Kevin Faulk

[MrBigglesWorth]

I am not sure where this idea of LoMo taking Faulk's role comes from???
Who wants LoMo to take Faulk's role? LoMo is a Superstar in the making as a number one RB. Faulk has always been a 3rd down back and kick returner. Why do you want LoMo to become a 3rd down back? That would be a total waste of a first round draft pick. We are expecting LoMo to be another LT not Kevin Faulk.

How's that a total waste of a first round pick? As I recall one of Maroney's first carries of the regular season was third down draw that went for about 17 yards.

3-5-BUF25 (12:17) (Shotgun) L.Maroney right guard to BUF 3 for 22 yards (T.Vincent).

It's not like the pats are overusing him like Herm did with Curtis or now with LJ.

I personally would like to see more draws on third down with maroney or a swing pass.

People get to tied into specific roles. He's there to make plays, that's a perfect opportunity to make one.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I am not sure where this idea of LoMo taking Faulk's role comes from???
Who wants LoMo to take Faulk's role? LoMo is a Superstar in the making as a number one RB. Faulk has always been a 3rd down back and kick returner. Why do you want LoMo to become a 3rd down back? That would be a total waste of a first round draft pick. We are expecting LoMo to be another LT not Kevin Faulk.

How's that a total waste of a first round pick? As I recall one of Maroney's first carries of the regular season was third down draw that went for about 17 yards.

3-5-BUF25 (12:17) (Shotgun) L.Maroney right guard to BUF 3 for 22 yards (T.Vincent).

It's not like the pats are overusing him like Herm did with Curtis or now with LJ.

I personally would like to see more draws on third down with maroney or a swing pass.

People get to tied into specific roles. He's there to make plays, that's a perfect opportunity to make one.

 

[BradyManny]

I am not sure where this idea of LoMo taking Faulk's role comes from???
Who wants LoMo to take Faulk's role? LoMo is a Superstar in the making as a number one RB. Faulk has always been a 3rd down back and kick returner. Why do you want LoMo to become a 3rd down back? That would be a total waste of a first round draft pick. We are expecting LoMo to be another LT not Kevin Faulk.

I guess I don't follow your logic here - so if LoMo is a superstar in the making - and I agree - why would he only be a superstar on 1st and 2nd down? Wouldn't you want your superstar in on 3rd down? I don't understand the logic behind pulling your best weapon off the field on the most important down.

My point was, there will come a time at some point in his career in which Maroney will be a good enough pass catching and weapon out of the backfield that you will not want to pull him off the field on 3rd down. That isn't the case yet, Faulk is still our best 3rd down option. I was by no means suggesting we make Maroney the "3rd down back".

 

[BradyManny]

You just described Drew Beldsoe, not Kevin Faulk. Bledsoe won games and drove us nuts. Faulk, along with 44 other guys, participated in games and helped, but to say he won games for us is a bit over the top.

Are you saying there hasn't been games where Faulk wasn't clearly a potential MVP of that game? He's made a ton of huge fourth quarter plays for us over the years. He's also had some killer mistakes. I know there's a gut reaction to get angry with Faulk b/c he's coughed it up too many times in his career - but we can't forget all the huge plays he has made for us in his time here. He has won us games.

 

[D-cleater]

You'd want Dillon at RB on 3rd and long? You'd want Mills and Thomas at RB period?

(And how often to the Pats use a FB, especially on 3rd down?)

That leaves Maroney and Faulk. If Maroney is getting work on 1st and 2nd down as well as kick returns, Faulk is the remaining option. And he's been one of Brady's favorite and dependable bail-out guys for years and years now.

Good point.

I do like Maroney on 3rd and long as long as Dillon is getting most of the carries on 1st and 2nd downs. And I do see the value of having Maroney as KR, so yes, you don't want to completely burn him out before the playoffs, but right now he is the most solid option on 3rd and long.

Mills does supposedly fit the pass-catching FB role. Best case scenario would be for him to be able to contribute on third and long, like a Larry Centers type. Pass plays this role as well, although pick your poison there.

Basically, we spent our first four picks in this year's draft on skill players and I'd like to see one of them step up on third down, and I think they can if give a chance. Then consider our two first round TE's, one the most clutch third down player receivers of all time in Brown, and our other receivers...there are other options for converting on 3rd and long.

 

[Murphys95]

Inmates running the asylum...

The team lost the game yesterday. Kevin Faulk led the team with 5 receptions - including a key 4th down catch which extended the Patriots first scoring drive.

8 penalties, 5 turnovers, and the inability to stop Indy on 3rd down were the major factors in the loss. Faulk doesn't deserve any more or less blame for this loss than any other player on the Patriots. Singling him out just isn't right.

 

[Keegs]

Personally, I am tired of holding my damn breath everytime Kevin Faulk gets the ball. I pray that he goes down when he's running with it before he fumbles. I am completely uncomfortable watching him with the ball. He costed us this game. Sugarcoat it all you want, that tip costed the pats the game. We don't need him.


Digger44, this thread is so weak. You don't have the balls/heart to come out and say that Kevin Faulk sucks or call this thread exactly what it is, a "bash Kevin Faulk" thread. You don't need to walk on eggshells about this, just say what you feel.

I also find it hilarious that you reply with attitude to the first poster in this thread, but then when Belichikfan responds in more or less the same manner, you wipe his butt and say he's acting on "emotion".

Who's butt you sniffin?

 

[brady2brown]

Are you saying there hasn't been games where Faulk wasn't clearly a potential MVP of that game? He's made a ton of huge fourth quarter plays for us over the years. He's also had some killer mistakes. I know there's a gut reaction to get angry with Faulk b/c he's coughed it up too many times in his career - but we can't forget all the huge plays he has made for us in his time here. He has won us games.

No, I'm not saying to forget the plays he made in the past, and no, we won't forget what he has done for us. That isn't the same as saying he still belongs on the team. Go back and read my last post, and you will clearly see what I am saying. It isn't about what Faulk did for us in the past, it is what he is doing to us in the present. Can you say that Faulk was clearly the MVP of any game THIS year? That he made a ton of fourth quarter plays THIS year?

I don't disagree with you and the others who say what a great job he did for us, I only disagree when you say he is still doing it.

Faulk doesn't deserve any more or less blame for this loss than any other player on the Patriots. Singling him out just isn't right.

I didn't single out Kevin Faulk personally, you know. No one did. People are singling out the player who turned two catachable balls into interceptions, both deep in Indy Territory, at the end of half/game.

That guy, what his name might be, may not be the reason we lost, but he is not helping our cause a single bit any more, and IMO we will play better without him on the field. Having a key catch in a drive is meaningless if you later tip a catchable ball into an INT.

Anyway, it isn't Faulk's fault. It the fault of the coaching staff who put him in the game. Faulk's palying as best as he can. It just isn't that good anymore. So why put him in when there are players who are so much better?

At one point we had first and goal at the ten yard line at one point. In goes Faulk and Evans, and they give the ball to Faulk who gets stuffed. Well, duh! You're on the ten yard line, you have Dillon and Maroney on the sdielines and you're running Kevin Faulk out of the I formation? Is that what you would have called? I wouldn't have. I would have called on Dillon or Maroney as a single I back, and would either run him or do a play action.

We didn't draft Maroney to have Kevin Faulk run out of the I in goal line formations. At least he didn't fumble!

 

[SoonerPatriot]

My first thought last night was that it wasn't completely his fault. Brady's pass wasn't very good. It was high. He's a midgit. He put his mitt up to get it.

Then I began to realize that it seems as though anytime something goes wrong in a big game it seems like Faulk is around the ball, or directly involved somehow.


And furthermore, there's no legitimate reason he was in there in that situation over Maroney. None. I don't want to hear this BS about he does such and such better than Maroney. Bullfeathers. Save your amateur film reviews. Save the personnel grouping theories. Best players on the field at crunch time. End of story.

 

[Murphys95]

I didn't single out Kevin Faulk personally, you know. No one did. People are singling out the player who turned two catachable balls into interceptions, both deep in Indy Territory, at the end of half/game.

That guy, what his name might be, may not be the reason we lost, but he is not helping our cause a single bit any more, and IMO we will play better without him on the field. Having a key catch in a drive is meaningless if you later tip a catchable ball into an INT.

Anyway, it isn't Faulk's fault. It the fault of the coaching staff who put him in the game. Faulk's palying as best as he can. It just isn't that good anymore. So why put him in when there are players who are so much better?

I disagree. Faulk has had many meaningful plays this season. In week one, on a 3rd & 9 on Buffalo's 17 yard line Faulk hauled in an amazing touchdown catch from Brady. That brought the Pats back in the game 17-14, late in the 3rd quarter.

Versus Cincinnati, Faulk returned a punt 43 yards into Bengals territory to set up their second scoring drive and put the Pats ahead 14-6. Earlier in the game on the Pats first scoring drive the ball was directly snapped to Faulk, handed off to Jackson, who ran for a 1st down - that was a 3rd down play...and Faulk was a key component in that play.

Kevin Faulk is also the 3rd ranked punt returner in the NFL with a 13.4 yard average.

Sure Faulk had two passes "bobbled" in the Colts game. It was a fairly bad game for him (it was a bad game for the entire team). I simply don't agree that the Pats would be "better off" without him on the field and that he's not helping the cause anymore. He's a contributor and a playmaker - and it's unfair to ask the proverbial question, "what have you done for me lately" after he played a poor game.

 

[pats1]

Personally, I am tired of holding my damn breath everytime Kevin Faulk gets the ball. I pray that he goes down when he's running with it before he fumbles. I am completely uncomfortable watching him with the ball. He costed us this game. Sugarcoat it all you want, that tip costed the pats the game. We don't need him.


Digger44, this thread is so weak. You don't have the balls/heart to come out and say that Kevin Faulk sucks or call this thread exactly what it is, a "bash Kevin Faulk" thread. You don't need to walk on eggshells about this, just say what you feel.

I also find it hilarious that you reply with attitude to the first poster in this thread, but then when Belichikfan responds in more or less the same manner, you wipe his butt and say he's acting on "emotion".

Who's butt you sniffin?

I guess we should just cut Brady too, because some of his blatant overthrows have gone for INTs this season. We don't need him.

Hell, we don't need Maroney either. He's been stuffed too many times this season.

And while we're at it, let's cut every other player on the team.

 

[pats1]

My first thought last night was that it wasn't completely his fault. Brady's pass wasn't very good. It was high. He's a midgit. He put his mitt up to get it.

Then I began to realize that it seems as though anytime something goes wrong in a big game it seems like Faulk is around the ball, or directly involved somehow.


And furthermore, there's no legitimate reason he was in there in that situation over Maroney. None. I don't want to hear this BS about he does such and such better than Maroney. Bullfeathers. Save your amateur film reviews. Save the personnel grouping theories. Best players on the field at crunch time. End of story.

I'd want Faulk in catching passes on 3rd down out of the backfield ANY day of the week. That's his forte. Has been for 6 years.

 

[PromisedLand]

I think Kevin has been a great asset to the team over the years yet I am to the point I can longer defend him. I think he would have been sent to the dog house if he were on other teams. His fumbles to run attempts is too high and his tip cost us last night.

Agreed. Here are some FACTS to be noted by those defending him:

Kevin Faulk career stats:

620 rushes
252 receptions
162 kick returns
67 punt returns
22 fumbles

That's 1 fumble per 50.0 touches.

Corey Dillon career stats (just by way of comparison):

2517 rushes
233 receptions
7 kick returns
0 punt returns
27 fumbles

That's 1 fumble per 102.1 touches, over 2x better than Faulk.

And of course I don't want to jinx him but Laurence Maroney has 235 career touches so far with ZERO fumbles.

Faulk is a fumbler, and fumbles are win killers. To me the guy is productive but not so productive that it offsets the turnovers. Many of them seem to come at critical times, too. For example, his fumble in the playoff game against Denver turned the tide against us.

 

[Keegs]

I guess we should just cut Brady too, because some of his blatant overthrows have gone for INTs this season. We don't need him.

Hell, we don't need Maroney either. He's been stuffed too many times this season.

And while we're at it, let's cut every other player on the team.

Nope, just Faulk.

He makes too many mistakes in big games and cannot be trusted with the ball.

I'm not sure what the hell brady has anything to do with this, besides the fact that he is also a Patriot.

And Maroney, that's just weak.

Tell me you can respond better than this... don't take it personal, but Faulk just makes too many mistakes at crucial points in the game.

 

[Murphys95]

Nope, just Faulk.

He makes too many mistakes in big games and cannot be trusted with the ball.

Tell me you can respond better than this... don't take it personal, but Faulk just makes too many mistakes at crucial points in the game.

I have no problem with fans not liking certain players, that's their prerogative. But for the sake of a better discussion, can you list those mistakes at crucial points by Faulk? How many is "too many" mistakes? Be specific.

IMO, Faulk is a playmaker. Here are just some of his recent highlights:

2003: 23 rushes for 80 yards, 8 catches for 108 yards (2 for first downs) versus Houston in a 23-20 overtime win.

2003: 2 point conversion - Super Bowl XXXVIII. Direct snap to Faulk. Put the Pats up 29-22 late in the 4th quarter. (plus he had 6 carries for 42 yards on the night)

2004: AFC Divisional Game vs. Indy - 11 carries for 56 yards

2004: Super Bowl XXXIX - 8 carries for 38 yards.

2005: Week 3 at Pittsburgh, Faulk caught 7 passes for 71 yards, including a 17 yard reception on the game winning drive. Pats won 23-20.

Yes, Faulk fumbles the ball at times - If you don?t like him, you don?t like him, that?s cool, but I think his positives outweigh his negatives. Plus I "trust" the New England coaching staff to decide who their best players are.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I have no problem with fans not liking certain players, that's their prerogative. But for the sake of a better discussion, can you list those mistakes at crucial points by Faulk? How many is "too many" mistakes? Be specific.

IMO, Faulk is a playmaker. Here are just some of his recent highlights:

2003: 23 rushes for 80 yards, 8 catches for 108 yards (2 for first downs) versus Houston in a 23-20 overtime win.

2003: 2 point conversion - Super Bowl XXXVIII. Direct snap to Faulk. Put the Pats up 29-22 late in the 4th quarter. (plus he had 6 carries for 42 yards on the night)

2004: AFC Divisional Game vs. Indy - 11 carries for 56 yards

2004: Super Bowl XXXIX - 8 carries for 38 yards.

2005: Week 3 at Pittsburgh, Faulk caught 7 passes for 71 yards, including a 17 yard reception on the game winning drive. Pats won 23-20.

Yes, Faulk fumbles the ball at times - If you don?t like him, you don?t like him, that?s cool, but I think his positives outweigh his negatives. Plus I "trust" the New England coaching staff to decide who their best players are.

Funny, because I see it a different way. Faulk was a real project coming out of college who had to be relentlessly 'coached up' not to fumble the ball. He was involved in the worst play in 2002, the fumble against Green Bay which resulted in losing Stephen Neal for two seasons, and he never really caught on until after that apparent watershed moment when he decided to become a better and smarter player. We got two good solid years out of him, which would be 2003-2004. In 2005, injuries and fumbling, including in the Pittsburg game you mention, seriously brought his value back down to earth. And as of now, I just don't get so thrilled about him as before. He is a very flawed player, whether some at this site want to make stupid comparisons between him and Brady or whoever, at the end of the day he is a liability at times on the field. If he can't be trusted in big games, we should be looking elsewhere.

So then the big question, oh, who could possibly replace our third down back? The answer was Mewelde Moore. I was really bummed that we passed him up in the draft after the Pats scouted him heavily. We easily could have traded up in the fourth round and got him but instead we took such stalwarts as Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam. I was crushed and I am still crushed to this day. The reason Belichick passed on the dangerous running back that he scouted so heavily was that Moore reminded Belichick so much of Kevin Faulk. Bioli isn't perfect, Faulk isn't perfect, but that moment when Minny drafted Moore haunts me like it was yesterday. And it will haunt me every time Faulk lays another stinker and people at this site rush to his defense by saying stuff like, oh, maybe we should cut Brady while we are at it.

 

[Digger44]

How's that a total waste of a first round pick? As I recall one of Maroney's first carries of the regular season was third down draw that went for about 17 yards.

3-5-BUF25 (12:17) (Shotgun) L.Maroney right guard to BUF 3 for 22 yards (T.Vincent).

It's not like the pats are overusing him like Herm did with Curtis or now with LJ.

I personally would like to see more draws on third down with maroney or a swing pass.

People get to tied into specific roles. He's there to make plays, that's a perfect opportunity to make one.

I am not trying to be insulting here, but I need to ask if you comprehend what Kevin Faulks role as a 3rd down back on this team is and what a 3rd down back in the NFL is?

Just because LoMo is in on 3rd down does not mean he is the designated 3rd down back. It is a specific term granted to those RB who primarily play on 3rd down! He is typically a change of pace RB that has excellent hands, but is not designed to carry the regular load of the RB.

According to Wikipedia "Some teams have a running back known as the "third down back", who is more skilled at catching passes than the starting running back on the team, and thus is often put in the game in third down and long situations where a pass is needed to pick up a first down. He can also be used to fool the defense by making them think he is put into the game on for a pass play, but the play is actually a run."

Yes if LoMo plays this position it is a waste of a first round pick. LoMo was picked to be our allstar RB, not a position role such as a 3rd down back. To refer to LoMo as our 3rd down back is either ingnorance or stupidity.

 

[Murphys95]

Funny, because I see it a different way. Faulk was a real project coming out of college who had to be relentlessly 'coached up' not to fumble the ball. He was involved in the worst play in 2002, the fumble against Green Bay which resulted in losing Stephen Neal for two seasons, and he never really caught on until after that apparent watershed moment when he decided to become a better and smarter player. We got two good solid years out of him, which would be 2003-2004. In 2005, injuries and fumbling, including in the Pittsburg game you mention, seriously brought his value back down to earth. And as of now, I just don't get so thrilled about him as before. He is a very flawed player, whether some at this site want to make stupid comparisons between him and Brady or whoever, at the end of the day he is a liability at times on the field. If he can't be trusted in big games, we should be looking elsewhere.

So then the big question, oh, who could possibly replace our third down back? The answer was Mewelde Moore. I was really bummed that we passed him up in the draft after the Pats scouted him heavily. We easily could have traded up in the fourth round and got him but instead we took such stalwarts as Cedric Cobbs and PK Sam. I was crushed and I am still crushed to this day. The reason Belichick passed on the dangerous running back that he scouted so heavily was that Moore reminded Belichick so much of Kevin Faulk. Bioli isn't perfect, Faulk isn't perfect, but that moment when Minny drafted Moore haunts me like it was yesterday. And it will haunt me every time Faulk lays another stinker and people at this site rush to his defense by saying stuff like, oh, maybe we should cut Brady while we are at it.

I agree, this discussion should be about Faulk and only Faulk. I purposely used the Pittsburgh game last season to counter a point made earlier in this thread. Faulk fumbled twice in that game, but he caught a crucial 17 yard pass on the game winning drive against Pittsburgh. A poster earlier said that Faulk's bobble negated his great 4th down catch early in the Colts game. Does his clutch catch on the game winning drive in the Steelers game negate his earlier fumbles that day? I think it's a flawed argument.

It's funny - I don't dispute that Faulk fumbles more than your average player, but I see him as a high risk, high reward Patriot. Again, I don't mind if you or other fans don't like him, or cringe when he's on the field. You have your reasons. But again, I go back to the coaching staff, it's their decision - and I will conclude this post with a recent quote (poignant) by Bill Belichick on Jarvis Green after the Bengals game. I think this says it all:

“Jarvis Green is the Kevin Faulk of the defense, in terms of his production on a per-play basis." - Bill Belichick

 

[Keegs]

oh ok i see how it is.

Now Kevin Faulk belongs in the hall of fame.

When Brady makes great receivers out of mediocre receivers (like everyone says) it's ok when those mediocre recievers leave.

but when it's Kevin Faulk, it's not Brady making him, he's actually a GREAT PLAYER

why don't we just put him in the hall of fame?

Give me a break. We could come up with some good stats for the Boz too.

 

[Seneschal2]

And furthermore, there's no legitimate reason he was in there in that situation over Maroney. None.

So it was a phoney and shallow reason by the coaches?

I don't want to hear this BS about he does such and such better than Maroney. Bullfeathers. Save your amateur film reviews. Save the personnel grouping theories.

OK then -- my lips are sealed...

Best players on the field at crunch time. End of story.

Define best players. If you're thinking of the most athletically gifted, then Maroney and Chad Jackson would be at the top of their respective positions. But from a coaching standpoint, during crunch time you want the players you can rely on most (those who know the offense). If we could somehow ask Brady who are the two most reliable receiving options he currently has available to him, I'm willing to bet he'd choose Troy and Faulk. I'd like to add Watson to the list, but IMO he's still learning.

It's important to consider that during crunch time, you always want the players who will execute the plays called -- not necessarily those who are capable of a 30 yd breakaway (Maroney). Watch the games and you'll see he's still a bit off in his route running, hence making Brady's job more difficult.