinions of the self-proclaimed "experts"), I believe Tebow has a long way (couple years) to go and a lot of habits to break before he stands any chance of being even a decent NFL QB (and even then). Sure, he might work as an RB/FB/H-back, but so would a lot of other prospects who we could get in the 3rd round or later. Gerhart, for example, is a similar type of runner, is more accomplished and has similar "intangibles" (IMHO), but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take him in the 3rd round, much less the 2nd.

If Tebow is still hanging around by the 6th round, sure, why not? Before that, though, the risk/reward calculation simply isn't anywhere near positive for me.