King rips the Pats (again)

[DaBruinz]

Thomas is a starter.

Meriweather is a rookie.

Our bench is no better than last year as far as LB's go.

Our bench IS better than last year, as far as LBs go. Seau is an UPGRADE over TBC whether you like it or not.

Just by virtue of gaining experience, Woods should be better. I won't hold my breath regarding Mays. Alexander should be better, though I don't know how much. It remains to be seen if Lua or Rogers is an upgrade over Don Davis.

There are only so many spots on the team. You can't be 3 starters deep at each spot. It just doesn't happen.

 

[primetime]

Does he have a point that we're slow and unathletic at LB? Yes.

We'll have to see how much difference the A.D. addition makes.

Not particularly slow or unathletic. Colvin is hardly slow and unathletic, and Vrabel is not either. Bruschi and Seau, yes, fine. And Thomas isn't an "old" linebacker. He's 30, sure, but he didn't start being an every down player until a couple years ago, so he has alot more mileage left in his tank than other guys his age. He's also one of the most athletic, quick cover LBs in the league.

Athleticism in this scheme is not as important as smarts and tackling ability.

By the way, I don't think the defense was the problem in the Colts game. Had it not been on the field for 80% of the second half, I think the Patriots would have won. However, the Patriots struggled to get a running game going. Why? Because Bob Sanders was in the box killing the run. The guy's a beast. But with Moss, Stallworth, and Welker, the Colts will get burned if they bring Sanders into the box as Moss and Stallworth can burn any of their crappy CBs one-on-one and Welker is going to be next to impossible to cover by nickel CBs (by any nickel CB in the league, as he proved last year against the Patriots).

I honestly think that the moves the Patriots made this offseason were to counter the Colts, as they know that losing to any other team is merely a fluke. AD was brought in to counter Clark, and the offensive weapons were brought in to counter Sanders, the Colts' most fearsome defensive weapon.

 

[DaBruinz]

I never count on rookies especially in this system.

Woods and Alexander....

I will believe that when I see it...I have no hope for the scrubs behind Seau...

I don't generally count on rookies in this system, unless they are at CB, RB, or O-line. Now, with Meriweather is a highly touted youngster. There is a good chance he could come in and be as good as Wilson was his rookie year. There is a chance that Meriweather could be even better than Wilson. We will just have to wait and see.

As for Woods and Alexander, I bet you were calling Bruschi a scrub when he was working as a back-up DE, so I hardly give your opinion on this any validity.

 

[DaBruinz]

I disagree....

Last years starters

Seau
Bruschi
Colvin
Vrabel


Bench
TBC
Alexander
Woods

This years starters
Bruschi
Thomas
Vrabel
Colvin

Bench

Seau (until he goes on IR)
Alexander
Woods
Lua....

Not really much improvement as far as I am concerned. Should have done more to bolster the depth.

And what would have had the Pats do? Instead of just preaching like a know-it-all, why not offer up alternate suggestions. Or can't you be bothered to do that?

For you to not think that having Thomas in the line-up over Seau isn't a huge upgrade shows how little you know about Thomas. There is a huge difference in the level of their abilities at this time. And you totally discount that the Pats will be able to rotate Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Bruschi and Seau so that they won't have to take nearly as many snaps. That should help strengthen their durability.

BTW, which supposed 7th rounder/UDFA on Green Bay is better than what the Pats have?

 

[DaBruinz]

I would have drafted David Harris in the 1st round instead of throwing the pick away.

I would have also signed edgerin Hartwell.

This would have gave us some legitimate LB talent to develop and another veteran capable of playing in the 3-4.

So, in your finite wisdom, you think you know better than Bill Belichick? How do you know that Harris could have fit into the Pats system. How do you figure that the Pats threw away the pick?

As for Edgerin Harwell, you sit there and complain about SEAU being injured, yet you want the Pats to sign a guy with two bad knees and who has been injured more than Seau the last two years. That makes LOADS of sense.

 

[BelichickFan]

I would have drafted David Harris in the 1st round instead of throwing the pick away.

Investing the pick in a (almost certainly) higher pick is obviously not throwing it away. You can certainly disagree with the decision but your argument loses force by saying something so out there. Regarding Harris, yes, I would have been fine taking him. And I'd have had more confidence in additional depth at ILB. However it's not like we were outmaneuvered to get him - he was there and we passed. There's no other way to say it than obviously Belichick and Pioli didn't think he was worth a late #1 in a weak draft . . . what does that tell you ?

 

[DaBruinz]

Or he didnt think about it at all like he has done for the past 5 years.

This is just friggin stupidity at its best. BB didn't think about filling the LB position at all for the past 5 years? Then how is it that they went out and signed Colvin in 2003 and Thomas this year? How is it that they drafted TBC, Ryan Claridge and Jeremy Mincey during that time? I suggest you go and read Patriot Reign, and Management Secrets of the New England Patriots vol 1& 2 before you flap your mouth anymore.

Until I see on the field, some actual talented LB's(behind the starters not 50 years old) I am going to question the LB depth on this team.

No position has been as ignored in the draft as LB has. And this is our oldest position on the team.

LB may be the oldest in terms of starters, but its not the oldest on the team. Not when you include Lua, Rogers, and Bissinger.

Actually, Punter has been ignored by BB in the draft. As has FB. And its not like the Pats didn't want to draft a day 1 LB. They just couldn't move up to get Bradley is all. Oh wait, I bet you think Bradley doesn't represent talent.

Just like your other BS. You don't think that Lua and Rogers and Bissinger are talented, do you? I only have to point to Kenneth Sims, Chris Canty, Tom Brady and Adalius Thomas as PROOF that where a player is drafted does NOT necessarily stipulate the level of talent they have. In the case of Sims and Canty, it was the LACK of talent. In the cases of Brady and Thomas it was how under-rated their talent was.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thats what I am saying and I dont see how 7th round scrubs and UDFA's can help us do that.

Because you insist on blinding yourself by thinking that just because they were 7th rounders or UDFA that means they have no talent.

All you have to do is look at Marques Colston, Tom Brady, and Adalius Thomas a a few examples of late round players who have excelled.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thats the problem...

Seau is almost a guarantee to get injured since he hasnt made a full year in 4 years.
Bruschi is now injury prone.

HTW is Bruschi injury prone now? Because he has a stroke 2 years ago and broke his wrist last year? That is just ignorance.

Vrabel had back problems.
Colvin is always a concern.

We lose 2 of those 4 who starts in their place????

When was the last time the Pats lost 2 starters out of their LB corps during the season? The last time I can remember was 1999. Other than that, the only thing that has happened was when they lost Bruschi, Johnson and Phifer and didn't have the people to recover. But that was because Johnson's retirement was sudden and unexpected.

I dont agree they have done a good job....In my mind a good job would have been having Bruschi's replacement on the bench now....They dont have that.

How do you know they don't have Bruschi's replacement on the bench? How do you know that Pierre Woods or Justin Rogers isn't that replacement? Are you psychic? Heck, Vrabel could be that replacement to help with his back and Woods could be Vrabel's replacement in the OLB corps.

 

[ClevTrev]

Interesting that Pete King has spawned all this discussion on the state of the Pats defense, LB in particular.

Attributing what we saw at the end of last season to being the status quo for the team despite adding a significant player at the position and getting the others healthy is nothing more than blind speculation.

Saying Bruschi, Vrabel, and Colvin are not fit and healthy and that Seau is one play away from the IR is also blind speculation. Injuries do happen, but they can happen as easily to Eugene Wilson as they can happen to Rodney Harrison, as easily to Chad Jackson as they can happen to Patrick Pass. The point is that age is not always a predictor of impending injury. Injuries happen at any age in the violent world of the NFL.

King's predictions were about this season.

The LB corps is deep. They would be wise to get younger. The need to get younger should start now, but it is not going to be the difference maker this season in being able to win it all. If the team felt they could have drafted an impact LB in this year's first round, they would have done that. The definition of impact is a player who can immediately start and make a difference in his first year. I'm confident enough in this team's management to know that if that player existed in this year's draft when it was time for the Pat's picks, he would now be on the Patriot's roster.

 

[RayClay]

Not particularly slow or unathletic. Colvin is hardly slow and unathletic, and Vrabel is not either. Bruschi and Seau, yes, fine. And Thomas isn't an "old" linebacker. He's 30, sure, but he didn't start being an every down player until a couple years ago, so he has alot more mileage left in his tank than other guys his age. He's also one of the most athletic, quick cover LBs in the league.

Athleticism in this scheme is not as important as smarts and tackling ability.

.

You sound like the lawyer who said "my client didn't do it and if he did do it, it wasn't his fault".

The Pats linebackers are generally bigger and less athletic than other teams who draft for speed and draft linebackers high.

Add age and wear and it has to be a concern. Certainly A.D. boosts our athleticism and skill.

 

[JackBauer]

Thats pretty scary....

I think if I looked I could find a team with better than a 7th round scrub/UDFA as a backup LB...

Green Bay comes to mind real quick.

Actually, it's not scary in the slightest. Some day you may come to realize draft position is not the only indicator of potential.

So one team came to mind. Impressive...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thank Peter King for Jinxing the Saints and Colts
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/04/thank-peter-king-for-jinxing-the-saints-and-colts/

If the team goes 6-10 this year, you now know who to blame: Peter King.
-----
King's history with his Spring Super Bowl picks is admittedly pretty poor. He had the Minnesota Loveboats playing the Patriots in Super Bowl XL and a New England/Dallas matchup last year.

Let's face it: hype is almost never a good thing. Being annointed a championship team in June usually ends up with an early-to-mid round pick in April.

 

[g-fresh]

I disagree....

Last years starters

Seau
Bruschi
Colvin
Vrabel


Bench
TBC
Alexander
Woods

This years starters
Bruschi
Thomas
Vrabel
Colvin

Bench

Seau (until he goes on IR)
Alexander
Woods
Lua....

Not really much improvement as far as I am concerned. Should have done more to bolster the depth.

How quickly we forget that Alexander had the most tackles in the AFCCG. Everything we've been hearing about Woods says he's on the right track to making a contribution for us. Both of them will have had a year in the system which is so complex it took Colvin two years to really learn it.

Guys were playing out of position at the end of last year as well, Colvin was forced to play the strong side which is not what he is best at, Vrabel can play inside but is best outside, TBC was just not ready/able to be a full time player in the Pat's system. With the addition of AD you allow players to get back to where they excel and also dramatically improve the amount of talent you have on the field by replacing TBC with AD. Even without contributions from the younger guys this means that Bruschi and Seau won't be forced to be on the field at the same time.

Don't you think there is a reason why they didn't go after LBs more aggressively? It would seem to me that BB likes what he has in the young guys that are on the team now. I think Alexander and Woods must be looking good to BB this year, or at least better than anything else that was available.

When it comes down to it the Pat's and BB have done their best at LB by using a mix of older players to their strengths. The addition of AD and what he will allow them to do on D should not be under appreciated. To say that there has not been much improvement is simply not looking at the big picture.

 

[cstjohn17]

Thats the problem...

Seau is almost a guarantee to get injured since he hasnt made a full year in 4 years.
Bruschi is now injury prone.
Vrabel had back problems.
Colvin is always a concern.

We lose 2 of those 4 who starts in their place????


I dont agree they have done a good job....In my mind a good job would have been having Bruschi's replacement on the bench now....They dont have that.

Heaven forbid you question the Patriots, prepare for 9 or 10 responses from a single poster.

Although I have been calling for LBs to added via the draft for the past 4 years, I am ok with our LB depth. I am more concerned with CB if Samuel holds out and also have questions about the RB posiiton.

Up to now they just don't spend high draft picks on LBs, this chart proves it.

Every roster in the NFL has holes, to win you need some of the unknown players to step up. The Patriots have a lot of balance and will be just fine.

As for King's piece, who cares what someone writes in June. The AFC is so strong a number of teams could be in the mix. The football season is going to be great, a lot of really good teams at the top of the pile.

1A - Patriots, Colts, Chargers <-- virtual pick-em
1B - Denver <-- questions at QB
Sleepers - Ravens, Bengals
Other challengers - Jets, Steelers, Tennessee

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I don't find King's reasoning to support his pick very convincing.

He could have picked SD over SF for all I care, but at least have a decent explanation.

Despite losses, Indy will *somehow* find a way to remain "scrappy" on defense while NE will still not have an answer to the Colts offense despite adding the best FA available in Thomas and drafting a safety in the first round... not to mention picking up Tory James and at least having a reasonable chance at less injuries than last year. They basically lost nothing (assuming Asante plays) except a backup LB that none of us was sure about anyway.

I think the Colts offense will be about the same. They upgraded the slot receiver position, but lost Dominic Rhodes.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't think we should be taking this "prediction" all that seriously, especially given King's track record and his own self-deprecation in presenting it.

BTW, I didn't read the article as a "rip" on the Patriots. Just the perspective of a sportswriter wired by too many Latte's at Starbucks.

 

[LaBrady]

Its just so stupid when those "experts" pick the team that won the SB last year to win it again. Unless its the Patriots of course but than Pats proved it already. No way NO and Indy play in the SB next year, like just because everyone wanted them to play this year they do next year. And Colts win too. Yeah right, King just makes an easy non controversial pick so not many people would argue with him. What a joke!

 

[PonyExpress]

My early SB prediction is Pats/Rams, a rematch of 36. The Rams have a top 10 QB when healthy, elite weapons with Jackson, Holt, Randy McMichael, a solid O-line with Orlando Pace returning from injury, a solid draft (Brian Leonard and Adam Carriker, although I don't like that Carriker has been tabbed as Nose Guard) and potential for an improving D with Witherspoon, Leonard Little, Tye Hill et.al. They have a good HC too.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

King's souring on the Pats IMO has nothing to do with football analysis. It is a result of his prissy moral attitudes and his feeling of betrayal after having depicted the Pats as "different" for years because of the type of players he assumed they preferred. That is why he continually pushed the Rutgers FB as the Pats #1 pick during draft season. When the Pats got Moss and Meriweather, and Brady's personal life became public fodder, and BB's personal life became public fodder, King's sensibilities were offended. That is why
1) he has spent time complimenting Shaugnessy's crirticism of the Krafts
2) lauded the work of Ron Borges, who accused the Pats of no longer being character driven
3) continually pretends that Brady lost the AFCCG with his INT, when everyone knows it was already lost the second Addai scored. IMO this is not a sincere response to Brady's on-field play, but to Brady's off-field peccadillos. King is firing a warning shot across Tom's bow. King is really saying: "Just as I created your myth when I thought you were the All-American boy, I can tear it down because you have betrayed the image of you I imagined."

So true.

I am always amazed when I compare the cafe latte musings of these fat bottom media types blowing gas into their easy chair and making up campfire tales about the all-American Patriots with the cold, hard and unrelenting nature of Bioli as they singlemindedly try to build an angry, aggressive team of mean spirited yet savvy football players to stomp opponents into submission within the constantly restricting limits of the rules.

All Belichick EVER wanted was players that are going to smack the other team right in the face.

I get a giggle out of all the warm and fuzzy feelings the Pats generated in the clueless press while they brought in the Harrisons and Dillons and Ted Washingtons of the world. But apparently Moss is one recruit too many for the illusionary friendly neighborhood Patsies club. Now Belichick is suddenly throwing morals to the wind and running a chain gang of malcontents.