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Just another reason we need a shutdown corner

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by drew4008, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. drew4008

    drew4008 In the Starting Line-Up

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    via Two Minute Warning

    Clamping down on the top Wide Receivers

    TMW staff

    The following statistics show how teams have defensed the starting/top two wide receivers of the opposing team throughout the season. All plays where a pass was directed to one of the two "prime target" WR's is counted, with such things as a defensive pass interference call counting as a "completed" pass for the appropriate yardage to fully reflect what took place.

    For the full sortable table : http://www.twominutewarning.com/cb2005.htm


    Defense Rating

    Chicago 60
    Cincinnati 60.3
    Tampa Bay 62.5
    Pittsburgh 63.9
    Carolina 64.2
    Cleveland 66.4
    Minnesota 68.6
    Atlanta 71.4
    New York Jets 73.8
    Washington 73.8
    Jacksonville 73.9
    Green Bay 74.5
    Indianapolis 75.6
    Kansas City 77.1
    New York Giants 77.7
    Denver 79.2
    Dallas 79.6
    Seattle 79.7
    Buffalo 80.6
    Baltimore 81.6
    Detroit 84.7
    San Diego 88.2
    Oakland 89.6
    Miami 90.2
    San Francisco 92.8
    Arizona 93.3
    New Orleans 94
    Philadelphia 94.4
    New England 95.5
    St.Louis 96.9
    Houston 105
    Tennessee 106.8



    Defense Yards

    New York Jets 1280
    Green Bay 1302
    Indianapolis 1515
    New Orleans 1550
    Tampa Bay 1562
    Cleveland 1579
    Chicago 1625
    Jacksonville 1679
    Detroit 1702
    Oakland 1737
    Atlanta 1751
    Pittsburgh 1770
    Arizona 1800
    Philadelphia 1814
    Baltimore 1819
    Washington 1836
    Tennessee 1846
    Carolina 1852
    Dallas 1870
    Minnesota 1893
    Miami 1903
    San Diego 1946
    Cincinnati 1956
    Seattle 1963
    Kansas City 1994
    Buffalo 2044
    St.Louis 2070
    New York Giants 2097
    New England 2185
    Houston 2200
    Denver 2214
    San Francisco 2529



    Defense Completion %

    Pittsburgh 51.7
    Dallas 51.9
    Green Bay 52.5
    Tampa Bay 52.8
    New Orleans 53.5
    Washington 53.7
    Kansas City 53.8
    Chicago 54.3
    New England 54.7
    Denver 56.1
    Carolina 56.2
    New York Giants 56.2
    Minnesota 56.9
    Baltimore 57.1
    Oakland 57.4
    Jacksonville 57.5
    Cleveland 57.6
    Miami 57.7
    Cincinnati 58.3
    Seattle 58.3
    Buffalo 59.1
    Detroit 59.6
    Indianapolis 60
    Atlanta 60.5
    San Francisco 61.2
    Philadelphia 61.4
    Tennessee 61.4
    New York Jets 61.5
    St.Louis 62
    San Diego 62.2
    Houston 63.2
    Arizona 63.4



    Defense Average Yards

    Cleveland 6.4
    New York Jets 6.4
    Chicago 6.6
    Carolina 6.6
    Pittsburgh 6.8
    Atlanta 6.8
    Seattle 6.8
    Minnesota 6.9
    Washington 6.9
    Jacksonville 7
    Indianapolis 7
    Baltimore 7
    Green Bay 7.1
    Denver 7.1
    San Diego 7.1
    Arizona 7.1
    Miami 7.2
    Tampa Bay 7.3
    Kansas City 7.3
    Oakland 7.3
    New York Giants 7.5
    Detroit 7.5
    Cincinnati 7.6
    New Orleans 7.8
    St.Louis 7.8
    Dallas 8
    Buffalo 8
    Philadelphia 8
    New England 8.2
    Tennessee 8.3
    San Francisco 8.8
    Houston 8.9



    Defense TD INT (Alphabetical Order)

    Arizona 13 5
    Atlanta 4 9
    Baltimore 6 3
    Buffalo 8 9
    Carolina 11 17
    Chicago 4 12
    Cincinnati 8 20
    Cleveland 6 11
    Dallas 12 9
    Denver 11 8
    Detroit 10 7
    Green Bay 7 6
    Houston 16 5
    Indianapolis 10 11
    Jacksonville 10 11
    Kansas City 11 9
    Miami 13 4
    Minnesota 12 16
    New England 16 4
    New Orleans 14 4
    New York Giants 13 12
    New York Jets 5 7
    Oakland 9 2
    Philadelphia 13 6
    Pittsburgh 5 10
    San Diego 9 4
    San Francisco 15 10
    Seattle 13 10
    St.Louis 16 6
    Tampa Bay 6 12
    Tennessee 19 5
    Washington 10 9
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2006
  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those numbers are heavily skewed by the injuries we had and the numerous long passes and pass interferences that resulted.
    We did a good job of comp % against top receivers, we just got burned an awful lot.
    These numbers are probably a lot different after Hobbs and Hawkins (safety help is of course an issue on deep balls) were in the lineup.
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Things should get a lot better with

    - Gay returning.
    - Hobbs being a second year guy.
    - Samuel hopefully picking up where he left off, strong at the end.

    There's really only three ways we can lose IMO : Turnovers, constant pressure on Brady and the deep ball.

    That's why I'm in favor of beefing up the OL even more and would take a CB upgrade if the opportunity arose. The three top CB might be good enough but I'd love to get a #1 guy and have them be 2,3,4.
     
  4. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Completion %-

    #1 - Pittsburgh - Deshea Townsend (8th year) and Ike Taylor (3rd year)

    Not exactly shut down corners. The Steelers benefited more from their front 7.

    #2 - Dallas - Anthony Henry (5th year) and Aaron Glenn (12th year)

    Again, not exactly shut down corners. Having Ware, Glover, Ellis, and Williams helped them more.

    #3 - Green Bay - Al Harris (8th year) and Ahmad Caroll (2nd year)

    Yet again - not shut down corners.

    #4 - Tampa Bay - Ronde Barber (9th year) and Brian Kelly (8th year)

    Ah, yes, finally a 'shut down' corner! (But let's not forget about Rice and Brooks)

    #5 - New Orleans - Mike McKenzie (7th year) and Fred Thomas (10th year)

    Same old, same old.

    #6 - Washington - Shawn Springs (9th year) and Carlos Rogers (1st year)

    Springs - yes. Rogers - in the future...possibly.

    #7 - Kansas City - Patrick Surtain (8th year) and Eric Warfield (8th year)

    Now we're talking.

    #8 - Chicago - Charles Tillman (3rd year) and Nathan Vasher (2nd year).

    Nope.

    #9 - New England - Asante Samuel (3rd year) and Ellis Hobbs (1st year).
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A lot of it is philosophy and scheme also.
    If you are a conservative D you will have a high comp % but a low yards per catch.
    If you are aggressive comp % will be lower but yards per catch better.

    You have to look at both factors together.

    For example a team could play a style that allows 63% complete but only 6 yards per attempt, while the same team could play a different style and get 53 and 8. Which is better? Hard to say. It would depend on the kind of offense you have, the game situations you played in, and most importantly what those stats meant on the scoreboard.

    A team that gives up a few long plays but wins the game isnt hurt by those long plays. A team that gives up a high comp % but bends and doensnt break doesnt get hurt.
    Analyzing these stats means if you arent good at both, the stats arent too informative (or bad at both). Since no team plays a specific scheme in every situation, I think you would find more success in Ds that are about or above average in both moreso than high in one, low in the other.

    Also if there is one thing the 2005 Pats D tells us about stats is that they are an AVERAGE. Had the PAts needed to beat Miami and played better o O vs Carolina and KC, the same D stats would have resulted in numbers that look bad but were good enough 13 times and killed us 3.
    If a team plays 12 good games of defense and 4 terrible ones, goes 12-4 and ends up in the bottom third of defensive stats, is that really a bad D?
     
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Shutdown corner is the most worn-out phrase in the NFL, narrowly beating out high ankle sprain and road-grader.

    It's used so often it's lost all meaning. How many "shutdown" corners are in the league today? With the new rules favoring receivers, I submit zero. In fact, the only guys in the league who have been shutdown corners at any point in their career are probably Charles Woodson, Ty Law, Chris McAllister, and Champ Bailey. If Deion's still in the league you can add him to the list.

    None of them I would call "shutdown" corners today, due to age and the new rules emphasis. Maybe in time Artrell Rolle or Carlos Rogers can be that guy.
     
  7. PatsWorldChamps

    PatsWorldChamps Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    agreed.

    The OP probably didnt have the data, but, id like to see the same stats for our last 8 games, as opposed to the whole 16. they would be significantly different.
     

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