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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Lifer, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    We want our kids to know all there is to know about sexuality,right?
    We dont want them in the dark. Then we should tell them, and ourselves, everything.

    http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That website is disgusting (in a "people need to see it" kind of way). I am not pro life for religious reasons, I am pro life for "abortion is a disgusting abomination" reasons.
  3. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    Exactly. You dont have to be religious to see what an abomination this "Choice" really is.
  4. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    If you don't like abortions, don't have one.
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What's weird is how the "pro-life," "anti-medical establishment" media has SO DOMINATED our AIRWAYS, that I CANNOT QUICKLY AND EASILY FIND A CLOSEUP OF LIPSUCTION IN PROGRESS, which makes the parallel argument, if shot in just the right way.

    The argument from "ewwwwww" is much more powerful to us, sitting at home at computers, with all else being equal, than it might be to those seeking out the (as yet) legal medical procedure of abortion.

    By the way, I also gross right out when the egg I'm about to fry is all red with a teeny little red pea in the middle of the yolk.

    PFnV
  6. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    one major difference. its not an egg that you are frying at home and its not lipsuction. But i suppose if thats what you equate a 10 week old fetus or a 20 week old one when someone shows you the ultrasound picture then thats how your mindset is.

    Point being, maybe the ones who someday will seek out the very much legal abortion need to know what they are killing and maybe the ones who thinks its equal to their breakfast could use a reminder as well.
  7. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    While watching the fat being sucked out of someone is gross, watching a living human skull being crushed or tiny human being poisoned to death goes way beyond the ewwww factor. Not a parallel argument at all. And what's the big deal about letting a mother to be see what actually happens in the procedure? Why can't she make up her own mind after seeing what happens. Are you afraid she might choose life? Are people pro-choice or pro abortion?
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Or if I don't like murderers, don't be one - but it's OK if you are.

    :bricks:
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Or how about from the baby's perspective . . . does he like an abortion ? And if not can he choose "not to have one" ? :mad:
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    LMFAO. Comparing seeing fat removed from a person vs. a dead baby ?

    :bricks:
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    That's not what he did; he pointed out the absurdity of the "gross-out" argument.
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the body disgusts you, then I suggest you never get an operation or other medical procedure. No one has an abortion because they like what is done to the fetus, let alone the patient.

    I don't trust right-wing pro-lifers on this one, because they don't care about abortion, they care about their holier-than-though attitude. They want the big hand of government to impose laws on those who are unlike them (women or gays, for instance).

    If they were sincere, they would favor more help for new mothers, pregnant women, impoverished parents, and foster kids. In some countries, pregnant women get three or more months off (with pay) to be with their newborn child, and also get extra time off in the last weeks of their pregnancy or if they adopt a chld. The pro-lifers seldom if ever talk about social programs. They are generally looking for cheap way to convince themselves of their moral superiority.

    You want to get rid abortion? Take away the underlying causes -- poverty, ignorance, fear for their child, etc.
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's not the body nor the dead body, but that the mother chose to have it done to the body.

    Don't forget convenience. Fear for their child ? LMAO.
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, some women have abortions because they don't think they will be able to take care of the child, and don't want to put the child into the hands of abusive relatives or a system they see as abusive.

    But, again, I can see why you'd prefer a law than social programs: You can feel morally superior without it costing you anything at all. Out of curiosity, would you support a 5% tax increase (to fund social programs for women and kids) if the legislation included a law outlawing abortions?
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    So they kill it instead. OK.

    It depends what the "social program" is.

    If it were checks to mothers then absolutely not.
    If it were for group daycare, adoption programs, etc, yes if it were done the right way.

    One note, I wouldn't want a tax increase for this, I don't support any tax increases on anyone. I would pay for it by getting rid of all the crappy spending that's added to bills to send home to re-elect congressmen (but that's another issue; yes I would pay for the above but not through a tax increase).
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Most women who have abortions obviously don't see it as murder.

    So, you would rather kill babies than pay more tax if that tax revenue is not being used the way you think it should be used?
  17. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Sheesh Patters, talk about biggoted stereotyping of a group.......you forgot to mention we just don't want women to have the right to choose. What, I can't believe that a unique human life begins at inception? What kind of a person would I be if knowing that, i just turn my head away form it's killing?The tactic is meant to take away the ignorance of what the procedures actually do to the fetus, baby or whatever politically correct term you choose to use. The biggest underlyng cause for abortions IMO is casual, irresponsible sex that society not only turns its head away from, but encourages in so many ways, be it in movies, music or whatever. Then with the gazillion unwanted pregnacys prevalent today, you want me to have all the sollutions for the aftermath of of the actual birth ready and waiting in a nice little package for you or you'll accuse me of not being sincere about saving the babies.

    Anyway, what is so different with this then the left wanting executions to broadcast live so as to sway public opinion(I'm generally against capital punishment, by the way)?
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I would be fine taking the babies and finding homes for them. I'm certainly not about to write another check to women who can't be trusted to use it where it needs to be used. It's not limited to your two choices.
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course it's not limited to my two choices, but suppose it was. It sounds like you oppose abortion (and gay marriage) because it doesn't affect you. If it hit your wallet, you might be singing a different tune?
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Why is gay marriage in the discussion again ? :confused:

    OK, if I HAD TO choose I would pick the 5% tax increase over mass murder.
  21. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How about 10%?
  22. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not going to play this game all day.
  23. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, let's just stop it at 10%. Again, my feeling is that many of the so-called social conservatives are most adamant about issues that neither affect them personally nor financially. I wonder if you fit in that category. That's what I'm getting at with these questions, and I think your responses are quite telling.
  24. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Well you're being disingenuous with your questions because you're not giving the best options.

    Most of the women you talk about wouldn't provide a good home for their kids if we had a 25% tax for their benefit. I have already stated the kinds of things I would support paying for and they would affect me financially - just because it doesn't fit your narrow Q&A options doesn't invalidate them as responses.
  25. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    He should have just said Iraq.
  26. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    So as human beings, we shouldn't care that a baby is shop-vac'd, or has it's skull crushed. Gotcha. So the only people who should be concerned with a matter is those who are directly affected? Anyone who is not, should STFU and stay out of it. Great! That's some brainstorm logic.

    IS anyone surprised that the solution to Patters is to raise taxes? As if we don't already tax enough. I'm pretty sure we could find enough money inside our $2.7+ Trillion budget to pay for babies. The problem is, you'd have to actually take some benefits away from the lazy to do so. This country is grossly mismanaged and inefficient. We could slash 20% accross the board and still pay for virtually any program we wanted to implement. That people would kill babies over finances is disturbing. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, they should tie the tubes of a woman after an abortion.
  27. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Women don't even like to announce being pregnant 'till the start of the second trimester because its a well known fact that miscarriages happen all the time. Should society treat a second-month miscarriage the same as a 4 year old getting run over by a bus? Wake, funeral, casket, burial etc? If not why do some chose to toss around terms like 'murder' with no discretion?
  28. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't see the relevancy. How a person chooses to handle a corpse which died of natural causes, whether born or not, has nothing to do with choosing a procedure to end a life.
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why don't you go back and actually read what I posted. My point applies to many, but by no means all social conservatives.

    You missed my point again. Let's suppose Lieberman introduced a bill to outlaw abortion and raise taxes by 10%. Let's further suppose that the bill was very carefully crafted (kind of like the immigration bill) and if it was changed at all, it would be defeated. What would you want your Senator to do? In other words, would you be willing to have the government waste another $100 billion or so if it was the only way to stop abortion?
  30. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Despite disagreeing with BelichFan's stance on abortion I have to object to this question on the ground of pointlessness.

    It's like asking "If someone gave you the choice: they can kill you, or they can kill a stranger, would you want the stranger killed?" Well no I wouldn't, but I'd still have to take that over getting killed myself. What's the point of creating a false choice?
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2007

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