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KGB subversion tactics inside the United States

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PonyExpress, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    More relevant than ever...

    The following are interviews with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov, conducted by C. Edward Griffin in 1984. Bezmenov was a KGB operative with high level connections. His father was a Red Army General who reported directly to the Soviet Minister of Defense. Yuri details many of the strategies used by the KGB to demoralize and undermine American society, a critical step in laying the groundwork for a communist takeover. He describes methods used for the manipulation of "useful idiots", socialist sympathizers on the left wing of US politics. His insight is both horrifying and fascinating. The relevance remains. Many of the "lost generations" he describes inhabit the halls of power today. The KGB actively trained the intelligence services of several Islamic countries with whom we are currently embroiled. It seems likely that similar tactics are currently being employed inside of Western democracies today. The very openness of our society, which is its greatest asset, is also its greatest weakness, allowing focused regimes without scruples to burrow into our culture and destroy it from within.

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  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Could definitely use more of your input around here, dude!! Don't be such a stranger!


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  3. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    not sure what's funnier.... the resurfacing of ridiculous McCarthyist paranoia, or Fog all giddy about finally finding a new friend willing to pipe his pap of choice...
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  4. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    In other news, The British are coming The British are coming!
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey
    It's a good thread ... you guys are just being rude. We do the same thing in other countries and you all know it.
  6. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I think you would benefit from watching these clips. Give them a try, just for the historical perspective alone. It can't hurt and you may find them interesting.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    As soon as any one of you "Bush is God, Russia is evil" types watch PBS "The Dark Side"... Haven't seen a single poster here admit to watching that. Just face-valued denial of its contents.

    Anyhow, i'm sure Sen. Joe McCarthy was partially right 57 years ago. However... oops... no one cares. The Israelis have spies here too, and our government knows all about it.
  8. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Even if you disagree, watching these clips will inform your perspective. They make for interesting viewing, an interview with a man who was a high level KGB operative before defecting. This was in the early 1980s, not the McCarthy period.
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    You don't want to confuse ol' PC with any facts, now; his cynicism might start to melt away and then he'd have to find a whole new persona!! And after all he's invested in the one he wears now!!! :eek: We'd be talking some real coin.


    :eek: --------- :eek: --------------------- :eek:

    "We need to get over our inordinate fear of communism." -- Jimmy Carter c. 1978


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  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Posted that a while ago, encouraged people to view part of it, Fog and his crew pretty much sabotaged it.. dismissed the content as it was a PBS presentation.. even though it had many of Bush's Lieutenants
    testimony..

    If we do not know there are foreign operatives here, and if we do not have foreign operatives all over the world exerting influence.. shame on us.. it is what it is the way of the political world.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  11. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    the irony in your posts grow more profound each time, and each time i'm convinced the latest tripe can never be surpassed... and each time i'm wrong...

    facts? cynicism? a 'worn persona?' ... it's truly poetic ...

    what an utter charicature you seriously are...
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  12. Fogbuster

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    .



    Spell-check: "caricature".


    :D ----- :D ---------- :D ------------------------- :D


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  13. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    that's all you have to say ... priceless indeed...

    you should run some kind of "check" on yourself... that's what you should do, fraud...

    facts, cynicism and a 'worn persona'... from you... i can't stop chuckling...
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  14. Fogbuster

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    "fraud": PC's timeless m.o.: when he is defeated he pulls out the ad homs. When his opponent fires back, PC points fingers.

    :rofl: -------- :rofl: ------------------------ :rofl:


    What a freaking tool you is, PressBoy!!


    :D

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  15. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    wait... what?

    how have you defeated me? on what issue? ...
  16. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Well Pony, the BEAUTIFUL thing about America is that it would be totally acceptable if a group of our fine citizens wanted to start a communist party. We have actually had small & weak versions of a communist party in our modern history.

    Communism is just a different form of government. It bears no inherent evil any more than a democracy. So if your neighbors came to you and said "we are starting the American Communist Party (ACP)" you would find that perfectly acceptable due to our first ammendment rigths. It would cause you amazement and wonder over the freedoms we have in this land. Of course you would tell your neighbors "no thank you" and smile.

    There is absolutely nothing to fear in communism itself. Unless someone is afraid of losing all their "stuff" :D

    capiche comrade?
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  18. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    You obviously have no idea what Marxist-Leninism is.

    In Marxist-Leninism there is no freedom of expression, freedom of worship, private property, no morality other than the power of the state. A human being is an insect. Marxist-Leninism embraces mass murder as an acceptable political tactic- not only is it acceptable it is a necessary step in its implementation. Marxist Leninism is everything that is evil about mankind. For you to openly suggest that it is not inherently evil is a tragic indictment of your own moral outlook.

    I am not angry at you. I feel compassion for you as a victim of propaganda.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Another one of your typical over reactions Pony. I am not nor have I ever been a fan of communism. And the topic here is communism as a form of government. Marxism-Leninism is an EXAMPLE of a government that adopted communism.

    Communism is not inherently evil. Just as democracy is not inherently good. I could put together a very long list of evil things our government has done and you know I'm right Pony.

    All I am saying is that a communist party could start in my or your neighborhood and that is perfectly fine under our constitution. And there would be nothing you could do about it. You MUST accept it because it is perfectly legal and constitutional.

    Fortunately, 99.99999% of American's prefer our current form of government. I was just making a point that communism is acceptable in America.
  20. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    You just stated the following: "Communism is just a different form of government. It bears no inherent evil any more than a democracy."

    I did not overreact. There can be no overreaction to that statement. Maybe you were just kidding.
  21. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    My statement is not opinion, it is fact. This will be the third time I've made the statement so that it is clear to you. "Forms" of government are theoretical models and therefore bear no inherent good or evil. Show me where in each of these models there is inherent goodness or evil....actually, don't because it's not possible.

    Just as I can tell you for a fact no religious book (like the Bilble) is inherently good. This is not debateable Pony. Do you even know what the word inherent means?

    You can give EXAMPLES of nations that have adopted communism, but that is not communism.

    You're missing the main the point I've tried to make with you and that is that

    IT IS PERFECTLY WITHIN THE RIGHTS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS TO FORM A COMMUNIST PARTY

    And if that happens, there's not a damn thing you can do about it except not join it.

    You keep commenting on peripheral points I'm making...Stick to my main point in bold caps above.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  22. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    For Marx and Lenin, history is a relentless driving conflict of classes that ends with a final revolution ushering in communist utopia. Leninism intended his philosophy to be the restoration of the "true doctrine" of Marx [from "the State and Revolution", Lenin (1917)], which meant the rejection of any political compromise. What stood in the way had to be ruthlessly and completely destroyed, both in speech and deed. "The liberation of the oppressed class is impossible, not only without violent revolution, but also without the destruction of the apparatus of state power". The bourgeoisie, the oppressive capitalist class, must be ferociously annihilated, and a new revolutionary government built on the corpses. The revolutionary class is thereby given the "opportunity to crush, to smash to atoms, to wipe off the face of the earth the bourgeois, even the republican bourgeois, state machine, the standing army, the police and bureaucracy".

    The revolutionaries must kill the bourgeois, seize their property and set up a "dictatorship of the proletariat".

    Lenin often described the state as a "machine" and this was no accident. The state is a machine because man is merely mechanical, a thing built accidentally by evolution, but which can be reforged by revolutionary force, reengineered as a mechanism. The dictatorship of the proletariat will wield the final hammer.

    GK Chesterton once said that communism eliminates the pickpocket by eliminating the pocket.

    That was much too generous. In Lenin's view, the man who own the pants must be shot for having pockets, the pickpocket must be made the executioner, and all those watching must be forced to make pocketless pants or else they too will be shot. Such is communism's brutal insanity.

    Under Lenin, somewhere between 6 and 8 million people were brutally slaughtered.

    Under Stalin, who inherited the "efficiency operating machinery for the mass destruction of political and social opponents" 20 to 25 million people were killed.

    This nearly unimaginable butchery, perpetrated upon the very people it claimed to be benefiting, was no accident. Lenin's philosophy called for the abolition of any qualms of conscience about using any means to achieve a political goal.

    Lenin used 3 interlinked tools to abolish the idea of conscience. (1) atheism: a world without God meant one's hands were not tied by morality. That meant any means were justified to achieve the desired ends (2) A communist utopia could be created on earth. The goal- completely unachievable- was painted as so wonderful and "progressive" that anyone standing in its way deserved to be crushed. 3) History is an inevitable march, step by step, revolution by revolution, man's free will totally absent, toward the Communist utopian paradise. Because it is inevitable, there can be no guilt about eliminating the flotsam of individuals who resist the inevitable, you are just speeding up the process to worldy paradise, and the sooner utopia approaches.

    This is an insane, pseudo scientific, pseudo-religion in which God is the revolutionary party, man is a machine, mass murder is a virtue and History permits no human freedom.

    Any person who considers this diabolical system legitimate or "just another system like democracy", ignoring out of either ignorance or malice its inherent immorality is truly a lost soul, and I pity you. At the same time, I intend to exercise my 2nd ammendment rights to the fullest, while they still exist, to protect my family and like minded freedom loving individuals from the consequences of such horrifying ignorance.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  23. PatriotsReign

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    You attempt to give me an unwarrented history lesson on Marxism and Lenin? Are you insane Pony? What a rant of bullsh1t!

    Again the ONLY issue I have been discussing is

    IT IS PERFECTLY WITHIN THE RIGHTS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS TO FORM A COMMUNIST PARTY

    And you talk of your second ammendment rights?! What does that have to do with legal activity? Do you always bear arms against those obeying the law Pony? Would that not make you a criminal? Do you bear arms against protesters as well? You are without a doubt exposed my friend. We can finally see you for what you are, anti-American.
  24. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    You stated the following: "Communism is just a different form of government. It bears no inherent evil any more than a democracy."

    You have not retracted that statement.

    You have called the accurate explanation of Marxist Leninist theory above as "unwarranted" and "bull****".

    You are talking carelessly about something truly evil. I am not advocating that you stop talking- merely that you do so from a standpoint of knowledge and not hearsay. Marxist Leninism, as a concept, is as evil as Nazism.
  25. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well according to the Venona papers of the KGB McCarthy was correct about communist infesting the state dept...
    no wait the KGB lied to their archives...:rolleyes:
  26. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you ever met any American communists, you'd realize how absurd those tapes are. Sure, the Communists tried a bunch of things, but most of them really were losers -- failing to win support in any community. They would tag along in the civil rights movement, poke around the student movement, but they were seen as absurd. I knew some. I actually helped oust some from a statewide student organization in the late 70s. By the 1960s, they were an absurd group that would have only been able to fool homes for the mentally retarded or for leftist senior citizens with dementia. Then again, many of those old lefties became neocons; maybe they're really neocoms? That would explain why our country is so f*cked up.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  27. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No it's not. Neither Marxism nor Leninism require a dictatorship. In fact, if Lenin had lasted longer, it's possible the Soviet Union would have been more successful, or at least more humane. You can certainly have Democratic Marxism and in some respects some of the nations with the highest standard of living in the world have many Marxist characteristics, such as Norway and Sweden. As concepts, they're certainly not evil, but you can argue that the implementation of the concepts has been even more evil than the implementation of capitalism in the United States, which involved the slaughter Indians and the enslavement of blacks.
  28. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Why did you put quotation marks around "dictatorship of the proletariat?" Where does that quote come from? Did you just make it up?
  29. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    This statement is as stupid as Sarah Palin. All you are doing is projecting the history of the USSR and it's totalitarian government onto the concept of Marxism. You are either totally disingenuous or you have no clue what you are talking about. To say "Marxist Leninism" is "truly evil" is not only completely moronic, it reflects a deeply flawed assumption based on a thin understanding of political philosophy. Not to mention that there is no such thing as "Marxist Leninism."

    Like any system, it's only as evil as the people in charge. If you were to base capitalism off of present day china, for instance, you could say "capitalism is inherently evil."
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  30. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Marxism-Leninism was the official political philosophy of the Soviet Union.
    Marxism-Leninism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Your statement that it is "moronic" to call Marxism-leninism "truly evil" is sickening. That philosophy embraces mass murder, not just as a tactic, but as an essential element of its philosophy. The mass murder of the bourgeois [which is most of us] is an essential step in establishing the dictatorship of the proletariat. If you believe otherwise, you are a seriously deluded individual who has been scammed in a political philosophy course by useful idiots. Have you even read Lenin's "The State and Revolution"? Read my earlier post detailing the nature of Communist philosophy. It is terrifying and accurate.

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